Taking the next step

[CappinHard]

While we're all understandably bummed about losing to Cal Poly because of how difficult it makes the road to the playoffs and because we don't normally lose ooc games. I think there needs to be a wider point of view conversation regarding what SDSU football needs to do to take the next step. While I don't agree with everything that comes out of ESPN 99.1 in Sioux Falls, Nick Goeman put out a pretty good piece on this topic.

http://espn991.com/sdsu-needs-to-do-...ome-next-ndsu/

I can't really argue with anything that he said. First off, the attendance is a big deal, and yes Fargo has more people closer, but I agree with Nick in saying that SDSU needs to embrace Sioux Falls and figure out some creative ways to build the fan base there and get more people coming up to consistently go to games. Watertown is another larger town that from what I can tell doesn't really embrace SDSU. It seems like SDSU just tries to rely on alumni for their fan base. It's time to "build the brand" as some would say.

Recruiting, getting some swag and attitude, and simply winning are all huge as well. It seems like the only time SDSU has swag is when it ends up hitting the jackpot with a recruit that has that x factor, but it never seems to come from the coaches. Coaching is one thing he doesn't really touch on that I think is a really big factor. I love Stig and all, but I don't think this program takes the next big step until he's gone, which probably isn't too far away. I can see Stig's job being very desirable, so hopefully when that time comes we can get someone in here that is going to be able to take that next step. Recruit better, win more games, increase attendance, rejuvenate and bring some swag to the program. Coach Otz hasn't even coached a game yet, but it's clear to see that he's already making a difference for the basketball team. Again, I'm not saying we should boot Stig out the door, I'm very grateful for what he's done and the way he runs the program. I'm just saying that I don't think that SDSU football will get to the next level while he's here.

[Nidaros]

Re: Taking the next step

The Carr report over 10 years old and the model used in moving up to D1 recommended embracing SF for attendance. Good thinking that has worked to a certain degree. I seen Bison flags flying in many places in western Minnesota such as Fergus Falls. How many SDSU flags are flying in Lake Benton or even Pipestone? None! so we got work to do. NDSU has a population advantage to there east in Minnesota that SDSU does not have since the communities are under populated. I think 5 NC has many advantages. It's going take some time for the Dana to catch on, I don't see any reason to panic.

[scbison]

Re: Taking the next step

The Carr report almost 10 years old and the model used in moving up to D1 recommended embracing SF for attendance. Good thinking that has worked to a certain degree. I seen Bison flags flying in many places in western Minnesota such as Fergus Falls. How many SDSU flags are flying in Lake Benton or even Pipestone? None! so we got work to do. NDSU has a population advantage to there east in Minnesota that SDSU does not have since the communities are under populated. I think 5 NC has many advantages. It's going take some time for the Dana to catch on, I don't see any reason to panic.

The whole Fargo population aspect is overblown. I don't have the stats and am not looking them up, but Fargo is full of UND grads as you will see during Hockey season. Fargo hosts NCAA hockey regionals and UND has monthly booster meetings in Fargo. I would argue a good 1/3 of the Bison season ticket holders come from outside of Fargo. Combine that with a D2 school and a very well supported D3 in Moorhead.

[bigticket1]

Re: Taking the next step

While we're all understandably bummed about losing to Cal Poly because of how difficult it makes the road to the playoffs and because we don't normally lose ooc games. I think there needs to be a wider point of view conversation regarding what SDSU football needs to do to take the next step. While I don't agree with everything that comes out of ESPN 99.1 in Sioux Falls, Nick Goeman put out a pretty good piece on this topic.

http://espn991.com/sdsu-needs-to-do-...ome-next-ndsu/

I can't really argue with anything that he said. First off, the attendance is a big deal, and yes Fargo has more people closer, but I agree with Nick in saying that SDSU needs to embrace Sioux Falls and figure out some creative ways to build the fan base there and get more people coming up to consistently go to games. Watertown is another larger town that from what I can tell doesn't really embrace SDSU. It seems like SDSU just tries to rely on alumni for their fan base. It's time to "build the brand" as some would say.

Recruiting, getting some swag and attitude, and simply winning are all huge as well. It seems like the only time SDSU has swag is when it ends up hitting the jackpot with a recruit that has that x factor, but it never seems to come from the coaches. Coaching is one thing he doesn't really touch on that I think is a really big factor. I love Stig and all, but I don't think this program takes the next big step until he's gone, which probably isn't too far away. I can see Stig's job being very desirable, so hopefully when that time comes we can get someone in here that is going to be able to take that next step. Recruit better, win more games, increase attendance, rejuvenate and bring some swag to the program. Coach Otz hasn't even coached a game yet, but it's clear to see that he's already making a difference for the basketball team. Again, I'm not saying we should boot Stig out the door, I'm very grateful for what he's done and the way he runs the program. I'm just saying that I don't think that SDSU football will get to the next level while he's here.

How do you measure swag ? Do you use the S.W.A.G. method ?

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Taking the next step

I have a Jackrabbit flag flying in Tyler, MN if that counts

I think we also have a Jackrabbit radio affiliate in Pipestone. I know Tyler talked about them last year in his postgame show when they did the affiliate spotlight.

