News regarding the Dykhouse Center

[zooropa]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

Zoo...just to orient my answer back to the original question, which was, why did Augie build a "whole" stadium for twice as much as Dykhouse Center. I tried to point out some of the differences...that's all. I heard the figures, but were second-hand (but by a knowledgeable person). I assume somebody could find them as it would be a public record. And I just wanted to clarify some of the numbers being thrown around. As I pointed out, it is a building that belongs to the state...hence it will get state review, rightly enough. IMO though, there's a big of overreaching at the top of the food chain. End of input.

I worked for an architect about ten years ago. He was always hoping that he'd be able to take the plans down to the city inspector's office and get them back with NO redlines on them.

For a while I shared his optimism.

Then I realized that it's the inspector's job to put red lines on things, and therefore, they're always going to be there---even if they're for minor and trifling things.

[Chains]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

Thanks WSR for the input. Nidaros, there MAY be more money coming, but no guarantees at this point. President Chicoine was asking for the money to get the project on the list, when and if, money becomes available.

The higher fees for state buildings has to do with basically several things. Private money is building the building, but the state owns it, and thus requires standards for the construction of the building, and a lot of red tape. State engineer gets involved, and getting architects, builders, etc. to jump through all the hoops, drives the time delay and thus costs up. It's a shame, but unless the legislature and/or governor jumps in, it will continue. Private schools can cut the corners they want to cut, set their own standards, move the project on their own timetable. A big advantage. I do know that Dana Dykhouse was extremely disappointed on how long and how much money it took to get the project going. As a result, the decision was made to build the building, but bare bones the furnishings, etal. That's why the drive continues to get money to furnish it.

This is all pretty sad. So, tell me - why would someone want to donate millions knowing he or she was not going get the value he expected? Maybe the state / government should run our health care system?

GBGBGJ

[Nidaros]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

Thanks WSR for the input. Nidaros, there MAY be more money coming, but no guarantees at this point. President Chicoine was asking for the money to get the project on the list, when and if, money becomes available.

The higher fees for state buildings has to do with basically several things. Private money is building the building, but the state owns it, and thus requires standards for the construction of the building, and a lot of red tape. State engineer gets involved, and getting architects, builders, etc. to jump through all the hoops, drives the time delay and thus costs up. It's a shame, but unless the legislature and/or governor jumps in, it will continue. Private schools can cut the corners they want to cut, set their own standards, move the project on their own timetable. A big advantage. I do know that Dana Dykhouse was extremely disappointed on how long and how much money it took to get the project going. As a result, the decision was made to build the building, but bare bones the furnishings, etal. That's why the drive continues to get money to furnish it.

This is one time where I started to read an article in the Brookings Register and did not finish reading it and obviously I did not grasp the nature of President's appearance before the Brookings City Council, which I suppose does not happen very often.

I am very concerned about the financing of the CAS, finishing Dykhouse and the indoor practice facility. I wish we would hear more about what is going on. I do think Augustana is very fortunate to have Bob Hall, and Augie should be grateful for every dead aniamal that Bob's father hauled away. He had a rendering business I believe.

[jackdaniel]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

This is one time where I started to read an article in the Brookings Register and did not finish reading it and obviously I did not grasp the nature of President's appearance before the Brookings City Council, which I suppose does not happen very often.

I am very concerned about the financing of the CAS, finishing Dykhouse and the indoor practice facility. I wish we would hear more about what is going on. I do think Augustana is very fortunate to have Bob Hall, and Augie should be grateful for every dead aniamal that Bob's father hauled away. He had a rendering business I believe.

You mean all the dead animals after a USD vs SDSU contest?

[joeboo22]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

when it comes to funding especially athletics it is what it is.... everyone thinks everyone else should pay for it... students don't think they should have to pay for it in increased student fees... parents and average citizens think that funding academics should be a priority over athletics... so it basically comes down to big pocket donors and corporate money, which a lot of times (not always) comes with strings attached.... should a state college have a sporting facility with Sanford's name on it when they have academic programs through Avera? and other things like that.... Finding the money is hard then you need to make sure that the money won't affect other money...

[zooropa]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

If memory serves, raising student fees to improve Coughlin is already pre-empted by either BoR rules or state laws that came about during the height of the D-1 paranoia. SDSU can't increase the activity fee to pay for athletic improvements.

[HoboD]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

1) Again, do you have any source for how much it cost to meet the state's specs for this project?

2) If the state's engineer doesn't approve the building specs, who should? What other office should be responsible for saying, "This project meets our minimum expectations"? Should the donor himself be allowed to approve the design? What if the donor's an idiot when it comes to those things?

3) You raise a valid point: The state owns the building.

