The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about.

[SDSUFAN]

There is another article in the Argus leader  this morning by Mick Garry who generally covers the events at USD.

He questions judgement and wisdom of President Miller and AD Fred Oien.

Here is my email to Mr. Garry:

Mr. Garry:
You have too much time on your hands.  Your article about the D1 move by SDSU is not clear to everyone makes that very obvious.  Does the D1 move have to be clear to everyone?  Since when does any state assisted instituion administrators have to make every decision clear to everyone? Who is everyone?

Some topics for future columns.

Why was Kelly Higgins fired?
Why did USD white wash is resignation?

Why was there no Pat O'Brien Fund raiser in Sioux Falls this year?

Why not badger President Abbott about what his committee is doing and what their plans are for 15 and 20 years from now?

If you want to question President's and AD's judgement, why not be fair and balanced, like Fox News.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Here is the article in the Argus today:

Move by SDSU not as clear to everyone
Mick Garry
Argus Leader

published: 8/21/2003

On Jan. 25, 2002, South Dakota State held a press conference to announce the preliminary findings of Carr Sports Associates, Inc., a consulting firm that was paid $30,000 to analyze the Jackrabbits' athletic program, especially as it applied to a possible move to NCAA Division I-AA status.

It was the first of many major public announcements coming from the school involving the NCAA Division II institution's pursuit of NCAA Division I-AA football and Division I everything else.

Included in the preliminary report from the Carr consulting team, headed by Bill Carr, a former Division I athletic director at the University of Houston, was a lot of laudatory things about SDSU's fitness for a move to Division I.

But the preliminary report also included this:

The Consultants conclude that the most difficult aspect of making the decision to reclassify to Division I-AA is establishing an athletic conference relationship with respected peer institutions located within a reasonable distance of each other. . . . Possible options should be in place before making the decision to reclassify to I-AA.

And in the Argus Leader's story the next day, these paragraphs appeared:

(Bill) Carr was emphatic in saying a move up without first securing a place in a Division I-AA conference would be doomed for failure.

"You just can't do it," Carr said. "There's no way for an independent Division I school to fill out a schedule."

Nearly 11 months later, on the day SDSU took its case to the state Board of Regents, this appeared in the Dec. 12, 2002 Argus Leader:

Oien has acknowledged that finding a conference would be difficult. But he said the school has options, and it would secure a conference schedule before committing to Division I.

When the regents approved the move that day, the conference issue was addressed in an SDSU press release like this:

The final hurdle to reclassification is conference affiliation. Throughout the fact-finding process SDSU officials have stated that the university will not make a move up the ranks of the NCAA until a suitable conference affiliation is secured.

Last week SDSU athletic director Fred Oien and President Peggy Miller acknowledged, as they announced that SDSU was submitting application for Division I-AA and Division I status, that they were doing so despite having no conference affiliation in place.

Oien and Miller said last Friday they were not going to get anywhere in their search for a conference until they made an official commitment to Division I. It was then that the term self-imposed entered SDSU's lexicon in reference to the conference contingency.

In the SDSU press release last Friday, Oien stated:

"Our decision to proceed without conference membership has been difficult, especially in light of our own self-imposed criteria for making the transition. Since Board approval in December 2002, we have had extensive discussions with presidents, athletic directors and commissioners of Division I conferences. It is abundantly clear to us now, that without having committed to Division I, conference interest in our program for prospective membership would be minimal."

A self-imposed criteria, you have to wonder, or a self-delusional one?

Gene Taylor, NDSU athletic director, was contacted by the Argus Leader this week. He said NDSU too wanted a conference first, noting that it will be harder to construct a budget without knowing long-term who the school will play. In the short-term, the absence of a conference membership will mean the school will likely suffer the scheduling problems the Carr consultants warned about. But even so, Taylor said, "We were clearly told by conferences that we're not even going to talk to you unless you make the commitment first."

[SDSUFAN]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Part 2 of the aricle, which was too long for this message board.