[mango4]

Re: Taking the next step

The whole Fargo population aspect is overblown. I don't have the stats and am not looking them up, but Fargo is full of UND grads as you will see during Hockey season. Fargo hosts NCAA hockey regionals and UND has monthly booster meetings in Fargo. I would argue a good 1/3 of the Bison season ticket holders come from outside of Fargo. Combine that with a D2 school and a very well supported D3 in Moorhead.

No it's no. There are over 230,000 people in the Fargo metro that have to drive 15 minutes to the Fargodome for a game. There are less than 23,000 people in Brookings. Yes, the Sioux Falls metro is larger but they also have to drive an hour each way for the game.

[scbison]

Re: Taking the next step

No it's no. There are over 230,000 people in the Fargo metro that have to drive 15 minutes to the Fargodome for a game. There are less than 23,000 people in Brookings. Yes, the Sioux Falls metro is larger but they also have to drive an hour each way for the game.

Starkville, MS has 21,000 people and fills up a 62,000 seat stadium. Jacksonville, AL has 12,000 people and fills up a 23,000 seat stadium. Pullman Washington has 21,000 people and fills up a 35,000 seat stadium

[JackJD]

Re: Taking the next step

Just a comment on cappinhard's note about growing the fan base in Watertown. I agree that Watertown is also a source for more fan support. I would not go so far as to say Watertown doesn't embrace SDSU but its certainly true that the number of fans from Watertown attending SDSU events has the potential for a lot of growth.

A lot of Jackrabbit gear being worn in Watertown and I see quite a few Watertown people at Jacks games. There can be a lot more. The Dunham's store in Watertown seems to be expanding its selection of Jacks gear. Employees of that store tell me that SDSU gear is easily the best seller and they have trouble keeping it on the racks. In my view, the interest is there but attendance at events has a lot of room for growth. I think if we simply stay on the current course -- and that includes having the success we've had in recent years -- the fan base and fan interest in Watertown will expand accordingly.

I've talked with alums in Watertown about trying to imitate what appears to be going on in Yankton with the Yankton Jacks group.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Taking the next step

Didn't we just have the second biggest crowd in our history at a game that didn't involve a regional rival? I think the next step with our program is to keep recruiting better and better athletes and continue to make the playoffs. Brookings County is about 30,000 people so, yes, Fargo has a big advantage. They draw their 19,000 to every game. Right now, we're averaging about 16,000 from our little county and surrounding areas and, no doubt, from Sioux Falls. We have the right facilities now. The coaching staff knows they need to win. I'm not sure what dramatic changes are actually necessary. All the metrics (recruiting, winning, facilities, budget) are trending up. I get that the loss to what is apparently a very, very good Cal Poly team has dampened enthusiasm somewhat. But I still expect a good crowd Saturday. I also expect a win against a top ten team.

Edit: One thing we do need to do in order to take the next step is beat NDSU as often as they beat us. That is a very big job.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Taking the next step

The whole Fargo population aspect is overblown. I don't have the stats and am not looking them up, but Fargo is full of UND grads as you will see during Hockey season. Fargo hosts NCAA hockey regionals and UND has monthly booster meetings in Fargo. I would argue a good 1/3 of the Bison season ticket holders come from outside of Fargo. Combine that with a D2 school and a very well supported D3 in Moorhead.

Are you honestly implying that NDSU faces the same challenges as SDSU in drawing fans to games? Trying to sell it as equal situations is ridiculous. Arguing that 230,000 is the same thing as 23,000, would be like arguing that winning the Great West Conference is almost like winning a national championship.

Here's what we're up against for increasing attendance from our South Dakota's largest city:

-Sioux Falls has two DII's who outdraw anything the Bison compete with. Both play in nearly brand new facilities. I could walk to either from my home in less time than it takes me to drive to and from Brookings.
-A DI that plays in our conference against teams the Sioux Falls fan might actually recognize
-Nebraska and Iowa football (I'm sure there are a TON of Minnesota Gophers diehards that never miss a game in Fargo)
-The big one: 2 extra hours of travel on gameday - I live in Central Sioux Falls and left home at 3:30 and got home at 11:15 from the last SDSU game against Cal Poly. Roughly 8 hours on a Saturday with about 30 minutes of "tailgating" that consisted of talking to acquaintances I bumped into as I walked to the stadium.

Despite all that, SDSU's attendance is top 20 in our division in attendance in a town of 23,000. The poor, unfortunate Bison have to try to draw fans who must choose between a lousy DI 75 minutes away, a DII or a DIII and could literally walk to the stadium!

[mmiller_34]

Re: Taking the next step

Starkville, MS has 21,000 people and fills up a 62,000 seat stadium. Jacksonville, AL has 12,000 people and fills up a 23,000 seat stadium. Pullman Washington has 21,000 people and fills up a 35,000 seat stadium

1. The immediate surrounding areas of Starkville, MS is well over 100,000. Also, Mississippi State's enrollment is over 21,000. Also a P5 school.