Ask the Sioux Falls public works department how much they enjoy maintaining all the substandard infrastructure in Norton Acres, Orchard Heights, etc.

If the state will be maintaining the building for the next 40+ years, IMO, they have every right to set certain standards for construction.

4) Looking at the USF boondoggle down at 69th & Cliff, I wouldn't say that SDSU would benefit from the looser controls present at private schools.....

BTW: I'm not trying to be argumentative---I'd just like to know what you think would be a better solution than what's in place---- IMO, there would be some real disadvantages to having no particular standards for new construction (well, apart from meeting the UBC).

Let me give you some facts. Here are the fees paid on both the Dykehouse and the Wellness Center.

Dykhouse Costs:

Construction Costs (Estimated since the final change order cost is unknown): $5,483,181
Koch Hazard Architects: $557,218.54 (LEED Silver)
Estimated OSE fees: $38,997 ($33,248 spent to date - probably will be a little higher)
Estimated SDSU eng. fees: $38,997 (probably will be a bit higher)


SDSU Wellness Center Costs:

Construction Costs: $10,958,382
EAPC Architects/Eng: $649,372.73 (not LEED)
OSE fees: $57,486.00
SDSU eng fees: $122,514.00

Sunkota was the contractor on both projects.

The architechtural fees are in line with what private entities pay for new buildings. They are not out of line. Please note that the Dykehouse is required, as are all new state buildings to meet the LEED Silver certification. (LEED is a international set of standards for environmentally friendly, sustainable buildingss) While LEED buildings are somewhat more expensive to design and build, the lower heating and cooling costs more then make up the difference over the life of the building.

As for the delays in the project. Originally 6 million was available for the project. Thats what was requested in authority from the legislature by SDSU. When the bids came in they were over the 6 million by around 250K. In order to keep the project moving the decision was made to cut out some items (like carpet and furniture) initially and go get additional authority from the legislature to finish the building since those things wouldnt be added in until the end of the project anyway. That was done and the legislature approved the additional authority. Thus, by this procedure, the project has been moving along and has been on schedule per the contract entered into last fall. It is scheduled for completion in Oct. or early Nov. Yes, Dana and others would have liked to have had the building done by the start of football, but as you can see from the pictures posted elsewhere it is a big building and it will be done in about a year from the time construction started which is a reasonable construction schedule.

[Nidaros]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

You mean all the dead animals after a USD vs SDSU contest?

No, farm animals. When they died a few decades back, a rendering service was called and they haul them away and took them to a place that grounded them up into what was called tankage and was subsequently fed to hogs. Bob Hall's father made a fortune with this business decades ago near the Stockyards I believe. Now days with better health control and less animal deaths and less family farms, this business is not as profitable as it was for Bob Hall's family. Bob Hall inherited the family fortune that is now part of the gift to Augustana. It has nothing to do with SDSU VS USD nor SDSU vs Augie. Its an animal of a different color. I suspect Sioux Falls Rendering may have picked up a few rabbits after the Augie SDSU games, who knows.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

I just got back from an Augie practice (Bob was in his golf cart, as usual). Kirkeby-Over is just a great stadium. Possibly the nicest stadium in all of D2 and probably 3/4 of FCS and even a few in FBS. Augie has it rolling right now. Great facilities and some really top notch coaches. Brad Salem is just a great guy and he has a bright future.

[Nidaros]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

Let me give you some facts. Here are the fees paid on both the Dykehouse and the Wellness Center.

Dykhouse Costs:

Construction Costs (Estimated since the final change order cost is unknown): $5,483,181
Koch Hazard Architects: $557,218.54 (LEED Silver)
Estimated OSE fees: $38,997 ($33,248 spent to date - probably will be a little higher)
Estimated SDSU eng. fees: $38,997 (probably will be a bit higher)


SDSU Wellness Center Costs:

Construction Costs: $10,958,382
EAPC Architects/Eng: $649,372.73 (not LEED)
OSE fees: $57,486.00
SDSU eng fees: $122,514.00

Sunkota was the contractor on both projects.

The architechtural fees are in line with what private entities pay for new buildings. They are not out of line. Please note that the Dykehouse is required, as are all new state buildings to meet the LEED Silver certification. (LEED is a international set of standards for environmentally friendly, sustainable buildingss) While LEED buildings are somewhat more expensive to design and build, the lower heating and cooling costs more then make up the difference over the life of the building.

