Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

[THEsocalledfan]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

I agree with a lot that you said here. I was a student in 1962 and watched the inaugural game at CAS. We had a great team that year and the Bison where 0-11 that year. They did not even beat Concordia or MSU-Moorhead. But after that season things changed with a new president. I read in the Bison programs that the old president of NDSU did not want people from the AD begging for scholarship money from the downtown merchants. That all changed that year. The rest is very much history.

I think 1 year contracts are not the problem. There are advantages to having 1 year contracts namely, you can hand walking papers to those who are not doing their job sooner than later. I assure you, the Women's bb coach at NDSU would have left sooner if she had been at SDSU and had to deal with the one year contract. As programs at NDSU and SDSU grow, we are going to have to take another look at this. As you know living in SF, we have some real rock-heads in the legislature and they fail to see any celebrity status attached to being a head coach. A state employee is just that year to year. Granted Stig deserves more in terms of salary, but he is also a very humble person and seems to be happy getting nearly 200k per year. The staff could use some incentives built in to their job. I don't know for a fact that this in action. Maybe our defense would not position themselves like they currently do.

Tailgating, I first thought was just a big excuse to party, but I am certain I am wrong on that notion. The NDSU following is very impressive and I am sure we can learn from that. In my explanation of rep points I mentioned that space seems to be a limiting factor to tailgating in Fargo and Brookings both, but again I could be very wrong. Good luck to the Bison and thanks for recognizing the good things that are happening at SDSU. You are not a patronize by the way. Those who responded in that manner where experiencing butt hurt.

Great reply. You are correct on the WBB situation, but Craig Bohl stayed a very long time, too, so I take that trade. Not to mention, Wyoming had to pay NDSU to get him due to the buyout clause..... I've heard rumblings Chicoine wants to get the single year contract stuff fixed. Hopefully, the legislature will "get it" but I have my doubts.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

Since I live is Sioux Falls, I have a bit different perspective on SDSU than many Bison fans, and being Bison fan, I see things more detached than those on this board. I have thought, ever since 2007, you have a hell of a coach. You have to remember, he is not playing with the same deck of cards as NDSU. He is on a year to year contract, his assistants make peanuts (maybe that got fixed? I hear a few years ago it was bad), and he's had horrible facilities. However, the success he has brought your program is starting to change the whole equation:

1. You now have an indoor practice facility NDSU can only dream about. Yes, NDSU fans will continue to try to say, "yeah, but we have the Fargodome," but they do not own that building and do not have unlimited access. NDSU bused to El Forgo Grand last year to practice once in December.
2. You finally will have a new stadium, worthy of D1. Yes, we give you hell on port-a-johns, but those will be going away.

If I could do whatever I want at SDSU and was charged to make them a premier, NDSU level program, here is what I would do (I am very aware some of these are legislative issues):

1. Get great coaches like Stig off of year to year contracts; I don't think that is fair for such a great coach that you can basically #$%^ on him anytime you want and owe him nothing. Not to mention, even though he is an SDSU guy, he will have a very hard time turning down 2 million or so a year if his success continues and expands. And those colleges will owe SDSU nothing.
2. Make assistant coach pay comparable to NDSU.
3. Shut those borders down; you are losing too many high level SD recruits to NDSU. You now have the facilities to make a strong argument to stay home.
4. Beef up your tailgating in Brookings; yes, it will lead to even more dollars donated. Last year, we were all set up and rocking it, and no one was even in the SDSU lots tailgating yet. Not sure how you getting it going better, but you should have tailgate scene with no need to take a backseat to Fargo.

So, I know some called my patronizing, but I've really never felt SDSU has been playing on a level playing field with NDSU. Thus, my perspective that you guys should be very happy with how close you came on Saturday. But, you are getting much closer to NDSU, and I suspect will always be our main competition in this league going forward......you will finally be playing from the same deck of cards.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say but:

1) I don't believe with coaches like Stig or Nagy or Johnston that year to year contracts make a bit of difference. Look at all the coaching turnover at NDSU in the revenue sports the past 12 months clearly that didn't keep them in Fargo. The next coaches we hire perhaps but not the current group.
2) Have not done research on assistant pay, but assume your right here. I think the additional revenue generated by new stadium will equalize this inequity.
3) I think the borders already are closing. SDSU 2015 commits Christion, Vinatieri and Williams all had Bison offers. Not sure if Tuszka from Warner had an offer from the jacks but feel that had more to do with his brother already being at NDSU.
4) I think the tailgating tends to slide late in the season along with the attendance and the cold weather. Could it be better yes, not sure how it will be restructured with new stadium, but not sure how tailgating make the product on the field better?

[Nidaros]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

Great reply. You are correct on the WBB situation, but Craig Bohl stayed a very long time, too, so I take that trade. Not to mention, Wyoming had to pay NDSU to get him due to the buyout clause..... I've heard rumblings Chicoine wants to get the single year contract stuff fixed. Hopefully, the legislature will "get it" but I have my doubts.

