Time for Stig to move on?

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Haven’t commented on this thread yet, didn’t want to, but I have noticed a couple of things. Before I get into them I want to state I believe Stig is capable of taking us to the national championship and winning it. I’m beginning to question that a bit now with the course of this season, but I’m still sticking with that position. Which is part of what I noticed in this thread.

There are obviously two groups on this thread, those defending Stig and those questioning him. And both of those groups have quite loudly proclaimed their positions and their reasoning and now the entire thread is revolving into name calling and ego contests. However, of the two groups I have noticed some interesting things. A) that the folks defending Stig have very different expectations of the program B) those people feel that we need still more invested in the program to be where the other group expects us to be C) there is a pretty obvious (to me) divide between the basketball first and the football first fans. The last point will get me the most grief interestingly enough IMO.

The reason I stated that I think Stig can take us to the Championship is for two reasons. First because I don’t think we built $120mil in facilities to compete for conference championships and second, because I haven’t seen anyone else who is pro Stig do it. In fact, all of those arguments I’ve seen aren’t that Stig is capable of greater heights, but hand wringing and finger wagging about what might happen if the next coach isn’t as successful. It’s a very South Dakotan argument. Be thankful for what you have. Many grab stats to back up just how good the last years have been compared to he rest of the country, have said how we shouldn’t compare ourselves to NDSU because those goals are impossible (I bet many thought what we have now was impossible), or just outright said they are happy competing for conference titles. I would argue those thought processes, in order, aren’t in line with the goals of the program, are demeaning to the effort and money put into the program, and are born of a basketball mindset where a mid major winning the natty is near impossible. Personally I vehemently disagree with all those points, and I think that’s the bigger rub here. Most of the basketball fans are more pleased with any success with football than anything, it’s more of a secondary fandom for them than anything. And if you are one of those people and are being honest you will agree. I’m that way with basketball. I’ll be upset when we lose rivalry games, or when we lose in the tourney, but I’m not nearly as emotionally invested as I am with football.

As to Stig being a good coach, that’s obviously true. You can post stats all day about it. But I haven’t seen a single person say they think he can win a natty. Even our bison friend TAB has said he’s a good coach, but I’ve had many, many bison fans in Fargo ask me if I think Stig can win a natty. Just as many have told me they think Stig is what’s holding us back. I agree till my dying breath with them about that, but this seasons results are making me looks silly and giving me pause. I think the real question isn’t if Stig should stay. I think everyone mostly agrees he will ride off into the sunset on his own terms, and deservedly so. It’s if he’s a championship caliber coach. Many of us have that as an expectation. To compete for a natty. And that doesn’t include going to Fargo and getting wore out and sent home. We see the opportunity in front of this program to build the fanbase, to reach heights never dreamed of by many in the state, and to take a death grip on generations of fans to come in SD and the area. So we get extremely frustrated when we have the tools and are poised to do that only to piss each opportunity down our legs. Thus the birth of threads like these.


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Making the playoffs is the definition of competing for a national championship. If fans want to come up with a different definition, that is fine but they are objectively wrong.

SDSU has competed for a national championship more consistently than all but a handful of teams. If the expectation is to advance further in the playoffs, just last year the team came closer than ever before.

These facts are lost on some fans, for reasons I really cannot comprehend. The only things I can come up with are that they dislike Stig or are so jealous of NDSU that they have lost the ability to reason.

A fan who expects to compete for a national championship should be pleased with the SDSU football program. The program is meeting your expectations. That doesn't mean fans (myself included) can't be unhappy with specific games/performances.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Maybe we just need to start a thread "Coaching Criticisms". That way people won't instantly assume you want the coach fired just because we have questions about his coaching style/technique/scheme.

I like this idea.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Making the playoffs is the definition of competing for a national championship. If fans want to come up with a different definition, that is fine but they are objectively wrong.

I think it is a matter of semantics for me. Yes, making the playoffs gives you the opportunity to compete for the title. But when it comes to competing for a title I would much rather this team was in the group consisting of SHSU, NDSU, and JMU over the group consisting of Lehigh, St. Francis, and NC A&T

We made the men's and women's basketball tournaments, would that be considered "competing" for the national championship? I think that it is great that we have made the playoffs, don't get me wrong. But I don't see anything wrong with expecting more from a program.

[CappinHard]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Making the playoffs is the definition of competing for a national championship. If fans want to come up with a different definition, that is fine but they are objectively wrong.

