Attendance & Alcohol

[Nidaros]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Before I answer this rhetorical question, tell me whether you think this is actually a good indication of whether or not alcohol sales would increase attendance in other sections of the stadium.

Whenever you buy a club seat you are buying your beer and your concessions and they are bought for ten years in advance $750 per year. Not a good indication. Someone else gets to drink my beer and wine which is okay with me.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Among people I know, the root problem is that they see FCS (or as most of them call it "1AA" or "D2") as the collection of schools used as September punching bags by the big boys. This includes a bunch of SDSU and USD grads, many of whom go to at least one game each year. Is it because (as someone else mentioned in the earlier thread) this is "Big 10 country"? I personally think it's something like that - and that's definitely not the case out in Montana. Take a look at the teams in the top-25. Elon, Stony Brook, Towson, Colgate, Wofford, James Madison, Dartmouth, Kennesaw St. Even I literally can't tell you which state a single one of those is in. I don't know how you fix this, but I think it is a big part of the reason locals don't want to go out in even slightly chilly weather. Rain in November, forget about it unless it is USD/NDSU. Turning that around in the days of easy TV viewing is going to be tough.

We have a bingo right here.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

We have a bingo right here.

This is another reason why I think ticket prices have to be on the table. You neutralize the "they're not a B1G 10 team, but they're charging FBS prices" criticism. Moreover, multiple other factors ranging from travel to alcohol consumption are subject to price elasticity -- reducing the cost of one can serve to increase one's interest/ability to afford another.

[CappinHard]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I'm willing to compromise, so let's have a discussion rather than jumping to extremes. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to watch the game and not have people standing in front of me during game action. Sorry, I don't pay for tickets to subsidize someone else's alcohol consumption or reunion with friends in the middle of the dang row where I'm sitting.

There's definitely etiquette that should be followed as far as when to enter/exit rows, and in my experience most people do a great job with that. Do you have issues now with people standing in front of you during game action, consuming drink/food and having reunions with friends?

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

There's definitely etiquette that should be followed as far as when to enter/exit rows, and in my experience most people do a great job with that. Do you have issues now with people standing in front of you during game action, consuming drink/food and having reunions with friends?

Yes, there have been issues, and one reason I think they'd increase is that one repeat offender is the social butterfly I mentioned during the Hobo Day thread who was very vocal about wanting to leave early to hit the bars. This same person likes to glad-hand with people in rows in front of me which cause the person in front to stand and try to have a conversation with the dude behind me.

I mentioned compromise -- part of my compromise is that I need to allow people to occasionally block my view to attend the game live, but similarly, people who want to drink or even make purchases at concessions can compromise by considering that their leaving seats for items does impact others' ability to view the game, and there are enough in-game media breaks, pregame, and at halftime to allow them to get these items with reduced impact on others. Again, I think having vendor trays would considerably reduce adverse viewing impact, and I would hope that'd be considered by Athletics and whichever vendor they work with

[CappinHard]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Yes, there have been issues, and one reason I think they'd increase is that one repeat offender is the social butterfly I mentioned during the Hobo Day thread who was very vocal about wanting to leave early to hit the bars. This same person likes to glad-hand with people in rows in front of me which cause the person in front to stand and try to have a conversation with the dude behind me.

I mentioned compromise -- part of my compromise is that I need to allow people to occasionally block my view to attend the game live, but similarly, people who want to drink or even make purchases at concessions can compromise by considering that their leaving seats for items does impact others' ability to view the game, and there are enough in-game media breaks, pregame, and at halftime to allow them to get these items with reduced impact on others. Again, I think having vendor trays would considerably reduce adverse viewing impact, and I would hope that'd be considered by Athletics and whichever vendor they work with

Sounds like you have an issue that has absolutely nothing to do with alcohol sales.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Sounds like you have an issue that has absolutely nothing to do with alcohol sales.

Correct, considering they don't currently sell alcohol on east side, my concerns are rooted in inconsiderate behavior I have experienced and my assessment of the likelihood such behavior would continue and possibly increase if alcohol sales were to occur there.

