Attendance & Alcohol

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I'd say the biggest part of the attendance problem is that there is simply not a culture, primarily in Sioux Falls (because that's where most of the people are) but also everywhere else within driving distance, which makes attending SDSU football games one of the biggest social activities of the month, as it is in places with a better culture.

NDSU has such a culture built over decades of success.

It seems to me that the complaints about the tailgating situation and this discussion of alcohol at the games is actually talking about this lack of a real culture of game-attendance in all of the communities within driving distance but especially in Sioux Falls. But both of them are symptoms of the problem, not the cause.

To get a consistent 15k or more every home game, the DJD has to be seen as The Place To Be, rain or shine, snow or sun, and people in their workplaces on Monday mornings are saying to each other "were you at the game?" where "the game" is assumed to mean the SDSU game in the DJD.

There's not a magic wand to do this. It's built one person at a time. If you want better attendance, talk it up--especially if you're in Sioux Falls. But it won't happen overnight. It will take years/decades of successful football seasons to build a culture that will survive through the inevitable bad years.

I've had two guys where I work mention a desire to attend a game in Brookings (both admitted they'd primarily do so in order to experience the new stadium first-hand rather than specifically watch the Jacks), but I told them both, I'd be happy to get them tickets when I make my season ticket order next year, if they just let me know what game(s) they'd like to attend.

I believe it was last year that the Bookstore was offering discounts on SDSU apparel if a person donated USD garb; it sticks out in my mind because I made a joke about it to my colleagues at the time because I was working for the Center for Disabilities at SSOM in Sioux Falls. Anyway, I mentioned the Jacks competing with the zoo and theaters. I failed to mention that we're potentially competing with Augie, USD, and USF for fans. What if Athletics had a program where they offered discounts on tickets to Jacks games, concession incentives, etc. if the person opted to attend a Jacks game (and/or donated "competitors'" apparel) instead of a competitor's contest? The benefit could be limited to those who had tickets to the competitors' contests to prevent abuse/taking advantage of the incentive among folks never intending to attend the competitors' game(s).

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Sounds like you have an issue that has absolutely nothing to do with alcohol sales.

But those issues are gonna get way worse if beer is sold.

[CappinHard]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

But those issues are gonna get way worse if beer is sold.

Outside of isolated incidents, I don't see it being a large problem. Much like his current issue.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Outside of isolated incidents, I don't see it being a large problem. Much like his current issue.

Just curious, how are you compromising in all of this?

I've indicated a willingness to allow alcohol sales and impeded game viewing, but your response is essentially, "if you don't like it, move," ignoring the fact that the behavior I described is indicative of a mindset that the offenders are entitled to do what they please with little to no regard for how it impacts others.

[mitchellrabbit]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Outside of isolated incidents, I don't see it being a large problem. Much like his current issue.

I agree, there are going to be isolated incidents of idiots that cause trouble. I see nothing on the west side. I have to get up to let people through to go to the concessions or to the bathrooms. Its the normal thing that i dont get bent out of shape over. Ive been going to the Summit Tourney since it came to SF and have not seen any problems there with the alcohol. If we can drink and get along with USD fans, we should be able to drink and get along with our own fans at a football game.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Just curious, how are you compromising in all of this?

I've indicated a willingness to allow alcohol sales and impeded game viewing, but your response is essentially, "if you don't like it, move," ignoring the fact that the behavior I described is indicative of a mindset that the offenders are entitled to do what they please with little to no regard for how it impacts others.

Why does the good Cappin need to compromise because you’re upset about someone standing in front of you?

Have you tried talking to the gentleman? Might be more productive than bitching on here.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Why does the good Cappin need to compromise because you’re upset about someone standing in front of you?

Have you tried talking to the gentleman? Might be more productive than bitching on here.

I'd hope that when one's in a venue that's larger than a "man cave," the person would realize that compromise is going to be essential. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that chances are better than average that you'd bitch if you were sitting at home and someone was standing in front of the TV having a conversation when you were trying to watch something.

Go ahead and try to frame this as me bitching or restricting alcohol consumption and/or hoedowns in the stands, but I've been open about allowing reasonable drinking and traffic in the rows, and I've offered suggestions which other venues utilize that'd serve to minimize disruptions to sight lines

[98Jackfarmer]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Among people I know, the root problem is that they see FCS (or as most of them call it "1AA" or "D2") as the collection of schools used as September punching bags by the big boys. This includes a bunch of SDSU and USD grads, many of whom go to at least one game each year. Is it because (as someone else mentioned in the earlier thread) this is "Big 10 country"? I personally think it's something like that - and that's definitely not the case out in Montana. Take a look at the teams in the top-25. Elon, Stony Brook, Towson, Colgate, Wofford, James Madison, Dartmouth, Kennesaw St. Even I literally can't tell you which state a single one of those is in. I don't know how you fix this, but I think it is a big part of the reason locals don't want to go out in even slightly chilly weather. Rain in November, forget about it unless it is USD/NDSU. Turning that around in the days of easy TV viewing is going to be tough.

I think a lot of you are arguing about a important topic, but missing the elephant pointed out by Southeast. Unless its an event game like SE pointed out, who cares about playing MSU? Most of the alumni grew up not knowing who the heck they were. Coming from a background of mediocrity our program is going to take time, I believe selling alcohol and finding a way to offer more affordable ticket packages are a step in the right direction to help. But, it will take time to cure the apathy IMO.

