New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

[OldHare]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I've been a partner in a general contracting firm for 16 years. We work year round. Anything can be done. For this guy to say frozen ground is "no problem" is silly.

Once again, it takes more effort is a red herring. It takes more effort to do everything when it is cold. That is not the issue. The bids were made to start after the football season. It was -1 overnight Dec 1. The NDSU game was Dec 6. If you were an avid ice fisherman, you were walking on the ice the second week of December. The weather is not what is holding up progress.

[OldHare]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

We may also want to consider why this project is scheduled in the manner it has been planned. The dots I put together are that SDSU did not want to relocate somewhere even for 1 year to play at some location such as Howard Wood. That would be about 12,000 tickets for 6 games which is 72,000 attendees that would not be in Brookings tailgating and making a home field environment. Is that possible? Would some attendees not attend a game in Sioux Falls or some other venue? Would they return as quickly as they left or would some other change in life style interfere? If it turned into 2 years, double the tickets to 144,000. I know I am not smart enough to discuss the extra costs of working in the winter, but the concepts that may have influenced the project to be scheduled for the winter seem clear. Some are thinking that the weather is cold and that is why there is no work. There was a recent discussion that brought the bid problem to the surface. That is more logical than it is too cold and it costs more. The contractors involved with the early work know that winter is cold and I would speculate that bids come accordingly. Jack Power may create his bids that take cold weather into account since he has agreed that working year around is possible.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

We may also want to consider why this project is scheduled in the manner it has been planned. The dots I put together are that SDSU did not want to relocate somewhere even for 1 year to play at some location such as Howard Wood. That would be about 12,000 tickets for 6 games which is 72,000 attendees that would not be in Brookings tailgating and making a home field environment. Is that possible? Would some attendees not attend a game in Sioux Falls or some other venue? Would they return as quickly as they left or would some other change in life style interfere? If it turned into 2 years, double the tickets to 144,000. I know I am not smart enough to discuss the extra costs of working in the winter, but the concepts that may have influenced the project to be scheduled for the winter seem clear. Some are thinking that the weather is cold and that is why there is no work. There was a recent discussion that brought the bid problem to the surface. That is more logical than it is too cold and it costs more. The contractors involved with the early work know that winter is cold and I would speculate that bids come accordingly. Jack Power may create his bids that take cold weather into account since he has agreed that working year around is possible.

Who is saying that is why there is no work going on?

Its a budget issue and Jack power and I are just saying its more expensive and time consuming to do earthwork at this time of year. Ill bet the frost depth is deeper now than December 1st.

[jackdaniel]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

Every winter is a little different as far as how deep frost goes down into the ground. Depending on how long and cold the days and nights are, correct me, but around 6 ft is the extreme limit for depth, some winters much less, depending again on temp and length of time of sub zero temps. Once you get below the frozen ground, it's just like dirt in the summer months. Snow acts as an insulator to help keep the frost from going further down into the ground.Frost develops from the surface and goes down, it leaves the ground the opposite way.Please correct any errors,but this is what I've alway's been told.

If you start early and stay ahead of it, it should be much easier to deal with, but every night it's freezing again which limits spreading evenly aggregate like gravel, etc,or re-doing any spreading with out un-thawing it again somehow. It's got to be a bigger pain in the winter, especially a long, cold one. Maybe now days there are ways, I don't know.It's just much easier to do this in the spring.

[OldHare]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

Who is saying that is why there is no work going on?

Its a budget issue and Jack power and I are just saying its more expensive and time consuming to do earthwork at this time of year. Ill bet the frost depth is deeper now than December 1st.

I read the article that I think was referred to written by TV. It says zero about waiting until the thaw. It does say the bleachers stay at least until the work might start since it would be a place snow could accumulate and need to be removed for work to progress. It was also mentioned that they would do any work that might be physically possible considering the elements. Sometimes they might even thaw some ground to put concrete in. You can continue to say it costs more and it will continue to be agreed that it costs more. It is also a project that was PLANNED for the winter. This did not seem to be a 3-4 week sector of the winter for work.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I read the article that I think was referred to written by TV. It says zero about waiting until the thaw. It does say the bleachers stay at least until the work might start since it would be a place snow could accumulate and need to be removed for work to progress. It was also mentioned that they would do any work that might be physically possible considering the elements. Sometimes they might even thaw some ground to put concrete in. You can continue to say it costs more and it will continue to be agreed that it costs more. It is also a project that was PLANNED for the winter. This did not seem to be a 3-4 week sector of the winter for work.

I dont think you get it. In one of your first posts you said that frozen ground wasnt a concern. Ive linked an article from TV that essentially says its an issue. Jack power who is a general contract has also tried to explain the difficulties as well.

Way different starting a project in December vs mid-January. Read the post from jackdaniel its actually pretty good. The deeper the frost gets the more difficult work becomes.

At some point its a better decision to just wait until the conditions improve. You will spend two months doing a months work. Someone has to pay for that. When the contractors prepare their bid they assumed late November/early December start. They account for costs based on that start date. If that date is delayed or weather conditions are extreme it can require more effort and more money. You cant expect a contractor to eat costs that are beyond their control. Typically that added cost will come out of contingency.

Im not saying its the only reason for delay, but when TV has an article that says they "may" thaw the ground the ground to place concrete that tells me the weather is also an issue.