SDSU has competed for a national championship more consistently than all but a handful of teams. If the expectation is to advance further in the playoffs, just last year the team came closer than ever before.

These facts are lost on some fans, for reasons I really cannot comprehend. The only things I can come up with are that they dislike Stig or are so jealous of NDSU that they have lost the ability to reason.

A fan who expects to compete for a national championship should be pleased with the SDSU football program. The program is meeting your expectations. That doesn't mean fans (myself included) can't be unhappy with specific games/performances.

The arrogance of this post is impressive.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Making the playoffs is the definition of competing for a national championship. If fans want to come up with a different definition, that is fine but they are objectively wrong.

SDSU has competed for a national championship more consistently than all but a handful of teams. If the expectation is to advance further in the playoffs, just last year the team came closer than ever before.

These facts are lost on some fans, for reasons I really cannot comprehend. The only things I can come up with are that they dislike Stig or are so jealous of NDSU that they have lost the ability to reason.

A fan who expects to compete for a national championship should be pleased with the SDSU football program. The program is meeting your expectations. That doesn't mean fans (myself included) can't be unhappy with specific games/performances.

2016 @NDSU 36-10 quarters
2015 @Montana 24-17 1st round (24-0 at halftime)
2014 @NDSU 27-24 2nd round (Zenner's senior year)
2013 @E Wash 41-17 2nd round
2012 @NDSU 28-3 2nd round
2011 No playoffs
2010 No playoffs
2009 @Montana 61-48 (The game we led by about 40 at one point)


I guess if you want to apply this broad definition of just making the playoffs is competing for a natty you can but does every team realistically have a shot at winning it all? If you say yes you're objectively wrong. Since 2009 we've made the playoffs 6 times. Pretty good right? But with the exception of Zenner's senior year we've gotten our ass handed to us on the road. Maybe we turn things around this year and win out and we can have a seed where can host some games and not get fed into Fargo. You can hold your breath.

We just aren't consistent enough for whatever reason (coaching, scheme, talent, depth, etc.) where we can win enough during the regular season to set us up for success in the playoffs. Hell last year we had a seed and went into Fargo after beating them during the regular season and got worked. I sure don't feel like we've had a legit shot at winning it all last year. Every year I hope like hell we win but I'd like to get to a point where I expect we win.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

2016 @NDSU 36-10 quarters
2015 @Montana 24-17 1st round (24-0 at halftime)
2014 @NDSU 27-24 2nd round (Zenner's senior year)
2013 @E Wash 41-17 2nd round
2012 @NDSU 28-3 2nd round
2011 No playoffs
2010 No playoffs
2009 @Montana 61-48 (The game we led by about 40 at one point)


I guess if you want to apply this broad definition of just making the playoffs is competing for a natty you can but does every team realistically have a shot at winning it all? If you say yes you're objectively wrong. Since 2009 we've made the playoffs 6 times. Pretty good right? But with the exception of Zenner's senior year we've gotten our ass handed to us on the road. Maybe we turn things around this year and win out and we can have a seed where can host some games and not get fed into Fargo. You can hold your breath.

We just aren't consistent enough for whatever reason (coaching, scheme, talent, depth, etc.) where we can win enough during the regular season to set us up for success in the playoffs. Hell last year we had a seed and went into Fargo after beating them during the regular season and got worked. I sure don't feel like we've had a legit shot at winning it all last year. Every year I hope like hell we win but I'd like to get to a point where I expect we win.

Determining a realistic shot of winning it all would be a subjective assessment, not an objective one.

Subjective conclusions are based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. Objective conclusions are fact-based, measurable and observable.

Objectively, we had a shot to win the national championship in each of our playoff seasons until we were eliminated from the playoffs. Objectively, we didn't have a shot at the national championship the years we didn't qualify for the playoffs.

[TransAmBison]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Determining a realistic shot of winning it all would be a subjective assessment, not an objective one.

Subjective conclusions are based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. Objective conclusions are fact-based, measurable and observable.

Objectively, we had a shot to win the national championship in each of our playoff seasons until we were eliminated from the playoffs. Objectively, we didn't have a shot at the national championship the years we didn't qualify for the playoffs.

One could use the Sagarin ratings to form objective probabilities.

