A bad move?

[89rabbit]

Re: A bad move?

 What I seem to be interpreting from many of the posts is that athletics are the driving issues in the move.  

91,

please keep in mind that this is an athletics based board.  Most posters (myself included) come here to talk about Jackrabbit sports.  That being said as I have pointed out there are academic reasons to make the move to D-I/I-AA.  You know the Ivy League has done pretty well academically and they are D-I/I-AA.  

http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/

Go State!  ;D

[91rabbit]

Re: A bad move?

SDSUFAN and 89,

Thanks for your informative and thoughtful posts. I can see some very positive aspects to the move. Keep it going.

[JackJD]

Re: A bad move?

It may be helpful to consider that this is not really a move up for SDSU but a move to join our peers from two or three decades ago. Sure, it will take some time to adjust but I am optimistic that the adjustment period will be much shorter than what even many strong proponents of the move predict.

I think within 4 to 5 years the schedules will calm down and SDSU will be facing some big names on the athletic field. And we'll do well.

I have asked a few of the junior and senior athletes about their thoughts on the move. I have one son who is a junior athlete at SDSU and another son who will enter SDSU this Fall and will participate in athletics. My sense is the older son, the junior, and his peers, recognize that the schools SDSU will soon meet in athletics are the same schools SDSU competed against in the 70s (when I was a Jackrabbit athlete). So, is this really a "move up" or simply a return to where we should have been. The older athletes that I have talked to are also aware that more schools below SDSU's level both academically and athletically, are moving in to D-2. There is some sadness about leaving but I sense no strong opposition from many of the athletes. (Perhaps they like the idea they're now going to compete for a D-1 school!)

The men's cross country team, for example, won't compete for another NCC conference title...they've won 29 of them and the closest school to that record is Mankato with 9 NCC X-country titles. When they won this year, they all knew it was the last...they also are keenly aware that in most recent years, it hasn't been much of a challenge. Consider this: the Jackrabbit men's cross country team finished third at a meet in Seattle in the Fall of 02, a meet sponsored by the U of Washington which featured all D-1 competition except SDSU. Or, how about their eighth-place finish this past Fall at the Iona Meet of Champions in New York City's famed Van Cortland Park (if you know about college cross country, you'll recognize Van Cortland as THE place on the east coast for cross country) against some of the top eastern schools including many from the Ivy League. After that, competing against much of the NCC just doesn't cut it.

Study the old NCAA "College Division" from about 1970 and then look at NCAA D-1AA...see some similarities? SDSU and NDSU were stalwarts in the old College Division but stayed behind as the D-1AA league developed. We're just going back to play Youngstown State, Western Illinois, Northern Iowa etc.

To keep things in perspective: My two sons who selected SDSU did so for academic reasons (e.g. a great pharmacy program). They happen to be athletes. The academics scholarship they were offered were hard to beat. SDSU Alums' and the SDSU Foundation's contributions to academic scholarships in recent year have become the envy of many other institutions in the Midwest.

Just a few random thoughts....go Jacks!

[Texas_Jacks_Fan]

Re: A bad move?

91 rabbit,
Welcome to the board, If your a Jack fan your a friend of mine. We do disagree on the D1 move . It will be hard to add much to whats been said and JackJD really summed things up well in the above post, but I thought I would add my thoughts and one day hope to convert you to the D1 side. I started attending 'rabbit games when I was 10 (1976). I missed only a handful of games (football,m/w basketball, wrestling) from that time until I graduated from State in '88. then I moved out of SD to Colorado then Wisconsin and for the past 5 years in Dallas, TX. I'm a Sales Manager and I have traveled almost every week for the past 16 years. I have seen so many college sporting events-probably close to 50 diffrent campuses. some big/some small. When I was a student at SDSU I couldnt figure out why we were a D2 school, after I started going around the country attending games at other universities. I was STUNNED that we had not made the jump. (SDSU was in most cases way ahead of the D1 school I was watching) So when we announced our D1 move I was overjoyed. This move probably should have been made when UNI did it in the 70's although we may not have had the support structure completly in place, but thanks to our administration and current individuals in our athletic department we now have that support in place. From the begining the goal was moving up to be with like universities like Montana St. for instance. We have been there academically- and size wise for years, and we are finally catching up athletically. I know You like the NCC. but with each passing future year the D2 NCC will become less and less signifiacant as D2 continues to be watered down with schools no one has heard of. If you were at the womens Elite 8 this year and looked at the other schools competing (Drury?,Quincy? Merrimack?)That Is NOT where we belong. A common attitude runs rampant in SD (I refer to it as an inferiority complex)Many citizens think that they just cant compete with the rest of states- where this comes from I havent a clue but it hogwash! Many have said our population cant justify a D1 program. I took two states that I spend a lot of time in. MS. and LA. Economically speaking- SD is Beverly Hills when compared to these states. Louisiana has 12 D1 programs (public and private) in its borders (5 D1A schools). if you do some math this works out to about one D1 program for every 358,000 people. Mississippi has 6 D1 programs (3 D1A schools) this is one D1 program for every 450,000 citizens. So yes- South Dakota has plenty of population and WE can do this and WE will be successful. In todays world Status Quo gets you nowwhere. I never got much pleasure in wins over smaller schools that we had no business competing against in the first place. D1 will bring an excitement to SD like you wont believe-give it a few years and you will see what I'm talking about.