We have not had the celebrity status built around the coach like they have done at NDSU. With resources, you can do that. I was just reading a Bohl thread over on Bisonville, and things are not going that great for Craig at Wyoming. I don't think he will have a winning season this year. Our legislature is what it is, a one party system and has been that way for a long time and unless we have a change in voting patterns, Chicoine will have to find ways to get this done. He spent his career at B10 Illinois so knows how to deal with the political world. His father was a Democrat in the legislature and spent a number of years dealing with the Repulicans so again, he no doubt learned some lessons.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

Since I live is Sioux Falls, I have a bit different perspective on SDSU than many Bison fans, and being Bison fan, I see things more detached than those on this board. I have thought, ever since 2007, you have a hell of a coach. You have to remember, he is not playing with the same deck of cards as NDSU. He is on a year to year contract, his assistants make peanuts (maybe that got fixed? I hear a few years ago it was bad), and he's had horrible facilities. However, the success he has brought your program is starting to change the whole equation:

1. You now have an indoor practice facility NDSU can only dream about. Yes, NDSU fans will continue to try to say, "yeah, but we have the Fargodome," but they do not own that building and do not have unlimited access. NDSU bused to El Forgo Grand last year to practice once in December.
2. You finally will have a new stadium, worthy of D1. Yes, we give you hell on port-a-johns, but those will be going away.

If I could do whatever I want at SDSU and was charged to make them a premier, NDSU level program, here is what I would do (I am very aware some of these are legislative issues):

1. Get great coaches like Stig off of year to year contracts; I don't think that is fair for such a great coach that you can basically #$%^ on him anytime you want and owe him nothing. Not to mention, even though he is an SDSU guy, he will have a very hard time turning down 2 million or so a year if his success continues and expands. And those colleges will owe SDSU nothing.
2. Make assistant coach pay comparable to NDSU.
3. Shut those borders down; you are losing too many high level SD recruits to NDSU. You now have the facilities to make a strong argument to stay home.
4. Beef up your tailgating in Brookings; yes, it will lead to even more dollars donated. Last year, we were all set up and rocking it, and no one was even in the SDSU lots tailgating yet. Not sure how you getting it going better, but you should have tailgate scene with no need to take a backseat to Fargo.

So, I know some called my patronizing, but I've really never felt SDSU has been playing on a level playing field with NDSU. Thus, my perspective that you guys should be very happy with how close you came on Saturday. But, you are getting much closer to NDSU, and I suspect will always be our main competition in this league going forward......you will finally be playing from the same deck of cards.

Must spread rep.

This is a reasonable perspective.

Other than #1, I think you would have to admit we are making progress - it isn't like we aren't doing anything. Sometimes that progress is slow, but even NDSU football wasn't built in a day. We'll get there.

[THEsocalledfan]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

I agree with a lot of what you have to say but:

1) I don't believe with coaches like Stig or Nagy or Johnston that year to year contracts make a bit of difference. Look at all the coaching turnover at NDSU in the revenue sports the past 12 months clearly that didn't keep them in Fargo. The next coaches we hire perhaps but not the current group.
2) Have not done research on assistant pay, but assume your right here. I think the additional revenue generated by new stadium will equalize this inequity.
3) I think the borders already are closing. SDSU 2015 commits Christion, Vinatieri and Williams all had Bison offers. Not sure if Tuszka from Warner had an offer from the jacks but feel that had more to do with his brother already being at NDSU.
4) I think the tailgating tends to slide late in the season along with the attendance and the cold weather. Could it be better yes, not sure how it will be restructured with new stadium, but not sure how tailgating make the product on the field better?

This is turning into a great discussion.

The year to year contract thing, particularly in football, could really come back to haunt you in the future, if Stig, now playing with a full deck, makes a deep playoff run. He will start having big number thrown at him. Now, SDSU will be able to also up the ante at that point, but it will still be tough and it is only logical to want security if offered. And there is the other critical point that simply, Stig has earned the right not to be on a year to year contract.

As far as not keeping coaches, in the same situation, those schools would owe SDSU nothing. I'd rather have something....

I agree SDSU has gotten better on retaining SD talent.

If you can get tailgating to become an event in and of itself like Fargo, you gain new fans, assure sellouts, and you raise more money for your booster club. It is indirect, but let me assure you, that is a big part of NDSU's success as crazy as it sounds.

[Nidaros]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

This probably deserves a thread of its own, but watching U of Minnesota the past few years, they have paid off several multi year contracts. Unless they got some kind of an insurance contract to protect them, they have paid plenty. There is a big difference between SDSU and UM, but the contracts have been costly for the UM.

My point is that multi year contracts are down the road for SDSU. Its sort of a D2 hangover, but until we get that celebrity status built to a higher level, I just don't see multi year contracts.

