Assistant Coach Tramel Barnes Leaving for Job at Utah

[LetsGoRabbits]

PLEASE let there be NO misunderstandings here

i am NOT attempting to say that you said or intended ANYTHING wrong!!! without question the point you raise has validity!! but i am sure that THIS SCHOOL hired him to be the best coach and person he can be.

are there some doors that MIGHT potentially be little more OPEN. i am sure that cannot be denied. but i want to hope and believe that this can be overcome and can become a thing of the past.

there were ZERO Af American coaches on staff when Chis White and Tony Matthews were recruited out of indiana and illinois respectively. i am not positive there was when Tevin was recruited either.

i think i could give evidence to oppose this whole concept in regard to almost every African American MBB we have had. but regardless i really would love to hope and believe ( and basically i DO BELIEVE) at least within the HUGE majority of the jackrabbit community that we do NOT believe it is a NECESSITY to have black coaches for black players and white coaches for white players

i will not go on further and i really do not know how much i will comment about it IF and WHEN comments are made. and i am NOT trying to be political. this SHOULD NOT be a politically determined belief. it is a fact. i believe what MLK wanted is still the answer. let people be judged by their character and NOTHING else

it appears the jacks made an excellent hire!!! i welcome Coach Marshall and his family with open arms and wish them all the best!!!!

I fully believe hendo intended and believed he did hire THE BEST COACH not the best african american coach. i trust that is what was attempted and accomplished

i am NOT NOT NOT trying to imply that you meant ANYTHING different grizzled!!! just really hoping that within this particular community that i love so much that we can have this HUGELY MOSTLY RIGHT!!! unfortunately i dont think perfection is ever a realistic goal even about this, which seems so obvious. but i do believe in the jackrabbit community and i believe this is how most of us look at people

[JACKGUYII]

WTF?

[Grizzled_Jack]

Certainly didn't mean to imply that the new hire was strictly for recruiting and not a good coach on his own or that coaching was somehow sorted by race. I did have a conversation with Brad Soderberg before he left Lindenwood and he indicated that recruitment into Brookings was a problem in the nineties. That was a long time ago, pre Internet and D1 and I didn't follow the Jacks other than checking scores in the papers and watching their title game in the mid Eighties. What was the first assistant coach hire when UST went D1? The Tommies realized that a successful D3 recruiting strategy won't cut it in the Summit I think throwing a wider recruiting net is going to be necessary to get things to the next level. I've seen comments on here that recruitment should concentrate on South Dakota and adjoining states. I respect that opinion but don't agree with it. If the new coach was making contacts in the Horizon that's a good thing. I've said nice things about Soderberg on here before and picked up some negative comments about him, wasn't following the Jacks at that time, know him only at St Louis where he got canned despite a winning record and at Lindenwood where he transitioned them out of the NAIA. Again his experience was almost three decades ago and times change. Also, Ben Walker was an assistant coach when King was a freshman. Don't know who recruited him. IIRC Walker had some Iowa Juco coaching experience as well as Jackson State.

[LetsGoRabbits]

i very much appreciate you taking the comment in stride grizzled!!!! i absolutely did NOT think that you implied OR intended ANYTHING remotely negative!!!! i just thought that your comments could be open for interpretation in a negative manner.

i absolutely think that Marshall looks like an awesome hire. playing on one of the championship game teams from Butler and scoring almost 1400 points at that school. definitely does not hurt, and coming from illinois chicago U hopefully means that he will have at least a little bit of a leg up on chicago area connections. and to your point about the sdsu recruiting footprint it has always been largely SD and MN but they have always recruited the chicago area. so hopefully this helps them strengthen what has been a good, fruitful, and long standing tradition

Of course coach nagy was from basically chicago and his dad had LOTS of chicago area connections as long time U of illinois assistant. i am sure there are plenty players i will not think of but off top of my head, George marshall was a chicago kid. also steve holdren. earlier under nagy i think turk watson was a near chicago kid but i might be wrong on that. and like i said i am undoubtedly forgetting some

before coach nagy ironically with him being so connected to the chicago area, i think the chicago connection was even stronger but i wil not remember all of them at this moment either and i am not doing research)) at least not now. but Bill Cartwright was a big time chicagoland recruit before injuries helped him to end up at state. tony matthews also chicago

i know i have named only a few but chicago has been the most common location for the jacks to recruit outside SD and neighboring states. maybe later today i will research the list

but i really do NOT think the recruiting footprint for SDSU MBB has changed since move to D1.. always heavily SD and MN maybe now they look more at the twin cities as part of MN but have never gotten too many players from the cities. perhaps the new league member opens some doors.again i am sure there are more but Matt Caldwell is by far the most significant twin city area recruit that i can remember. STILL get bummed thinking what could have been with him. TOO BAD we were in the middle of the dark days when he was here. i think he could have really been an all timer.

