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  • Developing the football fan base

    Seems like we have a bunch of threads all touching on the main fact--SDSU has failed to develop a real football culture. We're not a football school. There's a bunch of reasons why:

    - Lack of perceived or real institutional support (the band issue, as an example),
    - Facilities issues (New scoreboard is great, new seatbacks are good, but Coughlin-Alumni stadium still basically has 1963-era amenities in a 2007 world),
    - Inadequate promotions and advertising,
    - Lack of early season football success (basically chops off at the knees any effort to build a solid backing),
    - Lack of late season football success (the need to consistently beat NDSU)

    There are probably other points that could be added to the list, but the point is that there isn't one single factor, but a constellation of forces which serve to suppress interest in football--to the extent that an SDSU team which is undefeated in its conference can only draw 3,000 to a November football game.

    The marketplace is competitive. High school and other college sports, hunting, and all other forms of entertainment compete for the scarce resource which is the South Dakota sports fan. It does no good to complain about the customer ("everybody's out hunting.")

    What has to happen is that we need to make SDSU football such an attractive option that Dave Dakotan would rather bring his family to a Jackrabbits football game on a Saturday afternoon than take them to Sioux Falls for shopping, or out into the fields for hunting, or whatever else might be a competing activity.

    What do we need to do to make Jackrabbit football that attractive option?

    You need to build interest in the program.

    It goes without saying that people follow a winner. Avoiding 0-3 season starts is a must. Beating NDSU is a must. The football program can help itself a lot with on-the-field success.

    I think at least a couple of early-season (September) games MUST be on TV. You need to build interest, and that may mean trading a couple of thousand people in the stands with tens of thousands of people watching the Jacks from their living rooms. "You need to spend money to make money."

    SDSU needs to get on a Sioux Falls radio station. WNAX is all fine and dandy with its extravagantly large coverage area, but Sioux Falls is where the people are, and WNAX is NOT a Sioux Falls radio station. A Sioux Falls station will have an interest in promoting SDSU athletics. None now have such an interest. It will make a difference. Ideally, a multi-station statewide radio network would be in place, but an affiliate in the state's largest city is CRITICAL.

    SDSU's games also need to be on a local Brookings radio station. I tried to listen to some of the WNAX pre-game show from my hotel room in Brookings and it was almost unlistenable because of RF interference in the hotel room.

    There needs to be heavy promotion via radio, tv, and newspaper ads starting in the summer to build some buzz going into the season.

    You might need to consider cutting the price of late-season tickets, or doing some kind of promotional tie-in to make those tickets more attractive to the sports consumer.

    I'm also coming to the conclusion that the stadium renovation is going to be a major factor in reviving SDSU football for the fans. The renovation has to be big-time, classy, and have a "wow" factor that will bring people out even when the team isn't 9-0. Building the CAS renovation from the start as a complete horseshoe with an enclosed south end would be a start, there. There's a potential to put 20,000 people in the seats--not for every game, but certainly for the biggest of big games (and, dare I say, hosting a playoff game in the near future?)

    What does all of this take? Money, of course.

    That's just the start of my musings on how to develop the fan base for SDSU football. I've tried to stay somewhat positive (i.e. what can we do in the future rather than what we've done wrong in the past). But it's obvious to me that it won't be just one thing, but doing a number of things better/correctly/differently will move the program forward.

    Feel free to chime in.
    "I think we'll be OK"

  • #2
    Re: Developing the football fan base

    Reality check: Total attendance for five dates this year is 50,964, an average of 10,192. No doubt there will be a nice crowd for NDSU. Let's say it's 12,000. That's 62,964 or an average of nearly 10,500 for the year, easily a record and nearly 1,000 fans more per date than last year. Had you told me three years ago that we'd be averaging more than 10,000 fans for our home dates, I'd have been pretty happy.

