GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

Every fan base has its tools, yes. But not all tool's are created equally.

My issue with USD fans isnt their ass****'s at some games. My issue stems from the fact that their students, alumni, and entire fan base are just saturated in apathty. It's like the glue that holds them all together. They don't care about much else besides beating SDSU. And if there isn't much of a chance of that happening, you won't hear much at all from them. They will talk **** and act superior the second they have something to talk about, but they'll slink away when the going gets tough. They are jealous of us, and now they've followed the bison into conspiracy land on the cramps, the officiating at games, the unfair nature of the summit, etc. The only thing louder than their indifference for all but five days a year is their whining about the unfair breaks they think we get. They've had their hopes and dreams crushed so many times now, they've started to cast blame at the universe, , the Argus, the NCAA officating, etc., just so they don't have to face the reality that they haven't beaten us in football for 17 years, that it's been 6 straight in DI, they haven't won in Brookings for men's BB since Christ was a kid, and that despite their best year in DI for men's BB, we still outnumbered them 4 to 1 in fans at the conference tournament.

They exist to "hate state", and they cry about their inferiority that is no one's fault but their own, and Jim Abbott's, circa 2004.

They're pathetic as a fanbase.

I cannot figure out why more of their fans don't show up at the SLT. They had a fantastic team that could have qualified for the NCAA tournament.

Unless I had a wedding or funeral, I am at that game. Come to think of it, unless its MY wedding or funeral, I'm at that game.

[SoDakJack]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

I cannot figure out why more of their fans don't show up at the SLT. They had a fantastic team that could have qualified for the NCAA tournament.

Unless I had a wedding or funeral, I am at that game. Come to think of it, unless its MY wedding or funeral, I'm at that game.

I said the exact same thing about our fanbase when it came to late-season/playoff football games.

[BTownJack]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

I said the exact same thing about our fanbase when it came to late-season/playoff football games.

We are a basketball school, through and through. It has always been that way and it will always be that way.

[SoDakJack]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

We are a basketball school, through and through. It has always been that way and it will always be that way.

I realize this, but people were judging entire fanbases as "pathetic" for not showing up to big games. I am just saying we shouldn't throw stones when we have a few glass houses of our own.

[Nidaros]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

I watched the USD press conference and those two players Mooney and Hagedorn were about to break out in tears as was Coach Smith. They all wanted a win and did not get it, and their fan base though full of tools bares some responsibility for not showing up. Maybe I am a tool for SDSU, certainly not the sharpest, but I TOOL away. Losing is not easy when they wanted it so much. Defense for SDSU, as has been mentioned, stepped up a great deal since Jan 24th. Lets hope we can get our first big dance victory. We are overdue.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

The "pathetic" comment was more in reference to their apathy as a fan base and their recent blaming of everyone else but themselves for their apparent lack of success. It's the refs, or Tom Douple, or God that has been holding them back if you ask them.

I'm on record as being incredibly disappointed in our football attendence. It was sad, and perhaps calling any school's fan support at a postseason tournament is a bit hypocritical.

But what I do know is that in the SLT, with two championship caliber teams located 45 miles each from the premier center, their fans were outnumbered at least 4 to 1. And as terrible as our home playoff attendence is, we have no idea how they'd draw at home in December because they haven't earned the right to do so.

If they draw 10,000 in December some year and fill up the dome, we can come back to this post about glass houses and I'll willingly eat my crow. My opinion on home football playoff attendence was always that this was more of a State of South Dakota and a culure problem than just SDSU fans. If the Yotes someday prove otherwise, so be it. My betting money is that they'll run into the same issue, even with an indoor stadium, if that day ever comes.

SDSU isn't just a basketball school, South Dakota is a basketball state. And I think the support of the SLT, and both women's programs, prove that.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

I said the exact same thing about our fanbase when it came to late-season/playoff football games.

Late season games are (often) cold. Its easy to hunker down at home to watch on TV. SDSU football late-season/playoff attendance is a fair weather fan problem.

USD fans didn't show up for an indoor game against their rival with the freaking NCAA tournament on the line. This is not a fair weather fan problem...

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

The "pathetic" comment was more in reference to their apathy as a fan base and their recent blaming of everyone else but themselves for their apparent lack of success. It's the refs, or Tom Douple, or God that has been holding them back if you ask them.

