2019 Recruiting List

[Cowbell]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

I think there are a lot of good and well-meaning people from small towns who are trying to do the best with what they have. There are no easy answers and even with consolidation efforts there are struggles getting enough guys to round-out football rosters. So, six man football might be a "joke" to some people, but for small towns who love football it is the only option available to them.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Six man is just delaying the inevitable though. These places are not going to see enrollment growth. Though it's sad to see these rural places struggle, and it's honorable to try and save what they can. But population dynamics aren't going to change, and it's all a stop-gap measure. The result is way more divisions than we need in the state. 6 man will not change any of that, it'll just let a few schools field a team for a couple more years until they eventually Co op or close altogether. It's sad, and I hate to see it, but that's where all of the schools who struggle to field a 9 man team are going. And in 20 years, the schools who field strong 9 man teams today are going to be considering dropping to six man.

85 % of the land in the state has been losing population since the 20s. Frederick Jackson Turner, a famous historian in the late 19th century, had a standard of population in each county in the West that he used to classify them as "Frontier", i.e. low enough population density to be considered uncivilized. To put it in perspective, South Dakota has many more counties classified as "frontier" today than it ever had in 1920's.

And that number increases each decade. Again, you feel for the small, rural places that are barely hanging on, but it's a trend that isn't going to be changing anytime this century.

When a school district can't find 9 boys between ages 14 and 18 to play football, is the answer really to move the target down to six?

[GopherHole]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Mixed bag with six man football. I've officiated a couple of six man state championships in Nebraska and it is fun to watch the support those towns have for their tiny schools. At the same time, I've also officiated O'Gorman vs Yankton in the Dump for a championship and that atmosphere was unbelievable!

This Saturday, my crew is traveling two hours west to officiate a six man game in western Nebraska. If these small schools would consolidate/coop for sports, we may not have such a shortage of officials so that crews like mine would not have to work on a Saturday. However, the truth is that many of these really rural schools are trying to do what ever they can to create an opportunity for their kids. Stapleton HS cooped with McPherson County for football just so they could put together a six man football team.

Would it be nice if they just closed both schools and had them merge with another community to form a bigger school? Sounds great until you look at the options. If those two schools merged, they would have one high school in a town that is 26 miles from the other school. From one end of the school district to the other would be close to 60 miles. Yet they are still too small to play 8-man football in Nebraska. If McPherson County would merge with Mullen High School to the north, it would be 36 miles from Stapleton. To the west of Tryon is Arthur, another 6-man school - that is 40 miles away. Hershey, NE offers a nice size 11-man football program and is the next school to the south - at 47 miles. Stapleton has more options as it could merge with the school to the east of them, at only 21 miles to Arnold. Except that Arnold already merged with a school to the east of them in Callaway. From Stapleton to Callaway is 42 miles. To the north and north west are two options for Stapleton: Valentine is 102 miles and Dunning is 55 miles. Finally, the kids in Stapleton could also pick one of two high schools in North Platte and that is only 30 miles. Unless you live in the north end of the district. Those kids would only have to travel close to 40 miles each way to pick from another tiny school in Dunning. If they chose a different school, it would be at least 60 miles. Maybe we should just fence off some of these really remote lands and let Ted Turner's operation run buffalo. Then we wouldn't have to worry about having a school out in these areas to serve these kids.

Six man football can be hard to watch, but for many of these rural kids, they really don't have much of a choice. So for our crew this weekend, we will carve out seven hours of our Saturday to create an opportunity for these kids to play football. (That's after doing another game the night before.)

[mnjackrbt]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Not to mention the distance you are now traveling to play games. You may already be traveling one hour in your own school district, and another few hours to reach other districts.

[slosho]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

But the small towns can't compete with the bigger towns... Isn't that what was said when they screwed up the State Basketball tournaments by splitting into 3 divisions? A state the size of South Dakota should have three FB divisions (11A, 11B, 9 man) and two basketball divisions (A, B). Don't even get me started on 6 man FB. We have it on the Eastern Plains of Colorado and it is a joke. They may as well be playing flag football.

If you can't field a 9 man FB team you should be in a coop or your school needs to think about consolidation.

My earlier comment reflects my disdain for the split of 11AA to 11AA and 11AAA which will forever irritate me. If pierre and huron cant compete for a state title the answer isn't to give everybody a trophy. Up your game man! When I was young and in SF it seemed the smaller towns dominated (outside of OG) because their kids played together since they were very young. whatever happened to that?

[NebraskaJack]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Mixed bag with six man football. I've officiated a couple of six man state championships in Nebraska and it is fun to watch the support those towns have for their tiny schools. At the same time, I've also officiated O'Gorman vs Yankton in the Dump for a championship and that atmosphere was unbelievable!

This Saturday, my crew is traveling two hours west to officiate a six man game in western Nebraska. If these small schools would consolidate/coop for sports, we may not have such a shortage of officials so that crews like mine would not have to work on a Saturday. However, the truth is that many of these really rural schools are trying to do what ever they can to create an opportunity for their kids. Stapleton HS cooped with McPherson County for football just so they could put together a six man football team.