[OldHare]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I should have said that the frozen ground is not a roadblock or it is not stopping work rather than not a concern. He said that it would not stop work. No one said it would be cheaper or it would not be harder. There is a strong chance that work will begin before the frost is out which is a notion someone threw at me once. You can continue to say it costs more in the winter and there is no disagreement. There seems to be a failure to recognize that many quotes were looking straight into the winter season. Additionally, the aggregate that is an important portion of the early work has less extra cost for winter work except digging a big enough hole to dump. That would create more concern waiting for that portion of the job until spring. Typically those trucks are less busy in the winter. That may create more stress for that contractor in that phase. Difficulties do not mean the road is closed.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

Additionally, the aggregate that is an important portion of the early work has less extra cost for winter work except digging a big enough hole to dump.

Lol. ok.

[Nidaros]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I offer "no comment". Got to get my total post numbers up. Its an interesting conversation amongst you engineers and contractors. Carry on.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

Is there any factual support for your numbers other than "I heard it from somebody...."? It appears you take someone's speculation (see UWMandSDSU's subsequent post, post 716) and from there you draw conclusions. If your starting point is inaccurate, then the conclusions (re DIII and Nov games) are inaccurate. I'm interested in knowing if your starting point is accurate.

I think most -- likely all -- season ticket holders do not lump together the (required) donation with the price of the season tickets because they'd likely make that donation anyway. I suppose one can add the (required) donation to the cost of the tickets and come up with a per-ticket price that seems unattractive but if you want to do that, I think you have to deal with actual numbers and not just what some guy said.

I hope the number of season ticket holders is going to jump as we move to a new stadium. We need that kind of support for the program to thrive.

I'm with Slosho and Goon. If the donation is required to purchase season tickets, it is part of the season ticket price.

[Prairiehaas]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I cannot read the article since I have exhausted my access. I do not recall saying ...

OldHare, delete the cookies and you will have access. Internet Explorer Control+Shift+Delete

[JackJD]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I'm with Slosho and Goon. If the donation is required to purchase season tickets, it is part of the season ticket price.

Of course that makes sense and I'm not at all critical of that approach (I didn't buy season tickets until my kids were nearly finished with college). I think most season ticket holders are also hard-core fans that will make a donation and try to support the program with more than the cost of a ticket. The proof is in the growing number of season ticket holders each year. Stating the obvious: the only way we get facilities constructed, hire more coaches, pay for scholarships etc etc, is by donations. It's my hope that AD Sell's wish for 5,000 season tickets sold becomes reality and the number continues to grow after that. I think the Bison have sold around 10,000 season tickets for several years.

I have a brother in law who has four season tickets (really good seats, too) for the Minnesota Gophers. He pays more - a LOT more - for just parking/tailgating three blocks from the stadium than I pay for four SDSU season tickets and the required donation including priority parking. Minnesota's season tickets also require a donation and the combined cost is a LOT more than just parking.

People have to make individual decisions. For me, there's a lot more value than just the cost of getting into the game but I'm not watching out for young children etc.

[Nidaros]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

Of course that makes sense and I'm not at all critical of that approach (I didn't buy season tickets until my kids were nearly finished with college). I think most season ticket holders are also hard-core fans that will make a donation and try to support the program with more than the cost of a ticket. The proof is in the growing number of season ticket holders each year. Stating the obvious: the only way we get facilities constructed, hire more coaches, pay for scholarships etc etc, is by donations. It's my hope that AD Sell's wish for 5,000 season tickets sold becomes reality and the number continues to grow after that. I think the Bison have sold around 10,000 season tickets for several years.

I have a brother in law who has four season tickets (really good seats, too) for the Minnesota Gophers. He pays more - a LOT more - for just parking/tailgating three blocks from the stadium than I pay for four SDSU season tickets and the required donation including priority parking. Minnesota's season tickets also require a donation and the combined cost is a LOT more than just parking.

People have to make individual decisions. For me, there's a lot more value than just the cost of getting into the game but I'm not watching out for young children etc.

I don't like the 750 yearly contribution for one loge seat for the next ten years, but like JD pointed out the bigger and more successful the program, the more extra one has to pay to be part of it. Until his year Minnesota has not been successful but the surcharges are expensive. Even our fellow Bison fans will feel some pressure to contribute more after today. We wanted D1 so now we have to pay the piper.

[mmiller_34]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I cannot read the article since I have exhausted my access. I do not recall saying that cold weather does not add cost. I do recall that work was scheduled to occur through the winter prior to the holdup. I would be thinking that the bids included some cold weather. The argument of adding cost is a red herring. Recall that the indoor facility was under construction last winter. It was not enclosed before winter. There were many pieces of equipment running every day. I drove by the construction every week day.

Clear your saved cookies in your web browser. You'll have access to articles again.

[NoVaJack]

Re: New SDSU Football Stadium Site Plan

I don't like the 750 yearly contribution for one loge seat for the next ten years, but like JD pointed out the bigger and more successful the program, the more extra one has to pay to be part of it. Until his year Minnesota has not been successful but the surcharges are expensive. Even our fellow Bison fans will feel some pressure to contribute more after today. We wanted D1 so now we have to pay the piper.

Anyone know what season tickets are in B-Ville?