We can conclude one of two troubling things from SDSU's about-face on this issue:

A. Oien and Miller were, at best, hoping they'd have the conference issue settled before they'd make the jump. They made the claim to regents and in their countless sales pitches knowing to some extent what they know now - that serious conference talk would likely go nowhere because they'd yet to sign the Division I papers. They persisted with this story line because by including conference membership as a contingency, they would make the transition seem more palatable to regents, boosters, etc.

Or:

B. They just didn't realize what they were getting into when they made the conference promise to the regents and whoever else would listen. They simply did not know. They did not know this despite the tens of thousands spent on consultants and the countless conversations with ADs, college presidents, and conference administrators they'd had already. They simply did not know that it would be a struggle to find a suitable conference for the school without officially committing to Division I first. For some reason, the topic just never came up.

If it's A, shame on Miller and Oien. If it's B, then it's a sign that not everything we've heard from SDSU, in spite of its self-proclaimed extensive research, is going to be based on having a clear picture of what comes next.

"It is abundantly clear to us now. . ." Oien began as he started to describe what has transpired in the months since the regents' approval.

Translation: It served our best interests to believe, or pretend to believe, that we'd have the conference thing sewed up. But we know better now, just as we told you we knew better then.

Supporters of SDSU's move up have reason to think backing off the pledge to have a conference in place is not a huge issue. For many, landing in a conference as quickly as possible may not seem a pivotal obstacle when the ultimate pass/fail test for the jump is "15 or 20 years down the road," as Oien has said many times.

But during what will be a character-building transitional period for the school, those same SDSU supporters can't be looking forward to another major promise being dismissed by Miller and Oien.

Supporters can't be looking forward to another situation where they have to wonder whether a fairly boisterous pledge is abandoned because it was disingenuous from the start, or, as SDSU is soft-pedaling in this instance, because of an unsettling degree of ignorance.

Supporters can't be looking forward to another instance where Oien or Miller preface an answer to a crucial question about the transition to Division I with another "It's abundantly clear to us now . . ."

In regard to such an exhaustively studied and major component of this complex process, you have to ask, why in the world was it not clear then?


Copyright 2003 Argus Leader. All rights reserved

USA Today | USA Weekend | Gannett Co. Inc. | Gannett Foundation | PheasantCountry.com

[Guest]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

I hate to say this on the SDSU website, but many of us NDSU fans have wondered all along what SDSU was thinking in making the move to D1-AA. Do you really have the support to make such a move. Certainly Brookings, SD can't support a D-1 team alone. The Sioux Falls community is too against your move, and quite frankly we can understand why. You folks aren't in a city like Fargo and that will make your move without a conference a lot tougher than ours. Just the thoughts of a few REALISTIC Bison fans.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Bison Bill:

Its very easy to make  a population comparison of  Brookings and Fargo and conclude, its a failure in Brookings.

 What you are ignoring is the fact that SDSU is the largest state assisted institution of higher learning in South Dakota.  We have connections to every county in the state. So its not a matter of just Brookings people attending athletic events.  The Beef Bowl and the Cereal Bowl are both designed to bring followings from all the entire state together and we have done so.

The promotions will continue and I would expect extra effort in this area.

If size of town is so important, then explain why Troy,  Alabama, a town of about 13,000 and 60 miles from Montgemery, location of Troy State, is able to support D1 sports and D1A football? Explain Western Ill U, the one that was featured in the Fargo Forum just this week.  Macomb Ill is about the same size as Brookings.

Why havent these two communities failed based on population?

As far as the vocal ones in Sioux Falls, I venture that you would find a connection to the U of South Dakota.

Granted there is work to do in attracting Sioux Falls people.  Its easy to sit on the sidelines and say it does not work.  

I am still very supported of the D1AA move at SDSU and I think it will work, not easy, but it will happen.

[89rabbit]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

The most important issue that Mr. Garry completely ingnores is the NCC changed it rules of the game in midstream to paint SDSU in a box.  Perhaps had the rules stayed the same SDSU would have remained D II until a conf. was found.  However we will never know that, because the rules were changed.  