[89rabbit]

Re: A bad move?

91,

Here is another example of what I was talking about. In this story, former Tennessee Tech University Vice President David Larimore is making a case that dropping football at East Tennessee State University was the wrong decision. However some of his points can be used to explain why moving to D-I is the right thing to do for SDSU.

http://www.starhq.com/html/sports/05...hR5yfGqAlfZpW8


"It is an integral part of the university," said Larimore about college athletics. "There is an enormous social and economic value. . ."
One presentation showed that 90 percent of hits on Tennessee Tech's website are related to athletics and that 80 percent written about colleges is about sports.
"If you want to become invisible then diminish sports," said Larimore, pointing out that N.C. State, Ohio State and Kentucky, schools he was educated at, are all noted for their athletic programs. "Change the status of the athletic program and you change the status of the university.
"To a graduate going for a job interview or to a faculty member presenting at a conference, the institutional name recognition you get through athletics is vital. Visibility gives you credibility."

Go State, D-I all the way! ;D

[JackJD]

Re: A bad move?

89rabbit's post and the link to the East Tn State U story about dropping football should be mandatory reading. Even if one does not agree with all of the conclusions stated by the statistics professor quoted in the article, one must concede that at least some of his points have validity.

Good article. Good link, 89rabbit.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: A bad move?

89rabbit's post and the link to the East Tn State U story about dropping football should be mandatory reading.  Even if one does not agree with all of the conclusions stated by the statistics professor quoted in the article, one must concede that at least some of his points have validity.

Good article.  Good link, 89rabbit.

Agreed, the conclusions that the professor reached have been my gut feeling for a long time. I just havent had my hands on quanitative and qualitative support that was expressed in the article. I think SDSU has put on great plays concerts and of course the Pride of Dakotas,that have had an impact on the community and enlarge the Jackrabbit family, but Athletics seem to reach further.

We seem to have such a huge following for the Pride, that I have jokingly said that we should have Pride schedule of concerts and play football at half time.

With the new equestrian sport, I keep wondering if we might be adding to the Jackrabbit Family, by providing something for equestrian lovers across the state and throughout the upper midwest. The old Vernon Rude farm used to house a few horses, but if you drive by now there are tons of horses and trailers. The Rude's deeded their property to SDSU a few years back.

Some of the horses I suppose are rodeo, but the women rodeo events sort of resemble equestian riding events, so this is going to be a great fit. Better stop as I am posting on the wrong thread.

[Killem]

Re: A bad move?

I'll admit, I don't know much about your school. What I can tell you is the key to success in a higher division relies on a couple of things. Here locally, Savannah St moved from D-II to D-I and is really taking their lumps. They don't seem to have a plan or a goal where they want the program to go. They had success for only a couple of years in football. The only other sport (men's or women's) that had any success was baseball so they are not competing well in D-I. The next thing is MONEY! It takes lots of it to be competitive . They built a new arena for basketbal, and a nice one because the old gym was horrible. However, their football stadium and their baseball field are worse than the old basketball gym. Upgrades will be needed for alumni support and most importantly, recruiting.

If your school has all these then y'all should do fine. It may take time. We at Georgia Southern may give y'all a hard time but it is all in fun. With all these programs moving to I-A or dropping football altogether, we want you to be successful.

[SDSUFAN]

Re: A bad move?

Killem:

Thanks for your comments and I could not agree more with what you said.

Someone over on Bisonville.com posted articles about the woes of Savannah State. I for one am somewhat familiar with that situation. If I am thinking of the same school, I believe Savannah State is a historically black college, which probably does not have that many alums who can step forward with generous donations. Sometimes, these schools can surpise us though.

SDSU did engage Carr & Associates after NDSU had used them to make a feasiblity study. I attended one of the press conferences on campus that included Mr. Carr. He was an AD at U of Florida and had a very capable staff. I have read that report and spent three hours copying the report that is on file at HM Briggs libiary. This report looked at the move from every angle and made recommendations. Some have charged that Carr just changed the title page from the NDSU report and gave it to SDSU, but thats not the truth at all.

We also have had a marketing study that give a number of recommendations as well. This study was made by a a different company than the one used by NDSU, but in both studies, SDSU does have a plan and a goal in mind in making the move.

There are tons of improvements and recommendations to be made and both studies are the road map that SDSU is following in the drive to a higher level.

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: A bad move?

