Jacks at USD

[JackJD]

Re: Jacks at USD

How in the heck can there be a 2 game discrepancy in total games played between the two schools?

On snowy day a year ago, I compared the historical info from each school's media book and I recall finding the discrepancies...just can't find those notes now. Locating the discrepancies alone didn't determine which record was correct and, if my memory serves me, whether both records were wrong. Once the years in which differences appeared were determined, one would have to resort to other sources to determine the facts. Probably the best starting point would be newspaper reports of the games. I didn't get that far.

Before anyone starts throwing rocks in the direction of either school, just keep in mind there's a discrepancy but no one knows which record is incorrect.

[HoboJack]

Re: Jacks at USD

On snowy day a year ago, I compared the historical info from each school's media book and I recall finding the discrepancies...just can't find those notes now. Locating the discrepancies alone didn't determine which record was correct and, if my memory serves me, whether both records were wrong. Once the years in which differences appeared were determined, one would have to resort to other sources to determine the facts. Probably the best starting point would be newspaper reports of the games. I didn't get that far.

Before anyone starts throwing rocks in the direction of either school, just keep in mind there's a discrepancy but no one knows which record is incorrect.

I could have sworn Terry V had an article about this in the past (maybe when we first played them again), and the issue was rooted in a single game played where the outcome was disputed. The other game in question was counted as a scrimmage for SDSU (i.e. not a real game) and a counter for USD due to the number of games they could have in a season.

[CappinHard]

Re: Jacks at USD

That doesn't make sense. He didn't say they have defeated heavyweights. If that's what was written, then your argument makes sense. Since they beat NDSU it shows that they are cap or beating the best teams in the league. They only have beaten one, but they have shown that it is a possibility that it happens.

Dude, you are just straight up obnoxious. Quit nitpicking people's posts. Contribute to the conversation, rather than detracting from it.

[JackJD]

Re: Jacks at USD

I could have sworn Terry V had an article about this in the past (maybe when we first played them again), and the issue was rooted in a single game played where the outcome was disputed. The other game in question was counted as a scrimmage for SDSU (i.e. not a real game) and a counter for USD due to the number of games they could have in a season.

I found my notes and will boil them down and add another post. It should be noted that Mick Garry of the Argus Leader commented on the series-record discrepancy in the Sunday, 11/23/14, Argus Leader.

[JackJD]

Re: Jacks at USD

I found my notes. What got me curious about the series-record discrepancy was a comment made by Mick Garry in the 11/23/14 Sunday Argus Leader. He pointed out that the two schools reported difference series records.

If you compare the all-time series records published by each school in their media guides, you will see that the information matches except for three years: 1900, 1901 and 1922.

1900: SDSU's records do not show a game with USD in 1900. USD shows a 17-0 win over SDSU that year.
1901: USD's records show two games against SDSU, a 22-0 USD win and a 6-0 USD win. SDSU's records show just one game that year, the 22-0 USD win.
1922: SDSU's records show two games against USD, a USD win of 15-7 and a 7-7 tie. USD's records show only the 7-7 tie.

USD's records show all-time ties at 7 while SDSU has reported ties at 6. My review of the records showed there were seven ties. The media-guide info from each school shows the following seven ties: 1889, 6-6; 1904, 6-6; 1922, 7-7; 1926, 0-0; 1932, 0-0; 1952, 21-21; and 1976, 17-17.

Looking at media guides does not resolve the actual fact of wins and losses. I would argue that since there is agreement in the media guides about ties (except for SDSU's statement of total ties), that we can all agree there were seven ties. (And, since ties can't happen any more, who cares?) There are stories/legends/claims -- call them what you will and who knows if some or all or true or false -- that, if true, may explain the discrepancy depending on the accuracy of the stories/legends/claims. For example, in a year in which the teams played twice, was one game an exhibition game and was agreed in advance to not be counted?

Was it possible that one team could count a game while the other called it exhibition? We do that today in basketball (e.g. SDSU hosts DWU but SDSU lists it as exhibition while DWU lists it as a counter.

I think the discrepancy can only be resolved with some certainty by resorting to outside sources, the most obvious being a daily newspaper's reports of the games played in 1900, 1901 and 1922. I know the Watertown Public Opinion is available on microfilm for public searching at the Watertown Regional Library. Likely the Argus Leader is available too.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Jacks at USD

I think the key word is heavyweights, he incorrectly made it plural. They haven't been capable of competing with any of the MVFC heavyweights other than NDSU.

They beat UNI a couple years ago in the dome

[leeshajo]

Re: Jacks at USD

I found my notes. What got me curious about the series-record discrepancy was a comment made by Mick Garry in the 11/23/14 Sunday Argus Leader. He pointed out that the two schools reported difference series records.

If you compare the all-time series records published by each school in their media guides, you will see that the information matches except for three years: 1900, 1901 and 1922.

1900: SDSU's records do not show a game with USD in 1900. USD shows a 17-0 win over SDSU that year.
1901: USD's records show two games against SDSU, a 22-0 USD win and a 6-0 USD win. SDSU's records show just one game that year, the 22-0 USD win.
1922: SDSU's records show two games against USD, a USD win of 15-7 and a 7-7 tie. USD's records show only the 7-7 tie.