    Let's at least admit that progress has been made. These things take time. Yesterday we had 3,300 fans at a November game. Four or five years ago, it might have been 1,500. And those seasons didn't have the whopper crowds of earlier this year.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't do anything. TV, in my opinion, is overrated. It's expensive, there's no guarantee that anyone will watch, and it would set back the attendance gains that have been made of late, at least in the short-run. People act like it's no big deal to give up half of your gate to put a game on TV. You lose those dollars. You pay more. And any viewers who do tune in see a quiet, half-empty stadium with little excitement. Anybody out there impressed with the Augie/USD game on TV? Looked like a boring event to me. TV can do a lot of things, but you can't fake viewers into believing there are fans there when there aren't.
    Holy nutmeg!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Developing the football fan base

      [quote=filbert;68188]

      SDSU needs to get on a Sioux Falls radio station. WNAX is all fine and dandy with its extravagantly large coverage area, but Sioux Falls is where the people are, and WNAX is NOT a Sioux Falls radio station. A Sioux Falls station will have an interest in promoting SDSU athletics. None now have such an interest. It will make a difference. Ideally, a multi-station statewide radio network would be in place, but an affiliate in the state's largest city is CRITICAL.

      SDSU's games also need to be on a local Brookings radio station. I tried to listen to some of the WNAX pre-game show from my hotel room in Brookings and it was almost unlistenable because of RF interference in the hotel room.


      --
      I agree a radio network would be helpful, but I think we need to retain the coverage of "5 state radio - WNAX". Even with a statewide network of smaller stations, we could (most likely would) have less coverage. SDSU needs continued exposure outside of South Dakota and athletics are the most visible face of any university. Certainly with the advent of internet coverage, access is available in nearly every area, but only hardcore fans like us are likely to seek this out and pay for it. Those with a more casual interest will listen some of the time for free. In time they may develop stronger interest. My point - keep WNAX, at least as the flagship station.

      Go Jacks
      An ardent supporter of the hometown team should go to a game prepared to take offense, no matter what happens.Robert Benchley
      US actor, author, & humorist (1889 - 1945)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Developing the football fan base

        We have to consider the geography of the South Dakota State fan base. I would love to be at every game. But it is about a 700 mile round trip for me. When I look at the schedule each summer to see which games I can attend in the fall I look a lot harder at the games in the first six weeks of the schedule vs those in the final six weeks. It's not only the comfort of watching the games in better weather but consideration for road and travel conditions. I would have liked to be in the stadium for the SUU game but I pretty much exhausted my football travel budget to see the Jacks play Texas State and Cal Poly. At both of those games I saw several people who had made the same trip. When you consider the several people from the northern black hills that I see at the early games and then consider all of the communities over 200 miles from Brookings it is probably a safe assumption that us commuter fans accounted for many hundreds of people at the early games. Short of finding a way to control the weather conditions, most of us will not be attending very many November games.
        Finding is never about seeking. It is about opening yourself to what is already there. - Henry Meloux

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        • #5
          Re: Developing the football fan base

          I have to agree with Walrus in keeping WNAX. If we drop them you can bet USD will pick them up and they would try to keep WNAX this time around. The last time they could not find the people to pay WNAX and SDSU got WNAX back for sport events. This was about 1988 or 1989. SDSU has for years bought the broadcast time from WNAX and then sold the adds to locals sponsors to cover their purchase cost. I been told that this way works better than selling your exclusive rights to a specific station, and then the station sells the adds. SDSU has as I been told turned a profit in working with WNAX in this manner.

          I know KFAB in Omaha made a bundle on ads after paying UNL several thousand for the exclusive rights to broadcast the Husker games. Nearly every AM and FM station in Nebraska bought some of the rights from KFAB and then sold ads in their area.

          For SDSU to try something like a network of stations could be costly. USD had KELO as part of their system last year, but not this year. KELO has a good signal.
          Why not again this year? I am guessing it was a budget buster. A state-wide network would require some real planning and negitotions and everyone would have to be happy with their role. Some people might be impossible to work with, I do not know. I know, that the FCC licenses cost money and you need to have revenue to pay for the license and other operating expenses.