Would it be nice if they just closed both schools and had them merge with another community to form a bigger school? Sounds great until you look at the options. If those two schools merged, they would have one high school in a town that is 26 miles from the other school. From one end of the school district to the other would be close to 60 miles. Yet they are still too small to play 8-man football in Nebraska. If McPherson County would merge with Mullen High School to the north, it would be 36 miles from Stapleton. To the west of Tryon is Arthur, another 6-man school - that is 40 miles away. Hershey, NE offers a nice size 11-man football program and is the next school to the south - at 47 miles. Stapleton has more options as it could merge with the school to the east of them, at only 21 miles to Arnold. Except that Arnold already merged with a school to the east of them in Callaway. From Stapleton to Callaway is 42 miles. To the north and north west are two options for Stapleton: Valentine is 102 miles and Dunning is 55 miles. Finally, the kids in Stapleton could also pick one of two high schools in North Platte and that is only 30 miles. Unless you live in the north end of the district. Those kids would only have to travel close to 40 miles each way to pick from another tiny school in Dunning. If they chose a different school, it would be at least 60 miles. Maybe we should just fence off some of these really remote lands and let Ted Turner's operation run buffalo. Then we wouldn't have to worry about having a school out in these areas to serve these kids.

Six man football can be hard to watch, but for many of these rural kids, they really don't have much of a choice. So for our crew this weekend, we will carve out seven hours of our Saturday to create an opportunity for these kids to play football. (That's after doing another game the night before.)

Good post!

Pretty much said what I was thinking but used different examples. My hometown would have about 5 options to consolidate with, all about 40 miles away. That means with prep time a kid would have an hour each way plus a 2 hour practice putting them back in their home town at 730 each night. If they live on the far edge of the district it's another 20 minutes home. These farm kids have chores after they get home, not Fortnite. Six man football isn't the end of the world. It's a matter of pride for these small communities, ask anyone who is from a town where their school closed.

As for all those kids in rural schools, adding a 6 man football division isnt about a participation trophy it is about participation.

[jackdaniel]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Six man is just delaying the inevitable though. These places are not going to see enrollment growth. Though it's sad to see these rural places struggle, and it's honorable to try and save what they can. But population dynamics aren't going to change, and it's all a stop-gap measure. The result is way more divisions than we need in the state. 6 man will not change any of that, it'll just let a few schools field a team for a couple more years until they eventually Co op or close altogether. It's sad, and I hate to see it, but that's where all of the schools who struggle to field a 9 man team are going. And in 20 years, the schools who field strong 9 man teams today are going to be considering dropping to six man.

85 % of the land in the state has been losing population since the 20s. Frederick Jackson Turner, a famous historian in the late 19th century, had a standard of population in each county in the West that he used to classify them as "Frontier", i.e. low enough population density to be considered uncivilized. To put it in perspective, South Dakota has many more counties classified as "frontier" today than it ever had in 1920's.

And that number increases each decade. Again, you feel for the small, rural places that are barely hanging on, but it's a trend that isn't going to be changing anytime this century.

When a school district can't find 9 boys between ages 14 and 18 to play football, is the answer really to move the target down to six?

Back in the old days farms were smaller and still could provide a living for the farmer and his family.There were more people in small towns and the school districts.Farms have been growing in size and have become a big business basically because the machinery improved drastically to allow this to happen ,there's much more like modern tech applied to farming,etc i'm not familiar with (never been in farming,but respect those that are).Bottom line is, as farms increased in size, the population dwindled away.So,we have six man football in some of these communities that used to have thriving towns ,it's progress,some things are good because of progress ,unfortunately, there is some downside to it also.Kind of a poor post, but you see what I'm trying to say.

[jacksfan29]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Good post!

Pretty much said what I was thinking but used different examples. My hometown would have about 5 options to consolidate with, all about 40 miles away. That means with prep time a kid would have an hour each way plus a 2 hour practice putting them back in their home town at 730 each night. If they live on the far edge of the district it's another 20 minutes home. These farm kids have chores after they get home, not Fortnite. Six man football isn't the end of the world. It's a matter of pride for these small communities, ask anyone who is from a town where their school closed.

As for all those kids in rural schools, adding a 6 man football division isnt about a participation trophy it is about participation.

So does the Association intend to drop a 9 man class? Right now South Dakota has 7 classes of football. South Dakota has a population of 870,000. Colorado, my adopted home state for the past 25 years, has a population of 5.6 million and the state has 7 classes of football. In Colorado there is one eight man division and one six man division. The rest of the schools play 11 man football. If South Dakota intends to add a six man division they need to drop, at a minimum 9B football to make me believe that it isn't about a participation trophy.

Montana, at 1 million is probably closest to being like South Dakota in regards to small towns, larger cities/towns and travel. Montana, with a population of 1 million has 5 classes of football. One 8 man, one 6 man, the other 3 play 11 man.