today St Cloud is almost a suburb of twin cities. of course Nate is st cloud kid

they have always had some iowa but definitely more in last 10 to 15 years. although they missed a great one with the van ginkel kid from rock valley. he now plays FB for the dolphins. but he was a 6 ft 5 high school QB and PG and scored over 40 routinely in his senior year in NW IA playing some of the best competition around. think he had over 40 every playoff game his senior year. he badly wanted to come to sdsu to play hoops

think the biggest change is the very significant recruiting in NE. we have had a couple decent players from NE recently))

think the jacks are recruiting exactly where they always intended also including wisconsin, where they basically started recruiting in the 90s. believe cory van der wettering was the first significant badgerland recruit. Schuetz was a big one and now of course Arians. of course we had a few others who never got a shot under the previous administration

and including chicago

[JACKGUYII]

Since the purpose of an African American coach is to recruit black players, the new incumbent's background in the Horizon League should come in more handy than Mr. Barne's background in the NSIC, not that Barne's future isn't bright in a P5 conference. Looking forward to seeing some more Chicagoland-Indiana recruits. Marshall needs his own thread. IMO this is a good hire. Now find another Tevin King, possibly my favorite Jacks player of all time.

I wish this post would be deleted immediately.

[Jacked_Up]

I wish this post would be deleted immediately.

I second that suggestion.

[NWHSUandSDSU]

I second that suggestion.

I third that.

[bigticket1]

I third that.

To be honest, everything after the third post in the thread could be deleted.

[jakejc795]

I wish this post would be deleted immediately.

Thank you for posting this. Even the mention of Tevin King, one of my all-time favorite Jacks MBB players, didn't redeem that prejudicial post.

[filbert]

I wish this post would be deleted immediately.

I find GrizzledJack's first sentence in his first post unfortunate.

A thought to ponder over the Independence Day Weekend: Not tolerating intolerance is all the rage (literally, in some circles) these days. But what really constitutes intolerance?

[jakejc795]

I find GrizzledJack's first sentence in his first post unfortunate.

A thought to ponder over the Independence Day Weekend: Not tolerating intolerance is all the rage (literally, in some circles) these days. But what really constitutes intolerance?

Ironic that the toleration of intolerance is linked to Independence Day. Had our forebears embraced British intolerance toward their colonial subjects, we'd likely not have a holiday to celebrate.

It's decidely more than "unfortunate" to limit one's utility to a team to that of recruiting players of one's own race as Grizzled's first post did (notice he "walked it back" considerably afterward).

Is your argument that criticizing the post is some form of "responsive intolerance"? If so, how would you propose differing sides engage in a debate?

I interpreted JackGuyII's post as one that sought to reduce prejudice among fans. Now, had he demanded, rather than wished, for deletion (or sought Grizzled's banishment), I suppose the argument could be made that it'd be an example of "cancel culture," "virtue signaling," or whatever phrase is currently en vogue.

[filbert]

Ironic that the toleration of intolerance is linked to Independence Day. Had our forebears embraced British intolerance toward their colonial subjects, we'd likely not have a holiday to celebrate.

It's decidely more than "unfortunate" to limit one's utility to a team to that of recruiting players of one's own race as Grizzled's first post did (notice he "walked it back" considerably afterward).

You have succinctly summarized why the statement could be considered unfoutunate.

Is your argument that criticizing the post is some form of "responsive intolerance"?

Criticizing the statement is debate. Calling for its deletion (or wishing for its deletion) is not debate.

If so, how would you propose differing sides engage in a debate?

I interpreted JackGuyII's post as one that sought to reduce prejudice among fans. Now, had he demanded, rather than wished, for deletion (or sought Grizzled's banishment), I suppose the argument could be made that it'd be an example of "cancel culture," "virtue signaling," or whatever phrase is currently en vogue.