          I have been in North Dakota for personal reasons when a game was being played and unable to attend. I have tuned in WNAX and west of Fargo maybe 50 miles the signal is not bad in the car, but in the house its not as good. I know that KSOO or KELO would never come in Minnesota or Iowa west of Sioux City nor in North Dakota for that matter . We got a great thing with WNAX with their five state signal. I consider myself a hardcore, but have yet to try the new cybercast for a fee.

          Other ideas and thought expressed by Filbert, I have no arguement with and shucks why not use this message board to exchange some thoughts. Maybe some very workable idea(s) will emerge. I just dont have one right now.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Developing the football fan base

            Originally posted by West-River_Jack View Post
            We have to consider the geography of the South Dakota State fan base. I would love to be at every game. But it is about a 700 mile round trip for me. When I look at the schedule each summer to see which games I can attend in the fall I look a lot harder at the games in the first six weeks of the schedule vs those in the final six weeks. It's not only the comfort of watching the games in better weather but consideration for road and travel conditions. I would have liked to be in the stadium for the SUU game but I pretty much exhausted my football travel budget to see the Jacks play Texas State and Cal Poly. At both of those games I saw several people who had made the same trip. When you consider the several people from the northern black hills that I see at the early games and then consider all of the communities over 200 miles from Brookings it is probably a safe assumption that us commuter fans accounted for many hundreds of people at the early games. Short of finding a way to control the weather conditions, most of us will not be attending very many November games.
            I agree completely. There are many people that can't make it to all the games. I was there yesterday and the crowd was absolutely pathetic. We should be able to draw a better crowd than yesterday excluding commuters. If we're getting around 10000 for other games, you can't tell me that there were 7000 from outside the 200 mile radius. We should be able to draw around 6000 from within city limits. We need to figure out a way to draw the casual fan as Filbert stated. I GUARANTEE there were about 2000 "casual fans" inside city limits yesterday that chose to skip the game. Now, I understand that people's schedules can get hectic but I don't believe 2000 schedule's happened to be busy yesterday. I'm hoping the Gateway will help us bring in even more casual fans. I agree that those living miles away have to pick and choose, I just have a problem with the ones that COULD have made it to the game.

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            • #7
              Re: Developing the football fan base

              One more thing for people to remember is the impact that fans can have on the game. The players respond to a large crowd and to crowd noise. I honestly believe that in a potential trap game vs. SUU a larger crowd may have helped the team in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. I know it sounds corny, but I believe it's true. The crowd could hardly muster any noise on 3rd downs at all yesterday. I'm also embarrased that Coach Stig mentioned the lack of crowd in the post-game interview. They deserve better.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Developing the football fan base

                Like West-River Jack, I wish I could make the 700 mile round trip more often. I haven't been able to see a game yet this year but will be there next weekend. I love the WNAX coverage. Yesterday, I was hunting south of Lemmon and north of Bison, SD. I starting my drive home about 2:30 in the afternoon so I wouldn't have to worry about bambi getting stuck in my grill and I was able to listen to the entire second half.

                Maybe the solution is to keep the NDSU game where it is (last game of the year) and move the Beef Bowl and Hobo Day to the 2nd and 3rd to last games of the year.

                SDSU athletics is one of the things my wife and I miss most about Brookings (family and friends obviously come first). I'm looking forward to the day where we can afford to make more trips back for football games. I've told my wife that when I retire in 23 years I plan on buying or renting a place in Brookings because I plan on spending the football season there. And, hopefully, travel with the team.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Developing the football fan base

                  I posted in the SUU before seeing this thread about attendance. So I'll only repeat that I think the attendance gripe is getting old. It is what it is.

                  As far as the reasons, I think most forget this: population density near Brookings. Besides history and status of the program, this is the strongest factor in attendance.

                  Let's face it, the only decent population in Eastern SD is 50+ miles away in SF. Even though it's 1hr, that's a decent drive for us midwest folk. For some reason, people are more apt to drive an equal distance in a metro setting than flat boring country.

                  Be happy the program is where it is and that the attendance is increasing. If the team continues to have success, it will continue.