One of my quirks is that I'd advocate proactive adaptation rather than delayed reactivity. It seems illogical that a person who exhibits selfish behavior when the only alcohol he's consuming is during tailgating or being smuggled in would somehow become markedly more considerate after buying one or more beers (to clarify, I'm referring to folks who sit in my area and not you or other posters, unless you/they're the aforementioned glad-hander).

That's why having vendors would be much appreciated. Another benefit of having vendors is that it would serve to reduce the lines I mentioned in a prior post and would allow minor student workers to continue manning all concession stands.

[JackJD]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

This is another reason why I think ticket prices have to be on the table. You neutralize the "they're not a B1G 10 team, but they're charging FBS prices" criticism. Moreover, multiple other factors ranging from travel to alcohol consumption are subject to price elasticity -- reducing the cost of one can serve to increase one's interest/ability to afford another.

In making that statement, how have you accounted for (1) debt service on the stadium; (2) the athletic department's obligation to pay for the scholarship-athletes' education; (3) the athletic department's obligation to pay for cost of attendance?

I'm seriously asking the questions -- not just trying to be argumentative or devil's advocate I personally think there is a point at which some adjustments to ticket prices could result in greater overall ticket revenue BUT on the other side of that point is diminishing returns: reduce ticket price incorrectly and all you did was reduce revenue -- people who were going to show up anyway got a price reduction intended to bring in enough new fans to offset the price reduction and then some. I have no idea where that point is. I think that a ticket for grade-school and under students will positively increase attendance and revenue by increasing the chances families with little kids can attend -- but I'm guessing like everyone else.

[CappinHard]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

Correct, considering they don't currently sell alcohol on east side, my concerns are rooted in inconsiderate behavior I have experienced and my assessment of the likelihood such behavior would continue and possibly increase if alcohol sales were to occur there.

One of my quirks is that I'd advocate proactive adaptation rather than delayed reactivity. It seems illogical that a person who exhibits selfish behavior when the only alcohol he's consuming is during tailgating or being smuggled in would somehow become markedly more considerate after buying one or more beers (to clarify, I'm referring to folks who sit in my area and not you or other posters, unless you/they're the aforementioned glad-hander).

That's why having vendors would be much appreciated. Another benefit of having vendors is that it would serve to reduce the lines I mentioned in a prior post and would allow minor student workers to continue manning all concession stands.

I think you just need to pick a new season ticket location.

[bigticket1]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I would have no problem with selling beer at games. My concern would be the logistics of getting it done. I love the new stadium, but have always thought that both concession and restroom facilities were under built for a 19,000 capacity stadium. Crowds of 12,000-13,000 result in long lines at both. There is no way to sell beer through the current concession areas. It would require some type of a temporary/portable set-up. And with that come concerns with crowding/congestion in the concourse areas. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be an easy fix.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

In making that statement, how have you accounted for (1) debt service on the stadium; (2) the athletic department's obligation to pay for the scholarship-athletes' education; (3) the athletic department's obligation to pay for cost of attendance?

I'm seriously asking the questions -- not just trying to be argumentative or devil's advocate I personally think there is a point at which some adjustments to ticket prices could result in greater overall ticket revenue BUT on the other side of that point is diminishing returns: reduce ticket price incorrectly and all you did was reduce revenue -- people who were going to show up anyway got a price reduction intended to bring in enough new fans to offset the price reduction and then some. I have no idea where that point is. I think that a ticket for grade-school and under students will positively increase attendance and revenue by increasing the chances families with little kids can attend -- but I'm guessing like everyone else.

Now we're getting into territory where we all lack data. I genuinely believe that a moderate reduction in ticket prices (a level which would be informed by the factors you mentioned) would serve to increase sustainability by distributing the cost to fans among a broadened base of support, thereby decreasing the risk of large-scale revenue loss due to overreliance on a limited subset of alums/fans. Similarly, I think broadening support is vital because I suspect the age distribution among the current season ticket holder demographic is negatively skewed (there's a greater number of older ticket purchasers). Admittedly, I am basing this on the estimated age of fans I see when I attend games. If true, those individuals will need to be replaced at increasing rates as they and the stadium age.