[TK22867]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

This probably deserves a thread of its own, but watching U of Minnesota the past few years, they have paid off several multi year contracts. Unless they got some kind of an insurance contract to protect them, they have paid plenty. There is a big difference between SDSU and UM, but the contracts have been costly for the UM.

My point is that multi year contracts are down the road for SDSU. Its sort of a D2 hangover, but until we get that celebrity status built to a higher level, I just don't see multi year contracts.

I'm guessing the multi-year contract issue will come to a head when either Stig, Nagy, or Johnston leaves. One would assume a quality replacement would balk at a 1-year offer unless that candidate is promoted from within.

I can tell you I'm not uplifting and moving my family for a guaranteed 1-year deal................

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

I'm guessing the multi-year contract issue will come to a head when either Stig, Nagy, or Johnston leaves. One would assume a quality replacement would balk at a 1-year offer unless that candidate is promoted from within.

I can tell you I'm not uplifting and moving my family for a guaranteed 1-year deal................

The Bball coach at USD left Nebraska for a 1 year deal, unless I missed something. The reality is probably that lots of verbal, under the table assurances are given that a 1 year deal is more than a 1 year deal.

I wonder how it would work to write a 1 year deal with a 364 day notice to terminate? That way you would essentially get 2 years from a 1 year contract?

[TK22867]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

The Bball coach at USD left Nebraska for a 1 year deal, unless I missed something.

No, I said QUALITY replacement Sorry, not a smack thread. I'll slap myself across the wrist.

[Nidaros]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

I'm guessing the multi-year contract issue will come to a head when either Stig, Nagy, or Johnston leaves. One would assume a quality replacement would balk at a 1-year offer unless that candidate is promoted from within.

I can tell you I'm not uplifting and moving my family for a guaranteed 1-year deal................

Good guess. I think if we have a celebrity status around head coaches at SDSU, these are our candidates. These people will be hard to replace.

[Nidaros]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

The Bball coach at USD left Nebraska for a 1 year deal, unless I missed something. The reality is probably that lots of verbal, under the table assurances are given that a 1 year deal is more than a 1 year deal.

I wonder how it would work to write a 1 year deal with a 364 day notice to terminate? That way you would essentially get 2 years from a 1 year contract?

Not to provoke an argument, but you are speaking of a guy who was lucky to get a job at Mayville as an assistant under Tim Miles. Coach Smith has not lost his humility. If we have to interview candidates from the MAC or MW, they might be looking for a multi year. I don't question Socalledfan's comment about Chicoine wanting to get this fixed, I am sure its towards the top of his agenda. It takes awhile to work your way through a political scheme such as that in the SD legislature. No accident when these people are announced as being in attendance at home football games.

[jack power]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

This screenshot reminds me of pee-wee football. Why even get in a 3 point stance? 3rd and 1 and we have one defender inside that 1 yard???

I've been pretty supportive of the coaching staff, but the defense needs to play better. I wish we could put together offense, defense, and special teams for a whole season. It does have to be tough with a revolving door for the coaching staff, but c'mon. At least line up like you want to stop them. Has anybody asked Stig about this in his talks? What is the theory behind this?

I noticed that question was asked of Terry during the Argus game chat. He said he recalled it is viewed as a way to gain steam going in to the o-line because SDSU's guys are lighter. I remember a similar reason given after the Nebraska game last year.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

I noticed that question was asked of Terry during the Argus game chat. He said he recalled it is viewed as a way to gain steam going in to the o-line because SDSU's guys are lighter. I remember a similar reason given after the Nebraska game last year.

I can agree with that in theory. However in practice, when guys stand straight up out of their stance it isn't very effective to my layman's eyes. Maybe we are just that wore down/tired.

[shot_5533]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

I noticed that question was asked of Terry during the Argus game chat. He said he recalled it is viewed as a way to gain steam going in to the o-line because SDSU's guys are lighter. I remember a similar reason given after the Nebraska game last year.

Wow. Seriously? Head of steam?

99.9% of other teams get up close and low as possible to the LOS and low man wins.

You sure TV reported this correctly?

BTW - painful loss. I actually thought we'd be more competitive at the end... Blue colored glasses on my end. Sigh.

[rjacks21]

Re: Dakota Marker - 2014 Edition

Wow. Seriously? Head of steam?

99.9% of other teams get up close and low as possible to the LOS and low man wins.

You sure TV reported this correctly?


BTW - painful loss. I actually thought we'd be more competitive at the end... Blue colored glasses on my end. Sigh.

I've brought it up in a few times in the weekly TV chats and his response has pretty much been that the issue is being overblown. I disagree 100%. I've spoken to quite a few former offensive lineman (including a couple who have played significant time in the NFL) and they've all said they would have been licking their chops to play against a defensive line that far off the ball. The biggest advantage the defensive line has is to get off the ball quick and take the battle to the O-line. Our D-line has zero opportunity to do that with the current scheme.