                  There will likely only be about 10-12K there next week and that is just fine with me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Developing the football fan base

                    If we can't get any crowds in November, I suppose we could always move those games to the Sanford Coliseum in Sioux Falls when that gets built...(shakes head)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Developing the football fan base

                      I attended the "Super Weekend" and had a great time, but really felt for the student athletes especially the football players. I can guarantee if I were Coach Stig, there would've been no "salute" to the crowd on Saturday. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they appreciate the folks that did show up, but I think the thing that bothers them the most is the lack of "fellow-students" showing up. I actually counted 174 in the student section on Saturday. 174 divded by 11,736 times 100 equals 1.47% of the student population showed up.

                      I honestly believe that USD does it right by giving away a scholarship to a student at some home football games. I know they've done that once this year, because my folks went to a game to watch a hometown kid that plays for USD, but as soon as they announced the winner about half of the students bailed.

                      So what will attract the students to every game besides winning every game and being ranked #1 in the nation, (which I don't think would do it either, to be honest)? I will be the first one to admit when I would come back to SDSU to visit my boys back in my college days, we didn't always go to the game and I had a lot of friends on the team, so I was part of the problem back then, I'll be the first one to admit it.

                      The only thing I can come up with is high-end bribery($100 won't do it): Announce the winner of $1000 for each home football game in the middle of the forth quarter. Give the student (including The Pride members) 5 minutes to get to the cash and if the student isn't there, it carries over to the next home game. The only students elligible are the ones that get their i.d.'s scanned that actually attend the game.
                      You could also do it with men's and women's basketball and volleyball but at $200-$500 per game.

                      I have NO idea if this would work and I have NO idea where the $$$ for it would come from either, but the athletic department needs to figure out a way to get the kids there. They create the atmosphere that gets the rest of us excited and it becomes electric, and that creates an atmosphere that D-I caliber athletes expect and deserve...especially this years football team in November.

                      I like the fact that this weekend disturbed us on this board enough to at least discuss solutions to the problem, just as it was with "The Pride" last week. 3300 fans at a home football game and a couple-hundred students when it was 50 degrees out and our team is ranked in the top 25 in the nation, to me is a problem and needs to be addressed.

                      Our teams deserved better and the high-end recruits will go elsewhere for that experience if SDSU can't give it to them...and honestly, how can you blame them??

                      I agree with JimmyJack that our attendance being over 10K for the year is probably going to happen and that is great. But we've got to be worried about getting to far behind our partner's and brethern up North and take steps be be much better as fans.


                      Go Jacks!!

                      P.S. I don't mean to be a downer with this post and I couldn't have been more proud of our SDSU athletes than I was this weekend. I'm just wish more people would've witnessed it.
                      SDSU...Passionate, Relentless, Champions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Developing the football fan base

                        Originally posted by NightHawk78 View Post
                        If we can't get any crowds in November, I suppose we could always move those games to the Sanford Coliseum in Sioux Falls when that gets built...(shakes head)...
                        That thought crossed my mind yesterday when I read the Argus front page story about the newly formed sport group for fund raising and promoting the new facility to the folks in SF. The article talked about a needing a large donor and with Krabbenkroft and Dana Dykhouse heading up the new group its seems plausible there is a possibilty that donor is already in place and his name is T Denny Sanford. Also late games in November might draw better indoors. They said the plans are somewhat modeled after the Fargo Dome, but there was no mention of football, not even arena football, but the discussion seemed to be about concerts and how the Fargo Dome draws 25,000 or more for concerts and thats what the city of SF wants to happen with this facility. We will have see on this one, but maybe its SDSU answer for better attendence in November.

                        I wonder what would happen if some other large donor than Sanford came forward out of the blue with the needed funds? Then what?

                        Also Dana and Krabbenkroft have their work cut out as the voters of SF have turned their noses up big time when the thought of a bond issue is brought up for the convention Center. It could end up being a T Denny Sanford project. I see another thread has been started on the proposal in AROUND South Dakota.