I would hope the Jacks would acknowledge that setting ticket prices based on conference foes in metro areas or regional FBS schools risks severely inadequately considering ancillary costs like fuel, lodging, etc. that impact fans' propensity to purchase tickets. That's another reason I'd focus on Brookings, Volga, Arlington, etc. to try to generate more localized interest (particularly if they have an aversion to reduce ticket prices), as those prospects wouldn't face the gas and hotel costs of other fans.

Another assumption I make is that we're not competing with NDSU, UNI, the Gophers, and Huskers for many fans. Rather, we're competing with establishments like the Great Plains Zoo, movie theaters, etc. If data support that assumption, Athletics is spinning its wheels by fixating on other schools' prices and amenities and would benefit from examining how to adapt ticket packages and amenities to compel folks to seriously consider attending Jacks games, at least on occasion, instead of these other events. I've mentioned trying to partner with the Brookings theater for incentives, but the zoo would be another possible partner -- our mascot is a mammal after all. Let's say data suggest that a fairly sizable number of families would be interested in attending a game but opt to go to the zoo instead. Maybe the Jacks could offer a package where families attending an early season game (early season to increase the likelihood the kids wouldn't be bothered by the weather) would receive coupons/discounted passes to the zoo.

I'll concede this can't be done for free, but that's where increased business sponsorships could be developed.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I would have no problem with selling beer at games. My concern would be the logistics of getting it done. I love the new stadium, but have always thought that both concession and restroom facilities were under built for a 19,000 capacity stadium. Crowds of 12,000-13,000 result in long lines at both. There is no way to sell beer through the current concession areas. It would require some type of a temporary/portable set-up. And with that come concerns with crowding/congestion in the concourse areas. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be an easy fix.

Vendors with the portable trays could help address this. The tricky part would be adding storage/refrigeration facilities.

[jakejc795]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I think you just need to pick a new season ticket location.

Haha, noted. That was some discussion.

[filbert]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I'd say the biggest part of the attendance problem is that there is simply not a culture, primarily in Sioux Falls (because that's where most of the people are) but also everywhere else within driving distance, which makes attending SDSU football games one of the biggest social activities of the month, as it is in places with a better culture.

NDSU has such a culture built over decades of success.

It seems to me that the complaints about the tailgating situation and this discussion of alcohol at the games is actually talking about this lack of a real culture of game-attendance in all of the communities within driving distance but especially in Sioux Falls. But both of them are symptoms of the problem, not the cause.

To get a consistent 15k or more every home game, the DJD has to be seen as The Place To Be, rain or shine, snow or sun, and people in their workplaces on Monday mornings are saying to each other "were you at the game?" where "the game" is assumed to mean the SDSU game in the DJD.

There's not a magic wand to do this. It's built one person at a time. If you want better attendance, talk it up--especially if you're in Sioux Falls. But it won't happen overnight. It will take years/decades of successful football seasons to build a culture that will survive through the inevitable bad years.

[Nidaros]

Re: Attendance & Alcohol

I would have no problem with selling beer at games. My concern would be the logistics of getting it done. I love the new stadium, but have always thought that both concession and restroom facilities were under built for a 19,000 capacity stadium. Crowds of 12,000-13,000 result in long lines at both. There is no way to sell beer through the current concession areas. It would require some type of a temporary/portable set-up. And with that come concerns with crowding/congestion in the concourse areas. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be an easy fix.

Club 71 has two concession stand where club seaters pick up their prepaid soft drinks and beer. The beer tap is right next to the soft drinks so the people working the stand handle both. Wine has a separate booth inside club. I think I understand what your saying and cash sales to general fandom will have to have a stand alone set up which Aramark probably has equipment in storage. Congestion from beer sales? Maybe! But can easily be worked out.