Last year:
Team.................................. Qtr.. Semi... Final
76.82 (1) North Dakota State 80.1% 61.8% 39.8%
67.43 (8) South Dakota State 19.9%.. 8.0%. 3.0%
68.40 (5) Sam Houston State 42.1% 12.3%.. 5.0%
69.07 (4) James Madison...... 57.9% 17.9%. 7.6%

68.57 Youngstown State....... 63.0% 20.8%.. 7.5%
66.12 Wofford.................... 37.0% 10.0%.. 3.0%
56.29 Richmond.................... 7.5%. 1.8%.. 0.2%
73.82 (2) Eastern Washington 92.5% 67.3% 33.9%

3% chance wasn't much of a chance...objectively speaking. But then James Madison only had a 7.6% chance...so there's that.

[thumper_76]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Determining a realistic shot of winning it all would be a subjective assessment, not an objective one.

Subjective conclusions are based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. Objective conclusions are fact-based, measurable and observable.

Objectively, we had a shot to win the national championship in each of our playoff seasons until we were eliminated from the playoffs. Objectively, we didn't have a shot at the national championship the years we didn't qualify for the playoffs.

No, according to your high and mighty definition we compete for a national championship just by playing in a conference with an AQ to the playoffs. You know it’s ok for people to have higher expectations than being happy with the playoffs right?


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[SlapJack]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Objectively, we had a shot to win the national championship in each of our playoff seasons until we were eliminated from the playoffs.

Somebody queue the GIF from Dumb and Dumber: So you're saying there's a chance!!!

At the beginning of any game, both teams have a chance of winning, but you can't objectively say Drake had much of a chance to beat us. There is a reason why professional gamblers set lines.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

One could use the Sagarin ratings to form objective probabilities.

Last year:
Team.................................. Qtr.. Semi... Final
76.82 (1) North Dakota State 80.1% 61.8% 39.8%
67.43 (8) South Dakota State 19.9%.. 8.0%. 3.0%
68.40 (5) Sam Houston State 42.1% 12.3%.. 5.0%
69.07 (4) James Madison...... 57.9% 17.9%. 7.6%

68.57 Youngstown State....... 63.0% 20.8%.. 7.5%
66.12 Wofford.................... 37.0% 10.0%.. 3.0%
56.29 Richmond.................... 7.5%. 1.8%.. 0.2%
73.82 (2) Eastern Washington 92.5% 67.3% 33.9%

3% chance wasn't much of a chance...objectively speaking.

Very good!

SDSU had a 3% chance. What were UNI's chances?

Your analysis would seem to prove the fact that qualifying for the playoffs is objectively competing for a national championship.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

No, according to your high and mighty definition we compete for a national championship just by playing in a conference with an AQ to the playoffs. You know it’s ok for people to have higher expectations than being happy with the playoffs right?


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You know we advanced further than ever before just last season, right?

[TransAmBison]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Very good!

SDSU had a 3% chance. What were UNI's chances?

Your analysis would seem to prove the fact that qualifying for the playoffs is objectively competing for a national championship.

Sure...if that's how you want to look at it. But looking at it objectively, not too many people would have put money on it.

Objectively, all the teams are playing for a NC at the beginning of the year. But an objective observer can determine that Indiana St will not reach that goal.

[thumper_76]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

You know we advanced further than ever before just last season, right?

Oh I’m more than aware. Just like you’re aware that your argument that just making the playoffs is competing for a national title is to degrade the people whose argument is wanting more from our program than a win in the playoffs followed by an exit in Fargo. JMU was able to do it. First try.


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[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Oh I’m more than aware. Just like you’re aware that your argument that just making the playoffs is competing for a national title is to degrade the people whose argument is wanting more from our program than a win in the playoffs followed by an exit in Fargo. JMU was able to do it. First try.


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Is making the quarterfinals competing for a national title? Because we did that last year.

I have good news for people who want more than 1 win and Fargo exit! We did that last year too, when we qualified for a first round bye.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Time for Stig to move on?

Determining a realistic shot of winning it all would be a subjective assessment, not an objective one.

Subjective conclusions are based on personal opinions, interpretations, points of view, emotions and judgment. Objective conclusions are fact-based, measurable and observable.

Objectively, we had a shot to win the national championship in each of our playoff seasons until we were eliminated from the playoffs. Objectively, we didn't have a shot at the national championship the years we didn't qualify for the playoffs.

So, objectively, the team has taken a step back this season. They have already doubled the amount of losses in conference.

Edit: added "in conference"