New DB Coach

[BULLDOG]

Re: New DB Coach

Just for the record...what we pay our coaches (heads and assistants) is what we pay them and what we can do with the budget we have. If you have some grand plan to provide more money Bulldog, then offer it up. Do we pay as much as in Iowa...no. Do we pay as much as in Minnesota...probably not. We have a pretty darn good record in athletic achievement at SDSU...and for that I thank the coaches who are at SDSU and provide for that success despite the fact that they might make more money elsewhere. I have seen nothing positive from you in regards to our coaches in your 85 posts since coming on the board, except to criticize the recruiting (or lack thereof according to you). I'm glad you make more money than our assistant coaches in your high school coaching position, so I assume you will not be applying for the opening here. I'm not sure why Coach Jay Christensen is no longer here, and I never will know because I don't believe it is any of my business. I do want you to know that your solutions to increasing our level of funding for our coaches will be appreciated.

I was asked to check on Iowa salaries. Were there any comments made wit the posted salaries. Nope! A chill pill and a Mt Dew for Jacks#1 Fan!!

[TK22867]

Re: New DB Coach

I was asked to check on Iowa salaries. Were there any comments made wit the posted salaries. Nope! A chill pill and a Mt Dew for Jacks#1 Fan!!

Bingo. Someone asks you for data, you provide it, and you get flamed by the resident know-it-all.

[TK22867]

Re: New DB Coach

It is also extremely hard for people to reconcile the education building boom that has been going on in the state for the last 20ish years with complaints about teacher pay. How many new gyms have gone up across this state in the last 20 years? How does that number compare to Iowa/Minnesota/North Dakota/Nebraska? How can Willow Lake (average class size: 15) take the second floor off their school, add on, and put a new roof on their now single story school to the tune of $3.5 million but not afford to pay teachers?

I'm not sure how SD school funding works, so I can't comment on that.

What I can say is that in Iowa you can only pay for certain things out of certain funds which would explain away the teacher pay vs. building example you gave above, but that's a topic for another day.

[joeboo22]

Re: New DB Coach

As for coaching salaries. Many assistant (and head coaching) salaries in smaller even D-I colleges are not worth the time. I thought about going and becoming a grad assistant at a smaller college, but looked at what the outcome was and figured that coaching high school/junior high and teaching in Arizona is worth more than taking the road as a lonely college assistant who travels a ton and makes little. But that is me, not everyone. Its a decision every coach has to make, is the juice worth the squeeze?

As for teacher pay/school resource use. Its the popular comment. Well there are laws when it comes to what school districts can spend where. Different funds that can be used for different things. Also the thing that is never brought up, is when people will money from their estate its usually tied to building something (they want their name on something). When I was in Bon Homme, a very wealthy guy died, and gave money to the school, but it had to be with health and wellness and scholarships, not teacher pay. Tripp funded a big addition with money willed to them when someone died. I do agree that it looks bad, politically but its a choice. The other thing schools have figured out, is if we update our school, add-on, redo the gym, it helps with the argument against closing the school which is the last thing many small towns want to have happen.

Its an argument, it needs to be heard, but there are always 2-3-5 sides to the story and the big problem is educating people and explaining everything with it.

[Nidaros]

Re: New DB Coach

Probably the most successful assistant coach at SDSU is a guy named Trent Baalke who is now working in the front office for the San Francisco Forty Niners as a General Manager.

Here is a story from the 49er website:

http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/...e-19fee6e32ad1

It’s seems kind of surreal that Trent got his start at SDSU under Coach Mike Daily. I recall he was responsible for the recruiting in Nebraska. At the time he started his career at SDSU, not much was being done to recruit the area. That all changed with Trent. I was working and living in Nebraska at the time and noticed that most of the daily papers covered high school athletes in a 50-75 mile radius. So I started subscribing to all the Eastern and Western Nebraska daily papers and in fact the guys at the post office began to wonder what I was doing. I worked throughout the state and often left on Monday and came back to Columbus on Friday where I lived and often picked up my mail before heading home. I went through sports section and pulled out things that I thought would be of interest to Trent Baalke. I sent off a big box of clippings and whole newspapers on more than one occasion. When I saw Trent after a game I asked if he got the box and if it was any help. Yes it was and Trent read everything I sent. He was a very detailed guy and did not miss anything. When he was in the area, I bought a dinner or two. He was very careful in his conversation. He was not afraid to tell me who they were not interested but who they were interested he would not speak of. After he left SDSU he stepped his way into the SF front office and he is still there after their horrible season.