[JackJD]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Now we're getting into territory where we all lack data.I genuinely believe that a moderate reduction in ticket prices (a level which would be informed by the factors you mentioned) would serve to increase sustainability by distributing the cost to fans among a broadened base of support, thereby decreasing the risk of large-scale revenue loss due to overreliance on a limited subset of alums/fans. Similarly, I think broadening support is vital because I suspect the age distribution among the current season ticket holder demographic is negatively skewed (there's a greater number of older ticket purchasers). Admittedly, I am basing this on the estimated age of fans I see when I attend games. If true, those individuals will need to be replaced at increasing rates as they and the stadium age....

Actually the financial information is not something "where we all lack data." And if we all did lack data, then one should acquire the data so that intelligent decisions can be made. The data about debt service, the athletic department's obligation to pay the scholarship costs of the athletes (not everyone may be familiar with that concept but the costs for tuition, housing, meals etc. isn't just written off at a public institution like SDSU -- it is paid by the athletic dept to the university) and the cost-of-attendance component, are all public information. For example, in the lead-up to construction of the new stadium, the university put the numbers together including projected income, sources of income etc. From there, the board of regents had to approve the plan and the numbers. Then it went to the legislature for approval. From there, the bonds were sold to raise the money that wasn't donated. All of that information was and remains a matter of public record. If revenue streams as projected started to change significantly, I would be a little worried about the impact on outstanding bonded indebtedness. In short: it's a little more complicated than some guys sitting in their easy chairs while the NFL is on the TV, speculating and offering opinions.

Yes, I am sitting in my easy chair watching Sunday football. But I have looked at the pubic information on the financing of the stadium.

I'm all for kicking some ideas around but not all ideas are worth kicking around. The athletic dept., and the university have some pretty smart minds who put together the financial data which enabled us to build the Dykhouse. I'm confident they are on top of the situation and continually looking for ways of insuring the revenue stream remains solid and, if possible, increases. A lack of knowledge about the underlying data doesn't carry much weight.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Actually the financial information is not something "where we all lack data." And if we all did lack data, then one should acquire the data so that intelligent decisions can be made. The data about debt service, the athletic department's obligation to pay the scholarship costs of the athletes (not everyone may be familiar with that concept but the costs for tuition, housing, meals etc. isn't just written off at a public institution like SDSU -- it is paid by the athletic dept to the university) and the cost-of-attendance component, are all public information. For example, in the lead-up to construction of the new stadium, the university put the numbers together including projected income, sources of income etc. From there, the board of regents had to approve the plan and the numbers. Then it went to the legislature for approval. From there, the bonds were sold to raise the money that wasn't donated. All of that information was and remains a matter of public record. If revenue streams as projected started to change significantly, I would be a little worried about the impact on outstanding bonded indebtedness. In short: it's a little more complicated than some guys sitting in their easy chairs while the NFL is on the TV, speculating and offering opinions.

Yes, I am sitting in my easy chair watching Sunday football.

Should've clarified, the data we are lacking would be the impact of ticket price reductions, prospective fans' interest in said reductions, and concomitant impact on scholarships, FCOA, etc.

[JackJD]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I think "apathy" is not the right word. People make choices about what they do for recreation. Other posters have commented on getting people to think that a Saturday afternoon or evening watching SDSU football is the best thing to do on a Saturday. I think that's the right approach. We're establishing the foundation now with several years of consistently good football -- I think that will lead to influencing choices.

[JackJD]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Should've clarified, the data we are lacking would be the impact of ticket price reductions, prospective fans' interest in said reductions, and concomitant impact on scholarships, FCOA, etc.

You may want to look at the projections made by SDSU about revenue sources for the stadium as part of the overall financing for the stadium. Again, its a little more complicated than can be covered in fan message board. [As I typed that last sentence, I had to chuckle...heck, just about everything discussed in a fan message board is a little more complicated than can be covered in a fan message board. ]

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

You may want to look at the projections made by SDSU about revenue sources for the stadium as part of the overall financing for the stadium. Again, its a little more complicated than can be covered in fan message board. [As I typed that last sentence, I had to chuckle...heck, just about everything discussed in a fan message board is a little more complicated than can be covered in a fan message board. ]

That doesn't capture what's probably one of the most integral data elements -- representative levels of prospective fans' interest in ticket price reductions and the extent to which reductions would influence future purchasing decisions. That's paramount because increased ticket sales at the reduced prices would serve to reduce losses incurred as a result of reduced ticket prices

[98Jackfarmer]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

The first question I have here is; 1. Are we meeting/exceeding/or lacking on the revenue projections? Or are we as a message board just wanting the impossible at this time while being somewhat jealous of Fargo? 2. I can take my family to the car races in Watertown for $50 or so if we eat there, I can take them to the movies for $75 or less, the ticket offer the other day was $125 give or take, can't remember for sure. But without a doubt SDSU football is about the highest priced event to take a family to that is a "regular" event. Is this actually causing a problem?

[98Jackfarmer]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I would also say don't underestimate the amount of youth activities on the weekend too. The lack of attendance might be just a case of "death by a thousand cuts".