USD's records show all-time ties at 7 while SDSU has reported ties at 6. My review of the records showed there were seven ties. The media-guide info from each school shows the following seven ties: 1889, 6-6; 1904, 6-6; 1922, 7-7; 1926, 0-0; 1932, 0-0; 1952, 21-21; and 1976, 17-17.

Looking at media guides does not resolve the actual fact of wins and losses. I would argue that since there is agreement in the media guides about ties (except for SDSU's statement of total ties), that we can all agree there were seven ties. (And, since ties can't happen any more, who cares?) There are stories/legends/claims -- call them what you will and who knows if some or all or true or false -- that, if true, may explain the discrepancy depending on the accuracy of the stories/legends/claims. For example, in a year in which the teams played twice, was one game an exhibition game and was agreed in advance to not be counted?

Was it possible that one team could count a game while the other called it exhibition? We do that today in basketball (e.g. SDSU hosts DWU but SDSU lists it as exhibition while DWU lists it as a counter.

I think the discrepancy can only be resolved with some certainty by resorting to outside sources, the most obvious being a daily newspaper's reports of the games played in 1900, 1901 and 1922. I know the Watertown Public Opinion is available on microfilm for public searching at the Watertown Regional Library. Likely the Argus Leader is available too.

If I think of it next time I am up at the library doing research I will check. Believe it or not I have been in the microfisch three times in the last few weeks

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[jack power]

Re: Jacks at USD

I found my notes. What got me curious about the series-record discrepancy was a comment made by Mick Garry in the 11/23/14 Sunday Argus Leader. He pointed out that the two schools reported difference series records.

If you compare the all-time series records published by each school in their media guides, you will see that the information matches except for three years: 1900, 1901 and 1922.

1900: SDSU's records do not show a game with USD in 1900. USD shows a 17-0 win over SDSU that year.
1901: USD's records show two games against SDSU, a 22-0 USD win and a 6-0 USD win. SDSU's records show just one game that year, the 22-0 USD win.
1922: SDSU's records show two games against USD, a USD win of 15-7 and a 7-7 tie. USD's records show only the 7-7 tie.

USD's records show all-time ties at 7 while SDSU has reported ties at 6. My review of the records showed there were seven ties. The media-guide info from each school shows the following seven ties: 1889, 6-6; 1904, 6-6; 1922, 7-7; 1926, 0-0; 1932, 0-0; 1952, 21-21; and 1976, 17-17.

Looking at media guides does not resolve the actual fact of wins and losses. I would argue that since there is agreement in the media guides about ties (except for SDSU's statement of total ties), that we can all agree there were seven ties. (And, since ties can't happen any more, who cares?) There are stories/legends/claims -- call them what you will and who knows if some or all or true or false -- that, if true, may explain the discrepancy depending on the accuracy of the stories/legends/claims. For example, in a year in which the teams played twice, was one game an exhibition game and was agreed in advance to not be counted?

Was it possible that one team could count a game while the other called it exhibition? We do that today in basketball (e.g. SDSU hosts DWU but SDSU lists it as exhibition while DWU lists it as a counter.

I think the discrepancy can only be resolved with some certainty by resorting to outside sources, the most obvious being a daily newspaper's reports of the games played in 1900, 1901 and 1922. I know the Watertown Public Opinion is available on microfilm for public searching at the Watertown Regional Library. Likely the Argus Leader is available too.

One problem could be USD is pulling info from their website: http://www.goyotes.com/schedule.aspx...&path=football

[AugieJackFan]

Re: Jacks at USD

Just scored a pair of free tickets. I'm pumped. Should be a close game IMHO.

[AugieJackFan]

Re: Jacks at USD

FWIW Sagarin has us as a 12.5 point favorite.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf...15/conference/

I will bet the lake house with USD +12.5.

[CappinHard]

Re: Jacks at USD

I will bet the lake house with USD +12.5.

I'll take that bet, but I need -10.5, since that's what the spread is. Also, if you win you can have my house, but you incur the debt of the loan as well. (disclaimer: only bought my house a few years ago, so there's not a whole lot of equity there...)

Seriously though, I see the jacks winning by 13 or 14. USD will try to make a late surge, but our defense will hold out like it has all year.

[AugieJackFan]

Re: Jacks at USD

I'll take that bet, but I need -10.5, since that's what the spread is. Also, if you win you can have my house, but you incur the debt of the loan as well. (disclaimer: only bought my house a few years ago, so there's not a whole lot of equity there...)

Seriously though, I see the jacks winning by 13 or 14. USD will try to make a late surge, but our defense will hold out like it has all year.

I think I need to see the assessed value of said property and the payoff amount before I make this bet.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Jacks at USD

Dude, you are just straight up obnoxious. Quit nitpicking people's posts. Contribute to the conversation, rather than detracting from it.

Send me another couple hundred words in a private message about it again, and maybe I'll consider it.

[JackJD]

Re: Jacks at USD

If I think of it next time I am up at the library doing research I will check. Believe it or not I have been in the microfisch three times in the last few weeks

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Read the info carefully. In the very early 1900s, colleges sometimes played high school or town-based teams (the point: a reference to playing Vermillion or Brookings may not mean, and likely does not mean, USD or SDSU).

[WestSideRabbit]

Re: Jacks at USD

http://www.argusleader.com/story/spo...year/75580818/

I'm getting annoyed by all this talk of how improved USD is. I hope the Jacks come out and boat race them. I originally guessed a 24-10 game, but I'm leaning more towards JackJD's guess as the week goes on.