GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

[goon]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

A couple of plays that have been on my mind all weekend as I rehash the game in my mind. These are in cronilogical of when they happened, not in order of significance.

Second, SDSU drive of the game and going in for another TD. TC had Goedert wide open on a nice out route or flag, not sure what it was, but threw it short and skipped it off the turf. To me, 14-0 feels different than 10-0. Call me crazy.

Obviously the 3rd and 18 and 3rd and 23 that the Bison converted were turning points. IF we stop either one of those our defense gets their wind and is not exhausted for the rest of the game. I feel like the 3rd downs that were converted after that were about lack of execution because of fatigue. Langer, Soulek and Whitsel were gassed before we even kicked off in the second half. Props to MJAlum for calling the loss of Gottlob as big key.

The PI's on Jordan Brown and Dallas Brown didn't look terrible in real time. The Bison replay angles didn't show alot in my opinion. Anyone who watched ESPN have a different opinion?

Again, these are just turning points in my mind. Haven't watched any replays so this is all from memory.

Maybe its me and sour grapes, but the replay official in 3 times in the first half, favored NDSU, I figured it was the same guy who didn't see Goederts TD last time there. The TD that was called back to start, the guys announcing said it wasn't totally clear where the ball was and if his foot was out, that the TD should have stood. nope went NDSUs way. The 2nd was on the 3rd and 20 what ever it was. It looked like where he hit the ground and where the spot was was atleast a foot or so over. the chains seemed to be moving which seemed like a favorable spot, but should have been measured. They replayed and the guys on TV again said that he appeared he might be a bit short. Nope, NDSU got it. Finally on TCs fumble to end the 2nd, his knee appeared to be down as he was getting tackled before the ball left his hand. Looked like he should have been marked down. Nope, NDSU gets it again. Thankfully we scored on the 1st drive still, and stopped them on the final drive of the half.

Final think I wish I saw in the first half. When TC short threw JW and short of the 1st down. Seemed like a chance to go for it on 4th and short. You know, leave nothing on the field sort of situation. Nope, we punt to let NDSU eat up the entire qtr. Felt like we went conservative this game, when last time up we went for broke. We didn't coach with a killer instinct and the players didn't play with one either.

[mango4]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

Maybe its me and sour grapes, but the replay official in 3 times in the first half, favored NDSU, I figured it was the same guy who didn't see Goederts TD last time there. The TD that was called back to start, the guys announcing said it wasn't totally clear where the ball was and if his foot was out, that the TD should have stood. nope went NDSUs way. The 2nd was on the 3rd and 20 what ever it was. It looked like where he hit the ground and where the spot was was atleast a foot or so over. the chains seemed to be moving which seemed like a favorable spot, but should have been measured. They replayed and the guys on TV again said that he appeared he might be a bit short. Nope, NDSU got it. Finally on TCs fumble to end the 2nd, his knee appeared to be down as he was getting tackled before the ball left his hand. Looked like he should have been marked down. Nope, NDSU gets it again. Thankfully we scored on the 1st drive still, and stopped them on the final drive of the half.

Final think I wish I saw in the first half. When TC short threw JW and short of the 1st down. Seemed like a chance to go for it on 4th and short. You know, leave nothing on the field sort of situation. Nope, we punt to let NDSU eat up the entire qtr. Felt like we went conservative this game, when last time up we went for broke. We didn't coach with a killer instinct and the players didn't play with one either.

The only one I have a gripe with is the touchdown that was called back. IMO, couldn't really tell where the ball was when his foot went out of bounds so should have stood. The one on the 3rd and 23, it was too close to call so the play stands as called. And no way was TC's knee down when the ball started coming out.

[TransAmBison]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

The only one I have a gripe with is the touchdown that was called back. IMO, couldn't really tell where the ball was when his foot went out of bounds so should have stood. The one on the 3rd and 23, it was too close to call so the play stands as called. And no way was TC's knee down when the ball started coming out.

The knee being down wasn't even the question...it was if his hand was moving forward or not. That one wasn't a hard call. The first touchdown getting called back...I am curious as to what technology they used to zero in to make the final call. Being biased, it was obvious he was out...not sure how it looks to unbiased eyes.

[mango4]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

The knee being down wasn't even the question...it was if his hand was moving forward or not. That one wasn't a hard call. The first touchdown getting called back...I am curious as to what technology they used to zero in to make the final call. Being biased, it was obvious he was out...not sure how it looks to unbiased eyes.

Right, but Goon said his knee was down when it clearly wasn't. And his arm was clearly not moving forward when the ball came out. It was the correct call all around.

[91jack]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

The only one I have a gripe with is the touchdown that was called back. IMO, couldn't really tell where the ball was when his foot went out of bounds so should have stood. The one on the 3rd and 23, it was too close to call so the play stands as called. And no way was TC's knee down when the ball started coming out.

I agree that I don't think the touchdown should have been called back.
I thought that were a foot or two short on the 3rd and 23 but it was close.
I think TC did fumble the ball and his arm wasn't going forward so they got that one correct.

This is my opinion on all three calls.

[BisonBohl]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

I agree that I don't think the touchdown should have been called back.
I thought that were a foot or two short on the 3rd and 23 but it was close.
I think TC did fumble the ball and his arm wasn't going forward so they got that one correct.

This is my opinion on all three calls.

Didn't the pass end up going backwards anyway??? If the knee wasnt down it was a clear fumble. Sure looked like his knee wasnt down to me.