Beyond this Mr. Garry sites his own Newspaper as a source.  As if, when the Sioux Falls Argus Leader says so then it must be true.  That would be like President Bush saying that "the President of the United States on many occasions has said. . ." and using that as evidence to help support an issue he was putting forward.  (Sorry Mr. President, no disrespect intended)

Lastly he quotes the Carr report as saying that "possible options should be in place before making the decision to reclassify..."  Meaning that SDSU need to have options in place before they make the decision.  Seems to me that the Big Sky, Mid-Con, Horizon, Missouri Valley, and Great Western are all "options" so its ok to make the decision.  

It is clear to me that many folks are concerned about what is going to become of their favorite University (now that the NCC is a shadow of itself) and don't have the guts to say so out loud.  So they pretend that they are worried about SDSU.  Don't worry about SDSU, worry about poor old USD and Augie.  They are in far more danger.  We have been and will continue to be the largest and finest University in South Dakota.

Go Jacks!  

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

bisonbill,

Assuming that Sioux Falls is against this move is being shortsided. SF has a metro population of close to 200,000 people. There are many USD and augie fans that reside there. There are also many SDSU fans there.We do, and will get support from the SF community. I would assume that Grand Forks and UND are also against your move to D1.
To elaborate on what SDSU fan said, Brookings is certainley "big" enough for D1 support. I wanted to give you a couple of more examples that you dont need to be in a large city to have a D1 program. I picked these schools because they are in my area... with a little research I could name many more. These colleges are all at least one hour from a major city.
U. Mississippi (Ole Miss) Oxford, MS. pop.9984 (SEC) D1A
Mississippi St. Starkville MS. pop.18458 D1A SEC Conf.
Nicholls St. Thibodaux LA. pop.14035 D1AA (Southland)
NE LA. ST. Natchitoches LA. pop.16609 D1AA Southland
These shools are also located in very rural and economically "challenged" areas and all do just fine with fan support.

[89rabbit]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Great post Texas!!!  BisonBill, be careful how you throw that term city around, Fargo would be just an ok sized suburb of Kansas City.  Don't get me wrong, I think Fargo is a great community, however your perspective changes depending on where you are looking from.  

Go SDSU!  

[bisonguy]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

The radio voice of SDSU football and BB(Steve?-I was driving and didn't want to take notes) was on WDAY AM's Prime Time sports tonight. He said he has been all over South Dakota and talked to those supporting and those opposing SDSU's move to DI, most recently at Dakota Fest (?). Anyhow, he said there is an age line that divides the two sides. Those over 50 seem to oppose the move, while those under 50 are generally supportive of the move. He wasn't exactly in favor of the move until he learned more about it, and now thinks it's a good move.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Bisonguy:
Thanks for the report on Steve Emming the voice of the Jacks. It good programming that WDAY took time to interview him. The line between the age groups sounds about right. I am 62 and when in Brookings one of the big events of my visit to have breakfast with classmates from Hgh School usually Saturday Morning. During Basketball, everyone is very pumped up. Its taken time for my classmates to come around, but they are starting to see the advantages.
Just before the Board Of Regents meeting in December, people in Brookings where darn coming to blows over this issue.

I think the younger ones want to see a better image for South Dakota and thats why they see sports at the D1 level as one way of that happening.

Those over 50 never grew up with Dick Vitale and ESPN and coverage of football like it is now and thats why they probably hold back. Also as you get older, you kind of avoid risk and risk taking.

[hello]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

I love the Jacks and I think they'll eventually have success at DI....but for Jack 89......on the major stuff in the story, the guy, Garry, quotes SDSU's own press releases. If the stuff in the newspaper was not correct, the school would have refuted it long ago. SDSU has posted several of the guy's stories on the topic in the past. on their own website.

[89rabbit]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

I love the Jacks and I think they'll eventually have success at DI....but for Jack 89......on  the major stuff in the story, the guy, Garry, quotes SDSU's own press releases. If the stuff in the newspaper was not correct, the school would have refuted it long ago. SDSU has posted several of the guy's stories on the topic in the past. on their own website.

hello,

Let me start by saying welcome.  It is always good to have another voice on the board.  I agree with you that SDSU will be a success in D I.  Now lets turn to the topic of Mr. Garry.  My concern with him quoteing his own newspaper as a source is, he is presenting a story written by the same anti-SDSU/pro-USD newpaper as though it were a fact.  Hello, haven't you heard that your are not supposed to beleive everything you read .  To hold it up as fact simply because it was printed in a newspaper, his newspaper, is ludicrous.  Please re-read my concerns from earlier.  The man makes serious accusations.  To paraphrase Mr. Garry he claims that President Miller and AD Fred Oien are either liars or stupid.  Strong accusations without proof.  I believe neither to be true.  The key word in my sentence is "believe".  It is my opinion.  He is entitled to his opinion, he just needs to express it that way.  

