MO State GDT

[JackJD]

Re: MO State GDT

The fact that you even need to carry a card tells you a lot...simple common sense and math anyone?

I listened to the post-game press conference. It can be accessed through the Argus Leader sports page. I think Stig says "that's what the card said...." but I'm not sure he meant literally some card said to make that call under those circumstances. It seems possible -- and the first interpretation I made when I heard the press conference after it was first linked on the Argus site -- that he was speaking in a more figurative sense, as in the common statement "It's in the cards" or coaches saying "those are the cards dealt to us".

I know coaches carry around a bunch of reading material on the sidelines but I assume those are lists of plays, game notes, reminders of their wife's birthdate etc. Do they carry cards around that show something like the odds of making a certain call? Reducing football to those kinds of decision-making gimmicks, if they exist, is like someone consulting a card showing when a person should ask for another card when playing blackjack. In blackjack, the odds can be mathematically calculated. In football, no card could take into account the many intangibles involved when humans are the players.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: MO State GDT

I listened to the post-game press conference. It can be accessed through the Argus Leader sports page. I think Stig says "that's what the card said...." but I'm not sure he meant literally some card said to make that call under those circumstances. It seems possible -- and the first interpretation I made when I heard the press conference after it was first linked on the Argus site -- that he was speaking in a more figurative sense, as in the common statement "It's in the cards" or coaches saying "those are the cards dealt to us".

I know coaches carry around a bunch of reading material on the sidelines but I assume those are lists of plays, game notes, reminders of their wife's birthdate etc. Do they carry cards around that show something like the odds of making a certain call? Reducing football to those kinds of decision-making gimmicks, if they exist, is like someone consulting a card showing when a person should ask for another card when playing blackjack. In blackjack, the odds can be mathematically calculated. In football, no card could take into account the many intangibles involved when humans are the players.

Here is a 2-point conversion card/chart he is referring to.

http://www.theredzone.org/Features/T...sionChart.aspx

[JackJD]

Re: MO State GDT

I'll be darned. Well, learn something every day.

I guess I wouldn't be much of a coach even if I understood the x's and o's better. I'd trust my guts any day over mathematical-odds chart. I might have some familiarity with the chart but I'm going with guts and whether I'm smelling fear, confidence etc. on my players and the opposing team.

Interesting.

Well, UWMandSDSU, one of other mysteries of football that I cannot seem to get an answer for: why do so many players wear those bands around their biceps, usually just above the elbow?

[JackJD]

Re: MO State GDT

Can we buy the same cards NDSU uses?

[joeboo22]

Re: MO State GDT

Well, UWMandSDSU, one of other mysteries of football that I cannot seem to get an answer for: why do so many players wear those bands around their biceps, usually just above the elbow?

Yeah I've wondered about those as well. I think they just make your biceps look bigger. But I have read where they are suppose to suppress the tendons in the elbow which can prevent severe injury to the elbow, bicep and shoulder.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: MO State GDT

I'll be darned. Well, learn something every day.

Well, UWMandSDSU, one of other mysteries of football that I cannot seem to get an answer for: why do so many players wear those bands around their biceps, usually just above the elbow?

Some of them wear them to catch sweat or prevent tendonitis (which hasn't been proven). But I would say majority is for a fashion statement, accentuating their biceps.

[JackJD]

Re: MO State GDT

Of course, had we made the two-point conversion, this discussion would not take place. If the coaches didn't follow the card and we went for a kick and made it, this discussion likely wouldn't take place.

[jackdaniel]

Re: MO State GDT

The "card" says to,well,who can argue with that.Sorry,don't like to be sarcastic, but i don't agree with the card,not given our failure to score from the one yard line on three attempts,or the fact that the one point is all but gauranteed,so why risk it,and the game was only about one quarter of the way done.Plenty of time to make up the 10-14 defecit.JMO

[Roy]

Re: MO State GDT

The "card" says to,well,who can argue with that.Sorry,don't like to be sarcastic, but i don't agree with the card,not given our failure to score from the one yard line on three attempts,or the fact that the one point is all but gauranteed,so why risk it,and the game was only about one quarter of the way done.Plenty of time to make up the 10-14 defecit.Throw the card away and use common sense instead.JMO

I probably won't say this well, but I will try. What the "card" does is to distill all the facts down to a decision on what are the chances for sucess based on where you are at this point in time. I don't know football but I do know blackjack! You hit 16 against a 7 or higher. (period) Then you live with the result because that gives you the best opportunity to win over a 100, 1000, or 1,000,000 hands.. Same with the extra point. You don't have until Sunday to decide what you should have done. Do what gives you the best chance of sucess and live with it and realize you will be second guessed if the math gods don't smile on you!