[mango4]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

Didn't the pass end up going backwards anyway??? If the knee wasnt down it was a clear fumble. Sure looked like his knee wasnt down to me.

Correct. I think there's only one person on here that things it was the incorrect call.

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

The knee being down wasn't even the question...it was if his hand was moving forward or not. That one wasn't a hard call. The first touchdown getting called back...I am curious as to what technology they used to zero in to make the final call. Being biased, it was obvious he was out...not sure how it looks to unbiased eyes.

1. TC - It was a fumble. Knee not down, hand not moving forward. Easy call.

2. Mengarelli was OOB at the half yard line. It was totally clear, regardless of what the announcers said.

3. I did think some ball spots were iffy. Speaking of giving up first downs, (and keeping in mind I'm not a football savant by any means) specifically on that 3rd/23 play....I see SDSU tackle guys the wrong way alot (pushing the ball carrier for positive yards, rather than negative yards.) I suppose a lot of that has to do with momentum and where the tacklers are coming from (apparently from behind the play a lot), but on more than one occasion we allowed first downs because we pushed the ball carrier the wrong way.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

2. Mengarelli was OOB at the half yard line. It was totally clear, regardless of what the announcers said.

Small correction. It was Kyle Paris.

Also I don't agree it was that clear. At least from the replays shown on TV. He definitely stepped on the sideline, but what you couldn't tell is where the ball was when that happened. From the TV replays you didn't know if the ball was over the goal line when he stepped on the sideline. At any rate it's a moot point because we scored the TD two plays later.

[jakejc795]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

1. TC - It was a fumble. Knee not down, hand not moving forward. Easy call.

2. Mengarelli was OOB at the half yard line. It was totally clear, regardless of what the announcers said.

3. I did think some ball spots were iffy. Speaking of giving up first downs, (and keeping in mind I'm not a football savant by any means) specifically on that 3rd/23 play....I see SDSU tackle guys the wrong way alot (pushing the ball carrier for positive yards, rather than negative yards.) I suppose a lot of that has to do with momentum and where the tacklers are coming from (apparently from behind the play a lot), but on more than one occasion we allowed first downs because we pushed the ball carrier the wrong way.

Guess the Paris run wasn't as obvious to me. Excellent point regarding the tackling. That frustrated me too

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

Small correction. It was Kyle Paris.

Also I don't agree it was that clear. At least from the replays shown on TV. He definitely stepped on the sideline, but what you couldn't tell is where the ball was when that happened. From the TV replays you didn't know if the ball was over the goal line when he stepped on the sideline. At any rate it's a moot point because we scored the TD two plays later.

Yes, Paris, thanks...agreed on the mootness now.

[Hareofthedog]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

The one replay on the spotting of the ball was a mess. If the lines on the tv are used for reference they spotted the ball on the 39 and a half yard line, the spot stood. The next snap the ball was spotted behind the 39 and that would have been short of a first down. Didn't matter to measure because the had markers were moved before the replay even. Oh well.

Can you explain why referee SottYoung was talking with the fans in the north end zone. He was there in the second quarter right behind the goal post at the seats. He was there again in the fourth quarter. The referee was really interested all game with the north end zone fans. If the visiting team didn't have to be seated in section 23, side of end zone then maybe seeing the ref up with the fans would not have stood out. I would like Mr Young to explain his interest. I've never seen a white hat at the rail talking with fans before when the game is happening. I would attach pictures but then it would show the truth as well.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

One question I had, don't the sideline officials usually run in to spot the ball? Or am I imagining that?

On Saturday, I seem to remember the sideline officials standing where they saw the play end and an on field official placing the ball.

I could be misremembering all of this, but I'm not going back to watch that debacle of a game again. I could be completely off base on how officials work games or confusing pro/college officials.

On the touchdown replay, as I understand the rule they have to have definitive evidence to overturn the call on the field. I didn't see a camera angle that showed where the ball was when he stepped out. The guy in the booth did, apparently.

[Hareofthedog]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

Indisputable evidence to reverse a call. The TD did not have this, no way. The play should not been reversed. The Jacks scored anyway but that leads to other questions with the Ohio Valley officiating crew. On the twelve play drive, they missed delay of game, snapped when clock was zero, the play after bison #8 should have been flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct after the whistle.

[RowdyRabbit]

Re: GDT: @NDSU in the Quarterfinals

Indisputable evidence to reverse a call. The TD did not have this, no way. The play should not been reversed. The Jacks scored anyway but that leads to other questions with the Ohio Valley officiating crew. On the twelve play drive, they missed delay of game, snapped when clock was zero, the play after bison #8 should have been flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct after the whistle.

Since it keeps getting brought up, I'll keep defending the reversal.

Watch the replay.

The third camera angle, at the 11:37 mark...based on the previous two angles(11:23 and 11:30), you can clearly see that when Paris' left foot makes contact with the turf, it is out of bounds. No, you can't see the ball because he's behind the ref, but you can clearly see the goal line, and you can clearly see Paris (the ball) isn't anywhere near the goal line, until almost a second later, when Paris hand and ball emerge from behind the ref and cross the goal line.

Paris reversal.jpg (foot is already down out of bounds)
Paris reversal2.jpg (almost a second later ball crosses goal line)


I guess my glasses aren't blue and yellow enough, but it was a pretty simple reversal.

Not to mention the 4th angle which is pretty straightforward as well....at the 11:46 mark.
Paris reversal3.jpg