I'm on record as being incredibly disappointed in our football attendence. It was sad, and perhaps calling any school's fan support at a postseason tournament is a bit hypocritical.

But what I do know is that in the SLT, with two championship caliber teams located 45 miles each from the premier center, their fans were outnumbered at least 4 to 1. And as terrible as our home playoff attendence is, we have no idea how they'd draw at home in December because they haven't earned the right to do so.

If they draw 10,000 in December some year and fill up the dome, we can come back to this post about glass houses and I'll willingly eat my crow. My opinion on home football playoff attendence was always that this was more of a State of South Dakota and a culure problem than just SDSU fans. If the Yotes someday prove otherwise, so be it. My betting money is that they'll run into the same issue, even with an indoor stadium, if that day ever comes.

SDSU isn't just a basketball school, South Dakota is a basketball state. And I think the support of the SLT, and both women's programs, prove that.

It wouldn't be really fair to compare our football playoff attendance to theirs because of the outdoor/indoor factor. The fact that it's cold in early December affects the attendance big time for our playoff games.


As far as the Summit, it's really kind of sad how they supported both teams this year. The SLT is an apples to apples comparison.

[filbert]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

The USD fans sitting right in front of us this year were good people (although they were wearing that hideous red).

One thing to remember (old-timers can fact-check me on this) is that USD's crowds at games playing SDSU in Sioux Falls during the D-II days (NCC Holiday, etc.) were never as big as SDSU's. Never. It was always at most 60-40 if I recall correctly.

SDSU has a larger enrollment than USD, and a *much* larger undergraduate enrollment. Since most people form their college affiliations based on where they attended as an undergraduate, this means that SDSU's actual active fan base is bigger.

From the SDBOR 2018 Factbook, Fall headcount enrollment was 12,527 for SDSU and 10,261 for USD; on-campus headcount was 10,198 SDSU, 7,033 USD; graduate ("Graduate, First Professional & GR non-degree-seeking") total enrollment was 1,791 SDSU, 2,613 USD, and more of USD's graduate students are (I speculate) off-campus (the med school's footprint in Sioux Falls for instance).

So smaller total enrollment combined with larger graduate enrollment means fewer undergraduates on campus, and fewer graduates each year out in the world and potential rabid fans.

Add that to a consideration of the levels of athletic success (post-season appearances/performances) of SDSU and USD football (favors SDSU), men's basketball (favors SDSU), women's basketball (favoring SDSU) means that casual fans with no other association to either institution will, all things being equal, tend to gravitate more to SDSU than to USD. People like successful programs, and the more success, the more people like them. I give you as an extreme example the NDSU football following.

So, in summary, there's both a structural reason (disparity in number of undergrads) and a recent-athletic-success reason why there aren't as many USD fans as SDSU fans. Both of those could of course change in the future but for now it is what it is.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

The USD fans sitting right in front of us this year were good people (although they were wearing that hideous red).

One thing to remember (old-timers can fact-check me on this) is that USD's crowds at games playing SDSU in Sioux Falls during the D-II days (NCC Holiday, etc.) were never as big as SDSU's. Never. It was always at most 60-40 if I recall correctly.

SDSU has a larger enrollment than USD, and a *much* larger undergraduate enrollment. Since most people form their college affiliations based on where they attended as an undergraduate, this means that SDSU's actual active fan base is bigger.

From the SDBOR 2018 Factbook, Fall headcount enrollment was 12,527 for SDSU and 10,261 for USD; on-campus headcount was 10,198 SDSU, 7,033 USD; graduate ("Graduate, First Professional & GR non-degree-seeking") total enrollment was 1,791 SDSU, 2,613 USD, and more of USD's graduate students are (I speculate) off-campus (the med school's footprint in Sioux Falls for instance).

So smaller total enrollment combined with larger graduate enrollment means fewer undergraduates on campus, and fewer graduates each year out in the world and potential rabid fans.

Add that to a consideration of the levels of athletic success (post-season appearances/performances) of SDSU and USD football (favors SDSU), men's basketball (favors SDSU), women's basketball (favoring SDSU) means that casual fans with no other association to either institution will, all things being equal, tend to gravitate more to SDSU than to USD. People like successful programs, and the more success, the more people like them. I give you as an extreme example the NDSU football following.