I think that when Mr. Garry referes to the Carr report (which is what I assume you are talking about when you say he got the "major stuff" from SDSU's own press releases) he twits the outcome.  The basis for his whole argument is :  The Consultants conclude that the most difficult aspect of making the decision to reclassify to Division I-AA is establishing an athletic conference relationship with respected peer institutions located within a reasonable distance of each other. . .Possible options should be in place before making the decision to reclassify to I-AA.

The Key words there are"possible options".  We have possible options.  They are the Big Sky, Mid-Con, Horizon, Missouri Valley, and Great Western.  They are all possible, they are all options.  Is that options enough???  ???   I say yes.

Finally, your statment that Mr. Garry has been posted on SDSU web site.  This is of course true.  However  neither of his stories delt with the SDSU's Carr report.  As a matter of fact they were written before the Carr report was released.  March 3, 2002.  Both articles delt primarily with the effects and options for the NCC and USD.  Topics that Mr. Garry is well aquatinted with since, as SDSUFAN pointed out, he covers USD for the Argus.

In my opinion his article was filled with half truths and misleading information.  Not surprising considering his loyalties.  I belive President Miller and AD Oien to be honorable people with the best interest of SDSU and the State of South Dakota at heart.  I also think it is time for supporters of other University to get on with it, and worry about the best interest of thier schools.   hello, I enjoy differing opinions as long as they are well thought out.  By the way I am 89rabbit, not Jack89.  Again, let me bid you welcome, please visit and post often.  

DI all the Way, Go South Dakota State!  The biggest and the best!    

[89rabbit]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Here is the latest BS from the Argus: >

http://www.argusleader.com/news/Sundayfeature.shtml

I will comment on it when I get back from the Chief game.

Go State!

[filbert]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

Letter to the Editor of the Argus, in reply to today's Argus article "Division I at what cost?"

Kevin Dobbs’ article “Division I at what cost” asks legitimate questions about SDSU’s move to Division I. But another question also needs to be asked: what is the cost of not moving to Division I? As a native of South Dakota who three years ago moved to Kansas City, let me share the view from here.

The Division I move is about two things: simple name recognition, and stepping up to compete on the national stage. Either South Dakotans have the will to compete, or you don’t. If no one knows you exist, then you have no chance of doing business with them. People in Kansas City have only a hazy notion of South Dakota. Some of them know that you can get there by going north on I-29. Most will probably know that Mt. Rushmore is in one of the Dakotas. That’s it. And that’s Kansas City, only six hours away from Sioux Falls. Imagine how much less South Dakota matters to someone living in Boston or Los Angeles. With Sioux Falls closing in on a metropolitan area population of a quarter-million, can you afford not to participate in every part of American culture that you can?

It’s always easier in the short run to avoid challenges than to step up and meet them. Just because certain people in South Dakota think it is too costly and difficult to compete with the rest of the country doesn’t mean that the competition isn’t happening. All it means is that South Dakota will continue to be an unknown square state somewhere in flyover land with nothing to recommend it except Mt. Rushmore.

The message that D1 opponents are sending to the youth of South Dakota is: “If you want to compete in the world you have to leave South Dakota, because we in this state are unwilling to compete with the best of Montana and Wyoming, let alone Kansas, Missouri, Florida, or Texas.” How much will sending that message to South Dakota’s kids cost the state? Who’s asking that question?

[89rabbit]

Re: The Argus Leader Attack Dogs are out and about

filbert,

That is outstanding. I am proud that you are a fellow Alumni and KC resident. VERY nice job. Lets see if the SDSU hating Argus Lier prints it!

Go State!