Flash Package

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

I've noticed a lot of complaining about the Flash package we like to run in short yardage situations, and wanted to start a thread on it. My thoughts/observations:

1-Unless I'm crazy, we ran the flash before Zenner ever set foot on campus. I could have sworn that Minnett ran the flash somewhat regularly. I don't agree with posters who insinuate that Zenner was the only back who could run it effectively. Like many things, Zenner did it better than others because he is Zenner.

2-I don't have any stats to back this up, but I would guess that the Flash is pretty successful when compared to other short yardage packages. How many first downs and touchdowns have we gotten this year from the flash? Every time we run Flash, it is by definition a huge play. 3rd or 4th and short. Sure, there have been times that it hasn't worked, but I would put its success rate at 3:1.

3-Passing 1-2 times a season from this formation would dramatically improve its effectiveness. I don't understand why that has never been on the table.

3-I don't have a ton of confidence any other play would have worked any better on Saturday when we fumbled.

I get why some don't like it, and I'm not disagreeing per say. When the flash is successful it is so boring there isn't any lasting memory of it - a 2 yard gain for a first down, yawn (which is why some posters claim it never works). When it fails, it is obvious and stays in our memory longer (which is why it seems like it never works).

[goon]

Re: Flash Package

Cam jones use to run it. Thought the formation had changed with just one lead back now before I thought they had 2 backs next to the guy getting the hand off.

[jack power]

Re: Flash Package

The biggest coach apologist on this board is defending the play calls. Color me shocked.

[Jackedforlife]

Re: Flash Package

This may seem a bit out there but another option for short yardage is a sneak. Now on a 3rd or 4th and 2yds it isn't going to be effective. But let's take Saturday's 1st and goal from the 2. Why go flash immediately, bring it in on 2nd or 3rd but try a sneak or power in a heavy package. Heck, I'd have Langer(he was an all state RB) take about 10-15 snaps from under center every practice and in warmups. I'd say a success rate of a goaline score of 95% from 2yds with 3 plays is achievable.

I don't think it needs to be retired, but it does for this year. Zenner II will be our best option in years to come as like his brother he ran it often in HS. Also besides Minnett, Cam Jones did well before ZZ.

[mmiller_34]

Re: Flash Package

I've noticed a lot of complaining about the Flash package we like to run in short yardage situations, and wanted to start a thread on it. My thoughts/observations:

1-Unless I'm crazy, we ran the flash before Zenner ever set foot on campus. I could have sworn that Minnett ran the flash somewhat regularly. I don't agree with posters who insinuate that Zenner was the only back who could run it effectively. Like many things, Zenner did it better than others because he is Zenner.

2-I don't have any stats to back this up, but I would guess that the Flash is pretty successful when compared to other short yardage packages. How many first downs and touchdowns have we gotten this year from the flash? Every time we run Flash, it is by definition a huge play. 3rd or 4th and short. Sure, there have been times that it hasn't worked, but I would put its success rate at 3:1.

3-Passing 1-2 times a season from this formation would dramatically improve its effectiveness. I don't understand why that has never been on the table.

3-I don't have a ton of confidence any other play would have worked any better on Saturday when we fumbled.

I get why some don't like it, and I'm not disagreeing per say. When the flash is successful it is so boring there isn't any lasting memory of it - a 2 yard gain for a first down, yawn (which is why some posters claim it never works). When it fails, it is obvious and stays in our memory longer (which is why it seems like it never works).

You're right. Except, the formation is different this year than in the past.

In the past we had a couple of different options where Zenner would fake a hand off to one side and go off tackle on the other side. This worked wonders against NDSU last year in the playoffs.

Now,it's just run straight ahead. There is zero deception. It's just "here we come".

[Southeast]

Re: Flash Package

If it worked so well, I assume the flash "fad" that swept the country (including the NFL) would have lasted more than a couple years.

If you are not going to even attempt to disguise what you are going to do, you better be damn good at doing it! The same goes for running TC out there on short yardage situations.