So, in summary, there's both a structural reason (disparity in number of undergrads) and a recent-athletic-success reason why there aren't as many USD fans as SDSU fans. Both of those could of course change in the future but for now it is what it is.

Good points. People like winners and well, we've been winning against USD more than they have.

Also, to take things a little further, I think SDSU resonates more with people in South Dakota. It's the ag college and a large percentage of the state is driven by agriculture. Many of the city folks in South Dakota have roots that go back to small towns and agriculture.

[Nidaros]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

Good points. People like winners and well, we've been winning against USD more than they have.

Also, to take things a little further, I think SDSU resonates more with people in South Dakota. It's the ag college and a large percentage of the state is driven by agriculture. Many of the city folks in South Dakota have roots that go back to small towns and agriculture.

There has been a disparity between fans for a long time, long before the Dakota Dome, when USD played in ROTC Gym or something like that. There were fist fights to keep SDSU fans away from the game, that is how inferior they have been. I think they were worse then.

In 1965 in Brookings, I witnessed SDSU students throwing apple cores at the USD team standing in a timeout huddle.That was not our proudest moment since Jim Iverson had been axed earlier in the season and Jim Marking took over. We stunk that year, two years after winning the NC. I do recall we won that game. The one USD player picked up a core and threw up in SDSU reserve section which was right behind the table where score officals sat. I dont blame this guy as they did not have the technical foul rule for throwing things back in 1965. I am describing how things were done at the barn. There has always been this attempt to equalize or exert the superiority of USD, which is not very geniune and they often fall short as they did in this year's SL tourney. Any one for a Joose?

[Nidaros]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

There has been a disparity between fans for a long time, even long before the Dakota Dome, when USD played in ROTC Gym or something like that. There were fist fights to keep SDSU fans away from the game, that is how inferior they have been. I think they were worse then.

Although 1965 in Brookings, I witnessed SDSU students throwing apple cores at the USD team standing in a timeout huddle.That was not our proudest moment since Jim Iverson had been axed earlier in the season and Jim Marking took over. We stunk that year, two years after winning the NC. I do recall we won that game. The one USD player picked up a core and threw up in SDSU reserve section which was right behind the table where score officals sat. I am describing how things were done at the barn. There has always been this attempt to equalize or exert the superiority of USD, which is not very geniune and they often fall short as they did in this year's SL tourney. Any one for a Joose?

I might explain, that the Letterman Club used to use the concessions to finance their scholarships and often you would see football letter winners carting around a big wooden box of apples and one would cart the box and the other would throw the apples to the fans waving for them. His job was also to catch the dimes and quarters thrown down to the apple seller. Thank goodness we have progressed from those days. Also students would often smuggle half pints into the game, and they had only one or two old cops whose job it was to catch the wrong doingers with the half pints. Interesting.

[Crashola]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

Good points. People like winners and well, we've been winning against USD more than they have.

Also, to take things a little further, I think SDSU resonates more with people in South Dakota. It's the ag college and a large percentage of the state is driven by agriculture. Many of the city folks in South Dakota have roots that go back to small towns and agriculture.

I think you are right that it is a combination of these things. I would be interested to know how many State and U alumni reside in South Dakota. And for people with no connection to the schools, I think a much larger majority of the state's college sports fans connect with SDSU for the reasons you stated.

And definitely a culture problem in Vermillion. I spent three years there in law school and, unless SDSU was in town, you could always count on the students to wander in late and leave early.

[slosho]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

https://twitter.com/ryan_knudson28/s...74024402718722

So the picture of #3 in this seems slimmer then the #3 that played in the Blow out Semifinal win. Couple that with the Comment From DJJ in one of the recent interviews of TJ believing in everybody "even when a teammate didn't pass a fitness test" leads me to postulate if there's a correlation between what I think I see and the amount of playing time.

[Carolina010]

Re: GDT: Jacks vs. Yotes - SLT (M) Championship

So the picture of #3 in this seems slimmer then the #3 that played in the Blow out Semifinal win. Couple that with the Comment From DJJ in one of the recent interviews of TJ believing in everybody "even when a teammate didn't pass a fitness test" leads me to postulate if there's a correlation between what I think I see and the amount of playing time.

Our group thought the same thing about Howell. He looked like a completely different person this year than last. Last year he seems thinner but more muscle. This year when he got in Monday night he looked like the pulled him from the stand and gave him a jersey.