As a board moderator I viewed it as a request, and one I was disinclined to satisfy. I am open to the possibility that my even addressing it at all was an overreaction however.

[LetsGoRabbits]

Criticizing the comment HOPEFULLY opens the door to a conversation

conversation allows for better understanding and hopefully growth and change

simply dismissing people and putting labels on them brings conversation to a stop. and if conversation is not possible then HOW can people examine their own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs through ANY lense beyond their OWN thoughts, feelings, and beliefs??

dismissing people and thoughts simply leads to everyone living in rigidly guarded camps surrounded ONLY by people who support and reinforce all of the same ideas. change becomes not quite impossible but extremely hard and rare

that all said, i do not know grizzled, but i was willing at least to give him the benefit of the doubt because i have NEVER seen anything to support the type of thinking that the first sentence suggests. i was hoping that opening the door to further conversation would allow clarification as well as maybe opening the door to actual conversation instead of just finger pointing and filing people and thoughts under the headings of good OR bad

people are more complicated than good OR bad. the very best of us still make lots of mistakes and the very worst of us still have value and beauty. if i am required to dismiss every person and idea that does not support the ideas i already have. then i can never truly examine any of my ideas. ideas that are true and valuable are able to withstand the light of examination and discussion. the banishment of conversation allows harmful ideas to live within the walls of their own rigidly guarded encampment

[jakejc795]

Criticizing the comment HOPEFULLY opens the door to a conversation

conversation allows for better understanding and hopefully growth and change

simply dismissing people and putting labels on them brings conversation to a stop. and if conversation is not possible then HOW can people examine their own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs through ANY lense beyond their OWN thoughts, feelings, and beliefs??

dismissing people and thoughts simply leads to everyone living in rigidly guarded camps surrounded ONLY by people who support and reinforce all of the same ideas. change becomes not quite impossible but extremely hard and rare

that all said, i do not know grizzled, but i was willing at least to give him the benefit of the doubt because i have NEVER seen anything to support the type of thinking that the first sentence suggests. i was hoping that opening the door to further conversation would allow clarification as well as maybe opening the door to actual conversation instead of just finger pointing and filing people and thoughts under the headings of good OR bad

people are more complicated than good OR bad. the very best of us still make lots of mistakes and the very worst of us still have value and beauty. if i am required to dismiss every person and idea that does not support the ideas i already have. then i can never truly examine any of my ideas. ideas that are true and valuable are able to withstand the light of examination and discussion. the banishment of conversation allows harmful ideas to live within the walls of their own rigidly guarded encampment

As stated previously, I didn't see JGII's comment as a demand to delete or ban, and I agree that doing so eliminates opportunities for discussion/clarification.

Having said that, the oft-repeated justification for "unfortunate" comments is the 1st Amendment/freedom of speech, and while those freedoms exist, said freedom does not negate meting consequences from said speech. Do I think the comment should be deleted? Not necessarily. Do I think it is grossly more than "unfortunate"? Definitely, and criticism of the original comment is warranted.

If we want to focus on the athletic, rather than ethical, considerations of such "the purpose" comments -- Let's say you were the parent of a minority recruit considering SDSU, and you read Grizzled's original post, would that leave you discinclined to encourage your son/daughter to consider SDSU or at least cause you to question the motives of the coaching staff and how welcoming fans might be? Moreover, the argument can be made that such comments undercut any influence, other than recruiting other minorities, that Coach Marshall might have.

What's "unfortunate" to me is that I don't recall Grizzled making similar comments about someone like Joe Krabbenhoft only being hired to recruit similar well-to-do white athletes.

[jakejc795]

You have succinctly summarized why the statement could be considered unfoutunate.



Criticizing the statement is debate. Calling for its deletion (or wishing for its deletion) is not debate.



As a board moderator I viewed it as a request, and one I was disinclined to satisfy. I am open to the possibility that my even addressing it at all was an overreaction however.

Again, I took the "wish" as a beginning of two potential debates. First, we could focus on the propriety/ethics of the "purpose" post (which I did).

That seems to have been subsumed by the potential second debate (whether the post should actually be deleted). You seem to have focused on the latter, which I suppose is understandble given board moderatorship