2. Jacksonville, AL is included in the Anniston-Oxford Metro area which is over 100,000.

3. The county directly to the north of Pullman is Spokane County which has a population of 490,945. Also a P5 school.



Honestly, I don't think SDSU's attendance has been too bad this year. Its been about 2-3K more each game compared to the last few years. I was a bit disappointed in the Drake game since I thought more people would come for the first game in the new stadium. However, I was greatly surprised with how many people showed up for the Beef Bowl. Nearing 17,000 for a Cal Poly game would have been crazy talk in the past.

[JackJD]

Re: Taking the next step

I thought scbison's observations were okay (SF Rabbit Fan maybe took a harder view). Comparing our situation to the NDSU situation may not be apples to oranges but it's not apples to apples either. Maybe something like oranges to grapefruit. Anyway, I think there is significant chatter throughout the state about the new football stadium. People in Watertown who are mere casual observers of the local college scene, are driving down for a game and coming back impressed. It is critical that we continue to be very successful in football to hook those casual fans and get them to realize game day in Brookings is a lot of fun.

Driving 80 miles an hour, it takes me 33 minutes to drive to Brookings from Watertown -- measured by entering the interstate to leaving the interstate (it takes me about 10-15 minutes to get from my house to the interstate). When I attend a game at the U of Minnesota, the Twins or Vikings, it takes that long to get out of the parking lot and I enjoy the SDSU games immensely more. On trips home after the game, if we don't stay in town to hit Cubbies or other places, the post game show takes up much of the drive time. Great way to spend a Saturday, in my book.

I'm willing to be we're going to be averaging 17,500 to 18,000 in the very near future barring a complete collapse of the football program (and I don't see that happening at all).

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Taking the next step

Starkville, MS has 21,000 people and fills up a 62,000 seat stadium. Jacksonville, AL has 12,000 people and fills up a 23,000 seat stadium. Pullman Washington has 21,000 people and fills up a 35,000 seat stadium

Somebody get the the professional sports commissioners on the phone! SCBison has scientifically proven that market size has no impact whatsoever on attendance or revenue!

[scbison]

Re: Taking the next step

Are you honestly implying that NDSU faces the same challenges as SDSU in drawing fans to games? Trying to sell it as equal situations is ridiculous. Arguing that 230,000 is the same thing as 23,000, would be like arguing that winning the Great West Conference is almost like winning a national championship.

Here's what we're up against for increasing attendance from our South Dakota's largest city:

-Sioux Falls has two DII's who outdraw anything the Bison compete with. Both play in nearly brand new facilities. I could walk to either from my home in less time than it takes me to drive to and from Brookings.
-A DI that plays in our conference against teams the Sioux Falls fan might actually recognize
-Nebraska and Iowa football (I'm sure there are a TON of Minnesota Gophers diehards that never miss a game in Fargo)
-The big one: 2 extra hours of travel on gameday - I live in Central Sioux Falls and left home at 3:30 and got home at 11:15 from the last SDSU game against Cal Poly. Roughly 8 hours on a Saturday with about 30 minutes of "tailgating" that consisted of talking to acquaintances I bumped into as I walked to the stadium.

Despite all that, SDSU's attendance is top 20 in our division in attendance in a town of 23,000. The poor, unfortunate Bison have to try to draw fans who must choose between a lousy DI 75 minutes away, a DII or a DIII and could literally walk to the stadium!

2015 NCAA Attendance:
Concordia- Moorhead - 4339 per game
Augustana 3600 per game
Sioux Falls 2800 per game
MSU Moorhead 2390 per game

Yes their facilities are nicer than the Dragons and Cobbers

[thumper_76]

Re: Taking the next step

There are some things in the article I agree with and some are just poor comparisons. I agree we need to have a much higher focus in the Sioux Falls area. It almost feels like we are only half committed to winning that market. Sure we can beat USeD for the market that way, but if we want to own it we need to have a much more concentrated effort. Get a radio station down there to have a daily show that talks SDSU and our conference opponents. There's more talk about high school teams on the Sioux Falls radio waves right now and that's absolutely insane if you ask me.

He's also right as far as the attitude goes, at least for what it takes to beat NDSU. I've said this a lot, but it feels like the attitude of going out to physically kick their asses and hurt them (not illegally) is completely nonexistent.

The poor part of the comparison is when he uses NDSUs attendance. The years he used are basically all from this incredible run they have been on. They didn't always have sell outs every game. It took time for them to build that fanbase. When the transition began these two programs did not start at the same starting line.

The other part he is wrong about is when he makes the statement about losing to teams like Poly, UNI, ect. He's just showing his ignorance of the subdivision there. NDSU lost to Montana and USeD last year. It's all forgotten when you win the whole thing at the end of the year. The teams he lists losing to like its an embarrassment are really good teams. It's not those games in the middle of the season. It's the games in the playoffs or when we are highly ranked that it's the issue. Poly is a correct example, but not because of who it was. It was the situation that it happened in that was the problem. If we lose that game and Poly is ranked number 10 and were ranked 16 it's not nearly as damaging as being in the top 10 and losing to an unranked team.