I think I am like most Jackrabbit fans. If the Div. II landscape was not going to change and if the NCC was going to remain the same, I would be opposed. There are going to be huge challenges, but a land-grant institution like SDSU is equipped to handle them. I have always been thankful that SDSU has the leadership that it has in place. They took the lead on being prepared for whatever decisions had to be made. They have studied the move from all angles. The move will be good for the whole state.

[jackmd]

Re: A bad move?

I think I am like most Jackrabbit fans.  If the Div. II landscape was not going to change and if the NCC was going to remain the same, I would be opposed.  There are going to be huge challenges, but a land-grant institution like SDSU is equipped to handle them.  I have always been thankful that SDSU has the leadership that it has in place.  They took the lead on being prepared for whatever decisions had to be made.  They have studied the move from all angles.  The move will be good for the whole state.

Well said, succint and accurate.  Credit to you SUPERBUNNY for having the foresight, intelligence, and intestinal fortitude to support the move.  Unfortunately, there are many people who consider themselves supporters/fans of SDSU who don't posess the attributes described here (you know who you are).  Thankfully, there are people in the proper positions and things are moving forward.  In time popular opinion will follow.  Welcome to the board, SUPERBUNNY and Rabbit_fan, invite your friends (the naive and the enlightened) all opinions will be heard (read).

[Rabbit_Fan]

Re: A bad move?

I agree with superbunny, this move to division 1 will be wonderful in the future. All of the nay-sayers will soon learn to love watching the jacks play against some of the best competition in the country. We will be able to match our great athletes against those seen on tv. What could be better for our kids? I for one cant wait for the basketball season to start...too bad it is only May!!!! In a couple of years, if we keep supporting the Jacks like they deserve, we may have one of the top programs in the midwest. We just have to convince the fans to keep supporting the team like we have in the past.

[Killem]

Re: A bad move?

We at Georgia Southern are going through the same issues now. There is a lot of pressure from folks for GSU to move to I-A. I personally think this a mistake. It would be hard to compete with uga and Georgia Tech for fan support, funds and most of all support from the board of regents. We fought them for years just to gain university status. If people think that by our moving up uga will come to Statesboro, they're dreaming. If anything we will become everyone's homecoming opponent.

Yes Savannah St is a HBC and I think they did not research the feasibility of Division I athletics. Currently their athletic dept is operating with a deficit. Not good!

[89rabbit]

Re: A bad move?

killem, Brings up the point that everyone forgets when they want to find a D-II school that has not done well in its move to D-I. That point is that SDSU is the flagship University in South Dakota. Even his mighty Eagles (not smack) are the #3 Univeristy in GA. That would make Savannah St. #4 (maybe lower, I don't know much about GA schools under GSU).

Our good friend Big Jake, big fan, updm002, Fem Heroin, or what ever he/she is calling himself/herself today is always quick to bring up UMKC which is at best the #4 school in Missouri, but one could easily make a case that they are as low as #6 or #7.

SDSU is South Dakota's ONLY D-I school. We have been and are still the BIGGEST and the BEST (Remember South Dakota was the LAST state to get a D-I school, EVERY other state in the Union had one before us). We have great Alumni/friends support, Sid is working hard to put more $$$ in place (That dosen't mean that we all shouldn't do our part. Please take the time to do like I did this past year and Join the Jackrabbit Club. It starts as low as $25), we have great leadership. SDSU WILL be successful in our move to D-I, and years from now you will be hard pressed to find anyone who will be willing to admit that they were against the move.

Bad move? I think not. It is in fact going to be a GREAT Move and one that we will all be proud that we were a part of. I have said it before. . . it is a GREAT time to be a Jackrabbit! ;D

Go State! South Dakota's ONLY D-I school! 8)

[SDSUFAN]

Re: A bad move?

Alum guy asked a rhetorical question at the beginning of this thread  of "How many posts will this thread get?"

Here is post no 44 and entirely one in agreement with 89rabbit's post.  Its not the 5 stars nor the Moderator title ;D that makes me so agreeable.  We have discussed a number of issues using instant message and generally we are in agreement.  I just hope we can continue to a civil and logical discussions here. Having a moderator is helpful.

Some thoughts on Jeff Kolpeck Fargo Forum articles and what they could do for the SDSU family.  I just picked up my print  copy of May 18, of  The Brookings Register and they have takens AP version of Kolpecks Article and printed on the front.

I have been critical of the Brookings Register in the past and continue to do so.  Where is the The Registers feature article on the D1 move? It's yet to be written.  The Brookings Register has two speeds slow and stop, and with gas prices being at an all time high, the speed in useage is stop it appears.

The important conclusion I think everyone recognized from Kolpeck's articles was the difference in scholarship increase for year 1.  The score is NDSU 50 SDSU 14.5.  It sounds like a football score from the 1963-1990 era.
Hopefully these article will rally some contributions and even if they are only 25 bucks, SDSU needs all the help it can get.