What has this to do with Jay Christensen? I think it has a great deal to do with Jay Christensen. He will no doubt learn from his mistakes at SDSU and move on to something better. Losing a job in a full time career can sometimes be the best thing that happened to them. I spent 15 years with a growing company in which I did not grow with the company. I just was not the sales type of personality. If I had been canned after 5 years, it would not have been the end of world but probably the beginning a new career.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: New DB Coach

This will not be a popular post. I'm not trying to make a political statement or argue right or wrong, just adding a bit of factual information.

The biggest difference between Iowa and SD education, to me, is that there are waaaaay too many schools in towns that cannot logically support a school. According to SDHSAA enrollment numbers, half the districts in South Dakota have graduating classes of less than 25. A quarter have graduating classes with less than 15 students! Nobody talks about this (although there are plenty willing to complain about too many football classes, weird), because that would mean fewer teachers would be needed. We certainly can't have that, better to raise the salary of a biology teacher in Leola who sees 50 students a day.

In 2011 the average starting teacher salary (22 year old just out of college) was $29,308 in South Dakota according to the NEA. Nebraska was $30,086, Iowa was $32,895, North Dakota was $31,065. I wouldn't move out of state as a new grad for that difference.

Now for more emotional arguments:

Increasing teacher salaries is going to be an extreme uphill battle when a good portion of the population asks itself, "why should my taxes go up to increase the salary of someone that already makes more than me and gets the equivalent of 4 months a year off?" In many SD communities, teachers make the most money, get the most time off, and have the best retirement.

It is also extremely hard for people to reconcile the education building boom that has been going on in the state for the last 20ish years with complaints about teacher pay. How many new gyms have gone up across this state in the last 20 years? How does that number compare to Iowa/Minnesota/North Dakota/Nebraska? How can Willow Lake (average class size: 15) take the second floor off their school, add on, and put a new roof on their now single story school to the tune of $3.5 million but not afford to pay teachers?

I completely agree with you on the costs of operating small schools with small enrollments is a problem. I'm not sure the argument is that it would take fewer teachers but more so that small towns like Leola are going to fight tooth and nail to keep their schools. It's a sense of community pride, it helps the economy. There are many people with feelings that are deeply rooted in those schools. Unless you are from a small town or grew up in one it's hard to really understand what a school means to them.

A few years ago there was a push for consolidation. I don't remember exactly how it all happened or what the requirements were, but I believe the state essentially forced some schools to close. It was around this time that Wessington closed it's school and coop'ed with Wolsey. That meant a fairly nice school building sitting empty in Wessington. Financially it was a no-brainer, but for the citizens it was a tough pill to swallow as it negatively effects the economy. Around this same time you had districts trying like hell to opt out of the property tax freeze. I believe that was all connected to the consolidation push. Districts were trying to be less reliant on state money. Increasing state funding for schools was one of the biggest platforms for governor candidates.

Not to pick on Leola as there are other districts with the same set-up, but they coop with Frederick in nearly all sports (FB, Boys and Girls BB, and VB) yet they have schools in both towns. Assuming one of the schools has room for all students you'd save 100% of O/M costs and maybe 80% of the teachers salaries from one school. Those savings could be re-allocated to teacher salaries. Does consolidation make sense for those districts? From outsiders it does, but to the people directly involved they aren't going to like it. Little Johnny that walks across the street to school in Leola now will have to get on a bus and go to Frederick or Ipswich or Eureka.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: New DB Coach

I'm not sure how SD school funding works, so I can't comment on that.