[jackdaniel]

Re: MO State GDT

Thats fine to use mathmatical charts if all teams are exactly the same which they aren't ,so you have to evaluate what the chances are for success based on your knowlege of your team.Right? I just wouldn't put so much emphesis on a chart that doesn't factor in my chances of making a two point conversion or not,after all,if you have a history of having difficulties making short yardage inside the one or two yard line, why would you risk it when you can go for the sure point?Also,that 3pt FG we kicked just became a one pt FG,3-1(failed 2-pt conversion),-1(another failed 2 pt conversion) = 1.That two points would have been our margin of victory instead of a tie and having to win it in two OT'S,if everything else played out the same.JMO You might see it differently,that's OK because not everyone sees things exactly the same way.

[jackdaniel]

Re: MO State GDT

I listened to the post-game press conference. It can be accessed through the Argus Leader sports page. I think Stig says "that's what the card said...." but I'm not sure he meant literally some card said to make that call under those circumstances. It seems possible -- and the first interpretation I made when I heard the press conference after it was first linked on the Argus site -- that he was speaking in a more figurative sense, as in the common statement "It's in the cards" or coaches saying "those are the cards dealt to us".

I know coaches carry around a bunch of reading material on the sidelines but I assume those are lists of plays, game notes, reminders of their wife's birthdate etc. Do they carry cards around that show something like the odds of making a certain call? Reducing football to those kinds of decision-making gimmicks, if they exist, is like someone consulting a card showing when a person should ask for another card when playing blackjack. In blackjack, the odds can be mathematically calculated. In football, no card could take into account the many intangibles involved when humans are the players.

THIS (he says it much more eloquently than i can)

[rational thought]

Re: MO State GDT

The fact that you even need to carry a card tells you a lot...simple common sense and math anyone?

I'm willing to wager(and you can name your $$), most coaching staff's(if not all) have "the card"(when to go for 2) in the press box, and sidelines...., so unless you've been there and done that, you probably shouldn't comment on the simple math that takes place as to when to go for 2. I usually sit back and read...but when someone says something really off the wall, I've got to put in my 2 cents

[joeboo22]

Re: MO State GDT

I agree, I believe that card or a similar one is usually part of that big card most head coaches possess. If not one of the assistants have one somewhere. I don't have a problem with the card, but generally I've never heard of anyone going to the card in the first half.

[JackJD]

Re: MO State GDT

As I said earlier, I didn't know such a card was used -- or, if I had thought about it, I can see how such a card provides guidance but I'd trust my guts first and the card would only be one factor taken into account. I like to think Stig meant that they had decided to go for two and the card showing the impact of scoring two as opposed to one in that scoring situation, supported the decision. The press conference statement, if taken literally, seems to suggest one just follows the card blindly. Surely the coach didn't mean that.

All of us could stretch the facts and come up with situations in which the card makes no sense (e.g. all your place kickers missed the bus to Fargo, no one else on the team can kick further than 5 feet, and in the meantime, your running back is so good he's nearly guaranteed ten yards a carry --- card says "kick". I say RUN) and I think some posters questioned going for two under all of the circumstances. Fans are remembering we've had some difficulty kicking field goals and a couple of PATs. Had the two-point conversion worked, we'd all admire the decision.

Reminds me of Minnesota Coach Kill commenting on the on-side kick in the win against Iowa Saturday. If it had not worked, Coach Kill's sanity would have been questioned. I'll bet there wasn't a card that said go for an onside kick but the Minnesota coaches probably watched a lot of film and knew Iowa would not be prepared for an onside kick at that point. And they weren't.

[jackdaniel]

Re: MO State GDT

So you would go for two ,because the card says to,even though you've had very little success to this point in the year of making very short yardage down on the goal line?Why would you,hoping to beat the odds?Most coaches might have them,but they probably wouldn't consider it as an option given the fact they've had trouble punching it in close to the goal all year long would they?To be truthful,i don't see coaches going for two after a td nearly as much as this team does.It's the higher risk option, otherwise you'd see it a lot more.Most coaches only do it in dire circumstances.It's the same reason why you don't see teams trying for a first down on 4th and two,they punt it away, too risky(although it's a little bit different in that you don't want them to get the ball with a short field to the goal line,granted) except late in the game when there's no other way to have a chance to win.All plays are subject to success or failure,but if you've had trouble with making short yardage inside the two all year long, why go for it.Wouldn't kicking the xtra point be safer? I'm not going to justify my opinion anymore....i can see some people don't agree with it and thats fine with me, i can live with that.