[CappinHard]

Re: Flash Package

Why do you think the NFL all but did away with the Wildcat formation? Because once defensive minds saw it enough and had time to scheme against it, it was almost completely ineffective. This is the same case with the package this year. We have run it so much that teams are game planning for it, and know how to stop it. Now sometimes our guys are able to overcome the fact that the other team knows exactly what we're doing, but the success of the play shouldn't have to rely on that. I don't think the frustration of this formation/play comes from the success of it, but rather the predictability of it. If you ask me, when you really need 2 yards, I would rather line up in a formation where the defense isn't sure what we're going to do (you can run or pass out of it, and keep them honest). I wouldn't mind seeing the flash used sparingly as it has in the past, because then it still has an element of surprise, but it is being way overused this year.

[da_coach]

Re: Flash Package

I'm not a fan of the formation this year, as it is has defensive linemen in the backfield. and there is no misdirection to it. (usually) We just have a rb back there, with 2 DT's in the backfield with him.

Against NDSU last year...Zenner was running it more of a "read option" type play.

And correct, the team has ran it for years...Minnet ran it, Cam Jones did run it, and of course Zenner.

I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater...there is some value to the package, but it becomes harder to be successful, when the defense is ready for what is coming at them.

[mnjackrbt]

Re: Flash Package

I believe it has been around for awhile, it was a Coach Meadows package I think. I remember Minnet running it. I think it would be a great package with Cam Jones still in the backfield with it, we at least have somebody who can probably pass then, Cam was QB at Burnsville HS. It used to be something that made a defense panic, think for a little bit before the play, and then BOOM! Here comes a few big guys out of the backfield right at you. If you wan't some type of flash package, you need to put a couple extra wrinkles in it. Think of the slight confusion a D would have if TC motions out wide and Cam Jones motions into the backfield, they know something odd could be coming but they don't know what. They wouldn't have time to see a QB leaving the field and adjust their D. Anything you can do to make a defense think, when they have to think, they play slower.

[Nidaros]

Re: Flash Package

What ever works is okay by me.

[bigticket1]

Re: Flash Package

We've got a great running QB with TC. If they need to use the package, put him back there with two tight ends or a tight end and a RB. At least then you have multiple run/pass options to use rather than just the straight ahead runs we get now.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Flash Package

We've got a great running QB with TC. If they need to use the package, put him back there with two tight ends or a tight end and a RB. At least then you have multiple run/pass options to use rather than just the straight ahead runs we get now.

Flash is just the old triple option,except there's no latterals,just handoff or pass option?Serious question,I,m not a student of football

[CappinHard]

Re: Flash Package

Flash is just the old triple option,except there's no latterals,just handoff or pass option?Serious question,I,m not a student of football

No, flash is where you line up two big guys in front of a RB in shotgun formation, snap it directly to the RB, and basically run a blast play, trying to overpower the other team. For some reason, the backside penetration on these plays has absolutely killed us. It's why we didn't convert the 4th and 1 and lost the game against UNI.

Edit: Can't believe I just typed backside penetration and didn't realize it until I posted it... Glad I did though, I needed a laugh today.

[Justwin]

Re: Flash Package

No, flash is where you line up two big guys in front of a RB in shotgun formation, snap it directly to the RB, and basically run a blast play, trying to overpower the other team. For some reason, the backside penetration on these plays has absolutely killed us. It's why we didn't convert the 4th and 1 and lost the game against UNI.

Edit: Can't believe I just typed backside penetration and didn't realize it until I posted it... Glad I did though, I needed a laugh today.

Best post of the day!

[Jackedforlife]

Re: Flash Package

No, flash is where you line up two big guys in front of a RB in shotgun formation, snap it directly to the RB, and basically run a blast play, trying to overpower the other team. For some reason, the backside penetration on these plays has absolutely killed us. It's why we didn't convert the 4th and 1 and lost the game against UNI.

Edit: Can't believe I just typed backside penetration and didn't realize it until I posted it... Glad I did though, I needed a laugh today.

Backside penetration, isn't the a quote from The Waterboy? Excellent post