What I can say is that in Iowa you can only pay for certain things out of certain funds which would explain away the teacher pay vs. building example you gave above, but that's a topic for another day.

I believe SD has the same or similar laws, but that doesn't "explain it away." Why are those laws untouchable, but tax laws are within reason to change?

Its a real mess with no simple/easy solution. Teacher pay is a symptom, not the disease.

IMO, the bottom line is that there are areas in SD that have more schools than the student population warrants. Its a harsh reality, and political suicide to admit it much less do something about it. The governor/legislature can't close schools outright, so they are leaving them to die on the vine and consolidate over time. Not even Bill Janklow could close schools (he really, really wanted to), but he did accelerate the consolidation process. The current governor is already branded as anti-education, imagine the outcry if the state actually closed schools.

A couple examples, according to the SDHSAA (nothing against these towns, just examples. There are literally dozens of similar situations across the state):

Castlewood (pop 625) has a high school class size of about 17. According to Google Maps, Castlewood High School is 16.5 miles from Watertown High School. Most of those miles are down US Highway 81.
Esteline (pop 760) has a high school class size of about 14. According to Google Maps, Estelline High School is 27.3 miles from Brookings High School and 21 miles from Sioux Valley High School in Volga.
Many would argue that Sioux Valley doesn't warrant its own school either since it is a short 7 miles from Brookings, although with an enrollment large enough to play 11 man football they are probably safe for now.
Dupree (pop 529)and Faith (pop 434) have their own school (and their own football teams), and are separated by just 23 miles. Combining their enrollments would get them to average class sizes of around 25.

As a Sioux Falls resident, I have very little interest in raising my taxes to support a school in Bison, SD with average class sizes of less than 12. Maybe that makes me selfish, sorry Bison, SD.

My intention isn't to pick on those towns, but my impression is that towns like those typically don't have their own school in Minnesota or Iowa. Someday, they won't in South Dakota either.

IMO, the problem isn't the dollars available (raise taxes!). The problem is that the available dollars are being spread too thin supporting schools that shouldn't exist (fire teachers!). Throw in the fact that most people don't want to live in Dupree (no offense to Dupree), its a very harsh reality without a popular solution. The governor and legislature are really stuck between a rock and a hard place and have chosen to kick the can down the road until the problem fixes itself through consolidation.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: New DB Coach

I completely agree with you on the costs of operating small schools with small enrollments is a problem. I'm not sure the argument is that it would take fewer teachers but more so that small towns like Leola are going to fight tooth and nail to keep their schools. It's a sense of community pride, it helps the economy. There are many people with feelings that are deeply rooted in those schools. Unless you are from a small town or grew up in one it's hard to really understand what a school means to them.

A few years ago there was a push for consolidation. I don't remember exactly how it all happened or what the requirements were, but I believe the state essentially forced some schools to close. It was around this time that Wessington closed it's school and coop'ed with Wolsey. That meant a fairly nice school building sitting empty in Wessington. Financially it was a no-brainer, but for the citizens it was a tough pill to swallow as it negatively effects the economy. Around this same time you had districts trying like hell to opt out of the property tax freeze. I believe that was all connected to the consolidation push. Districts were trying to be less reliant on state money. Increasing state funding for schools was one of the biggest platforms for governor candidates.

Not to pick on Leola as there are other districts with the same set-up, but they coop with Frederick in nearly all sports (FB, Boys and Girls BB, and VB) yet they have schools in both towns. Assuming one of the schools has room for all students you'd save 100% of O/M costs and maybe 80% of the teachers salaries from one school. Those savings could be re-allocated to teacher salaries. Does consolidation make sense for those districts? From outsiders it does, but to the people directly involved they aren't going to like it. Little Johnny that walks across the street to school in Leola now will have to get on a bus and go to Frederick or Ipswich or Eureka.

It sucks, it really does. It is also very politically complex in an era of dying rural communities/economies. The South Dakota situation really can't be compared to Iowa or Minnesota due to demographics alone, the apples/apples comparison is Nebraska, North Dakota, or Montana and from what I can tell they are in virtually the same boat as South Dakota.