                        I apologize for the drift but a new arena in SF could be part of SDSU's development and part of the solution for a better football base. I just don't see late Novermber playoff games at CAS, I think a toasty indoor facility in SF might work better.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Developing the football fan base

                          Originally posted by propar80 View Post
                          The only thing I can come up with is high-end bribery($100 won't do it): Announce the winner of $1000 for each home football game in the middle of the forth quarter. Give the student (including The Pride members) 5 minutes to get to the cash and if the student isn't there, it carries over to the next home game. The only students elligible are the ones that get their i.d.'s scanned that actually attend the game.
                          You could also do it with men's and women's basketball and volleyball but at $200-$500 per game.
                          It's called the Burger King Kash Kontest. 20 dollars added per game we had a $320 dollar winner at the basketball game yesturday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Developing the football fan base

                            I have posted this before, but I'll say it again. This university is focused on continually improving student retention. We're very good, at 80 percent, but the President has said he hopes we can be at 90 percent.

                            One of the best ways to retain students is to make them feel connected to the place. By involving them in activities, we give them a chance to make friends and develop a support system here and to become part of the culture, to feel a connection to SDSU. As far as I know, the the people involved in retention programs (general registration, student affairs, VP for academic affairs) have not engaged the athletic department in any substantive way as a site for those kinds of activities. There is no cross-promotion that goes on, and certainly nobody on campus has been outspoken about making athletics a site for promotion as part of student retention efforts (there's a reason for that I'll get into in a minute.)

                            There should be major efforts to recruit students into the FanAddicts; to get them to use their "free" (they pay for it with student fees) admission to games; to provide them with opportunities to get to know student athletes and coaches. All of those things build community and will benefit retention efforts and the athletic department.

                            So who do you talk to? That's the problem. There are three powerful groups involved in retention efforts, and they're very territorial. One thing I am certain of: If one person starts suggesting things like this, you're likely to have all three of them come down on you like a ton of bricks because you'd be suggesting they're not doing everything they can do (any new idea around here is viewed as an implicit criticism by some people, and they respond unpleasantly).

                            The internal culture of SDSU is very toxic right now. You can't offer ideas without having somebody come down on you. So... everybody just clams up. We need some leadership to solve that.
                            Holy nutmeg!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Developing the football fan base

                              Originally posted by JimmyJack View Post
                              I have posted this before, but I'll say it again. This university is focused on continually improving student retention. We're very good, at 80 percent, but the President has said he hopes we can be at 90 percent.

                              One of the best ways to retain students is to make them feel connected to the place. By involving them in activities, we give them a chance to make friends and develop a support system here and to become part of the culture, to feel a connection to SDSU. As far as I know, the the people involved in retention programs (general registration, student affairs, VP for academic affairs) have not engaged the athletic department in any substantive way as a site for those kinds of activities. There is no cross-promotion that goes on, and certainly nobody on campus has been outspoken about making athletics a site for promotion as part of student retention efforts (there's a reason for that I'll get into in a minute.)

                              There should be major efforts to recruit students into the FanAddicts; to get them to use their "free" (they pay for it with student fees) admission to games; to provide them with opportunities to get to know student athletes and coaches. All of those things build community and will benefit retention efforts and the athletic department.

                              So who do you talk to? That's the problem. There are three powerful groups involved in retention efforts, and they're very territorial. One thing I am certain of: If one person starts suggesting things like this, you're likely to have all three of them come down on you like a ton of bricks because you'd be suggesting they're not doing everything they can do (any new idea around here is viewed as an implicit criticism by some people, and they respond unpleasantly).

                              The internal culture of SDSU is very toxic right now. You can't offer ideas without having somebody come down on you. So... everybody just clams up. We need some leadership to solve that.

                              WOW, I had no idea there was such infighting between administrative groups. Sounds like a bunch of 2nd graders fighting over the teatherball court.
                              I guess the President has some work to do...and maybe some firing.

                              Go Jacks!!
                              SDSU...Passionate, Relentless, Champions.

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