As for the delays in the project. Originally 6 million was available for the project. Thats what was requested in authority from the legislature by SDSU. When the bids came in they were over the 6 million by around 250K. In order to keep the project moving the decision was made to cut out some items (like carpet and furniture) initially and go get additional authority from the legislature to finish the building since those things wouldnt be added in until the end of the project anyway. That was done and the legislature approved the additional authority. Thus, by this procedure, the project has been moving along and has been on schedule per the contract entered into last fall. It is scheduled for completion in Oct. or early Nov. Yes, Dana and others would have liked to have had the building done by the start of football, but as you can see from the pictures posted elsewhere it is a big building and it will be done in about a year from the time construction started which is a reasonable construction schedule.

Thanks Hobo D this very helpful, and I see what others are saying about engineering fees. But I worked with a federal Utility loan program for about 20 years. Engineering was always a cost for any construction project and it was done more to ensure that federal regs were followed in construction and the construction was up to standard. After all these rural telephone and electric entities were borrowering tax payer money. Well when some one who has made a fortune hauling dead animals off to the meat grinder give his money Augustana, I guess you dont have to worry about engineers. I hope this staduim is structurely sound and as pretty as it is now in 20 years. Lets hope Augie has not cut some corners that will later be remorsed. Time will tell.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

Let me give you some facts. Here are the fees paid on both the Dykehouse and the Wellness Center.

Dykhouse Costs:

Construction Costs (Estimated since the final change order cost is unknown): $5,483,181
Koch Hazard Architects: $557,218.54 (LEED Silver)
Estimated OSE fees: $38,997 ($33,248 spent to date - probably will be a little higher)
Estimated SDSU eng. fees: $38,997 (probably will be a bit higher)


SDSU Wellness Center Costs:

Construction Costs: $10,958,382
EAPC Architects/Eng: $649,372.73 (not LEED)
OSE fees: $57,486.00
SDSU eng fees: $122,514.00

Sunkota was the contractor on both projects.

The architechtural fees are in line with what private entities pay for new buildings. They are not out of line. Please note that the Dykehouse is required, as are all new state buildings to meet the LEED Silver certification. (LEED is a international set of standards for environmentally friendly, sustainable buildingss) While LEED buildings are somewhat more expensive to design and build, the lower heating and cooling costs more then make up the difference over the life of the building.

As for the delays in the project. Originally 6 million was available for the project. Thats what was requested in authority from the legislature by SDSU. When the bids came in they were over the 6 million by around 250K. In order to keep the project moving the decision was made to cut out some items (like carpet and furniture) initially and go get additional authority from the legislature to finish the building since those things wouldnt be added in until the end of the project anyway. That was done and the legislature approved the additional authority. Thus, by this procedure, the project has been moving along and has been on schedule per the contract entered into last fall. It is scheduled for completion in Oct. or early Nov. Yes, Dana and others would have liked to have had the building done by the start of football, but as you can see from the pictures posted elsewhere it is a big building and it will be done in about a year from the time construction started which is a reasonable construction schedule.

I am surprised to hear that the state REQUIRES buildings to be a minimum of LEED silver. My company has a number of people that think LEED is the cat's ass....I am not impressed by the whole process. Seems someone is making money telling someone their buildings are energy efficient. I think all design disciplines should be design efficiently anyway as it would be in the best interest of their clients.

The LEED certification process is expensive and this does not include the added costs of construction. Seems like a waste to pay for a certificate.

On another note I urge everyone to be patient. Construction takes time and this project seems to be on schedule. The fact that this is a government project prolongs the time it takes and tests everyones patience. It's not just the State of South Dakota that takes forever to complete projects it's every government entity from the local to federal level. The federal building system is not changing anytime soon.

[filbert]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

. . . the state REQUIRES buildings to be a minimum of LEED silver. . . . a number of people that think LEED is the cat's ass

I'll take a short diversion into politics to highlight this statement, just to kind of sit back and enjoy the universal and eternal truth which lies within it.

This assuming that the south end of a northbound cat is a less than desirable thing to be near . . .

[zooropa]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

I see what others are saying about engineering fees.

If I understood him correctly, I believe the other factor Jacks#1Fan was raising was the added costs of complying with the OSE & SDSU architect standards (dimensions of spaces, quality of finish materials, construction, etc.) For instance, SDSU may require masonry construction instead of stud walls for certain things...

[OtownJack]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

Just to clear things up regarding the necessity to hire engineers for this project, all projects of this size, whether funded through public or private dollars, require contract documents (plans & specs) prepared by licensed engineers and architects. The purpose is to safeguard the life, health, safety, welfare, and property of the public............not to just get government approvals (although this is also part of their duties).

This is a requirement in every state of the U.S., although the square footage requirements before the need to hire licensed professionals differs slightly between states.

[zooropa]

Re: News regarding the Dykhouse Center

I don't think the issue was hiring of consulting engineers, but the cost of & changes imposed by the official 'clients' in this case, the state engineer's office, and the SDSU engineer's office.