[OldHare]

Re: New DB Coach

As long as this thread continues to drift to the twilight zone, I may as well push it along. The Iowa schools started consolidating in the late 1950's. That was due to the State of Iowa forcing those schools that were normally within 10 miles and often times closer than 10 miles to consolidate. I remember being bussed 4 miles to a neighboring town for 3 years during junior high due to consolidation. We had 50 students per class then. That is continuing today but schools may be pulling in from 15 miles or more. None of those schools I attended are even schools any longer. There is no system in force like that in South Dakota. If we examine the state aid for each student in each district, there may be a bit of surprise for each student subsidy from the state. Some of the rural students may be getting by for much less per student than a student who has many resources available at a larger school. Also, a result is lower pay in the smaller schools due to a smaller student base for revenue from the local tax base. Even the larger schools do not pay on scale with the Iowa or Minnesota teacher pay scale. Although, there is also a small matter of no income tax for revenue which stretches sales tax and property tax. Maybe this thread will drift toward....................

[slosho]

Re: New DB Coach

This will not be a popular post. I'm not trying to make a political statement or argue right or wrong, just adding a bit of factual information.

The biggest difference between Iowa and SD education, to me, is that there are waaaaay too many schools in towns that cannot logically support a school. According to SDHSAA enrollment numbers, half the districts in South Dakota have graduating classes of less than 25. A quarter have graduating classes with less than 15 students! Nobody talks about this (although there are plenty willing to complain about too many football classes, weird), because that would mean fewer teachers would be needed. We certainly can't have that, better to raise the salary of a biology teacher in Leola who sees 50 students a day.

In 2011 the average starting teacher salary (22 year old just out of college) was $29,308 in South Dakota according to the NEA. Nebraska was $30,086, Iowa was $32,895, North Dakota was $31,065. I wouldn't move out of state as a new grad for that difference.

Now for more emotional arguments:

Increasing teacher salaries is going to be an extreme uphill battle when a good portion of the population asks itself, "why should my taxes go up to increase the salary of someone that already makes more than me and gets the equivalent of 4 months a year off?" In many SD communities, teachers make the most money, get the most time off, and have the best retirement.

It is also extremely hard for people to reconcile the education building boom that has been going on in the state for the last 20ish years with complaints about teacher pay. How many new gyms have gone up across this state in the last 20 years? How does that number compare to Iowa/Minnesota/North Dakota/Nebraska? How can Willow Lake (average class size: 15) take the second floor off their school, add on, and put a new roof on their now single story school to the tune of $3.5 million but not afford to pay teachers?

Please let's not overlook the issue of how when our teacher's Salaries are what 50th in the nation our School admins don't fare nearly as poorly.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: New DB Coach

Is there any chance that this topic returns to the actual topic: wildly speculative rumors from a poster that joined in December?

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: New DB Coach

Is there any chance that this topic returns to the actual topic: wildly speculative rumors from a poster that joined in December?

I'd much rather talk about how much money you make......

[filbert]

Re: New DB Coach

Is there any chance that this topic returns to the actual topic: wildly speculative rumors from a poster that joined in December?

I'd invite a return to the topic of the thread, but in this particular case . . . meh.

[TK22867]

Re: New DB Coach

I believe SD has the same or similar laws, but that doesn't "explain it away." Why are those laws untouchable, but tax laws are within reason to change?

See, once again you look to prove your point using hypotheticals. I'm not chasing you down the rabbit hole.

It does explain it away. Your post discussed how some can't understand the building boom from schools while not being able to pay teachers more. The explanation is that you inform those folks that the sources for teacher pay and construction projects are different, and you can't draw from one fund to pay for the other. That's a fact.

[jackrabit1]

Re: New DB Coach

Is there any chance that this topic returns to the actual topic: wildly speculative rumors from a poster that joined in December?

I'd rather talk about pie. Sour Cream Raisin is my favorite. *drool*