If they really want 6 man football, re-structure. One 6 man, one 9 man, 11B, 11A, 11AA. if they do that I'll accept that it isn't about getting a state tournament participation trophy.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

So does the Association intend to drop a 9 man class?

Yes.

[Bits]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

So does the Association intend to drop a 9 man class? Right now South Dakota has 7 classes of football. South Dakota has a population of 870,000. Colorado, my adopted home state for the past 25 years, has a population of 5.6 million and the state has 7 classes of football. In Colorado there is one eight man division and one six man division. The rest of the schools play 11 man football. If South Dakota intends to add a six man division they need to drop, at a minimum 9B football to make me believe that it isn't about a participation trophy.

Montana, at 1 million is probably closest to being like South Dakota in regards to small towns, larger cities/towns and travel. Montana, with a population of 1 million has 5 classes of football. One 8 man, one 6 man, the other 3 play 11 man.

If they really want 6 man football, re-structure. One 6 man, one 9 man, 11B, 11A, 11AA. if they do that I'll accept that it isn't about getting a state tournament participation trophy.

This thread got massively derailed, so naturally I'll use it as my opportunity to come out of my non-football hibernation and profess for a minute.
Without much knowledge of the situation, I am in support of having 1, I repeat 1, 6-man football class IF that is what is required to still give some of these kids the opportunity to play. I just looked at 2 schools schedules that play 9AA football. 1 of the teams does not have a single other 9AA team on their schedule. All of their opponents are either 9A or 9B. The other team had only half of their schedule made up of other 9AA teams. How does this make sense? Do we have 3 classes of 9 man football to increase opportunities? Do we have 3 classes because the smaller schools can't compete with the larger schools? Scheduling would suggest that's not the case.

Put me in the camp of 2 11-man classes, 1 9-man class, and if necessary...1 6-man class.

[hometownjack]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

This thread got massively derailed, so naturally I'll use it as my opportunity to come out of my non-football hibernation and profess for a minute.
Without much knowledge of the situation, I am in support of having 1, I repeat 1, 6-man football class IF that is what is required to still give some of these kids the opportunity to play. I just looked at 2 schools schedules that play 9AA football. 1 of the teams does not have a single other 9AA team on their schedule. All of their opponents are either 9A or 9B. The other team had only half of their schedule made up of other 9AA teams. How does this make sense? Do we have 3 classes of 9 man football to increase opportunities? Do we have 3 classes because the smaller schools can't compete with the larger schools? Scheduling would suggest that's not the case.

Put me in the camp of 2 11-man classes, 1 9-man class, and if necessary...1 6-man class.

There has not been a Sioux Falls team knocked out of the playoffs by a team outside of Sioux Falls with the exception of Brandon Valley since 2009. We need at least 3 classes of 11 man. Sioux Falls teams playing against the higher enrollment 11A teams could pose a safety issue. They are that much bigger faster stronger.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

This thread got massively derailed, so naturally I'll use it as my opportunity to come out of my non-football hibernation and profess for a minute.
Without much knowledge of the situation, I am in support of having 1, I repeat 1, 6-man football class IF that is what is required to still give some of these kids the opportunity to play. I just looked at 2 schools schedules that play 9AA football. 1 of the teams does not have a single other 9AA team on their schedule. All of their opponents are either 9A or 9B. The other team had only half of their schedule made up of other 9AA teams. How does this make sense? Do we have 3 classes of 9 man football to increase opportunities? Do we have 3 classes because the smaller schools can't compete with the larger schools? Scheduling would suggest that's not the case.

Put me in the camp of 2 11-man classes, 1 9-man class, and if necessary...1 6-man class.

In rural situations schools will schedule their closest competition regardless of classification, it wouldn't be financially feasible to travel to schools only in their classification . Take for instance North Border in 9AA, their six closest competitors in 9AA are from 2 to 2.5 hours away. Now take into account some kids may be driving an hour or more just to get to their new co-op school. The schools then are left with the choice of playing a 7pm game and have kids get home at 1 in the morning or play at 4 in the afternoon with no one in attendance.

Rural schools are a completely different world than what most 11 man schools face.

[slosho]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

There has not been a Sioux Falls team knocked out of the playoffs by a team outside of Sioux Falls with the exception of Brandon Valley since 2009. We need at least 3 classes of 11 man. Sioux Falls teams playing against the higher enrollment 11A teams could pose a safety issue. They are that much bigger faster stronger.

Disagree.

[hometownjack]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Slosho I would agree with your early statement that 11AA and 11AAA could go back to being in same class. However that only had 16/17 teams in it. In order to get down to 2 classes of 11 man you would have to combine 11A and 11B and that would be over 40 teams. More than likely they would move up some A teams to AA to even it out. I just don't think Lennox needs to be playing Sioux Falls Washington is all.

[jacksfan29]

Re: 2019 Recruiting List

Yes.

That's a good start. Now drop the other 9 man class so you have one division of 9 man FB along with one 6 man.