Spring Game

[mitchell]

Re: Spring Game

Long time, first time here. My take on the spring game and a couple of other thoughts.

First-Oline looked great, who ever thought they sucked doesn't know what they are talking about. 1's gave up a couple of sacks but generally it what a coverage sack. They picked up twists and blitzes very well. Zone running is absolutely the last thing that will click for an offense. It takes much more time than even the timing routes receivers and qb's need. They had some great outside zones blocked mid season form, sealed the edge and hammered the alley player, where the running back slipped, tossed the ball in front of him. Castle fills in nicely for mcknight, wont notice a let up. The weak spot on the oline is right guard with buckner and olinger roatating, one of them will have to step up but overall the oline will be the best in the conference by mid season.

Which brings me to my next subject. Now is the time to make the move with Sumner. You give him a year where all he needs to do is not turn the ball over, make a couple 3rd down throws and all of a sudden we are in the mix with the top of the conference. At the end of the spring game you could see Sumner really get in to a rhythm. TOB, for however long I have seen him play, has never got in to a rhythm. Sumner throws a very, very catchable ball. Even when TOB completes a pass it is never smooth, I think that is do to him throwing a hard ball to catch. He has NO TOUCH. Kind of like a pitcher in baseball throwing a 95mph fastball but can't throw it over the plate, wont get you far in the big leagues.

Welcome to the board and thanks for you input.

When it comes to TOB I've been taking the Coach Stig approach in that the upperclassmen should get his shot until he proves otherwise.
I know this was just a spring game but I think TOB's shot has probably come and gone. This was his opportunity to show us that he can get the job done, and even though the conditions weren't great, he didn't come through like he needed too.
I'm ready to jump on the Sumner band wagon but if Coach decides to go with TOB than I will put my confidence in his decision.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Spring Game

I just don't see how, after one meaningless and joke of a sping game, anyone can say for sure that Sumner should start over TOB. I think that there is a ton of talent in Austin, but to think that a kid that hasn't taken a single snap in a real college football game is going to be heads and shoulders better is naive.

Perhaps if this team had a proven stud at running back you can make a move. Perhaps if this team had a proven wide out corps you can make the move. But, neither of those exist. Add to that the fact that we don't know what we are going to get from the O-line and you are setting the RS freshman up to fail.

I bet that 90% of the people that are calling for TOB's job are the same ones that wanted him to start instead of Berry. Here is what should happen this year. TOB needs to be the starter because of his experience of running the team and then get Sumner a few snaps in real game experience.

If we throw the kid, Sumner, out as our starter this season won't be any better than last year and it could put a crack in his confidence.

[jackmd]

Re: Spring Game

I just don't see how, after one meaningless and joke of a sping game, anyone can say for sure that Sumner should start over TOB. I think that there is a ton of talent in Austin, but to think that a kid that hasn't taken a single snap in a real college football game is going to be heads and shoulders better is naive.

I bet that 90% of the people that are calling for TOB's job are the same ones that wanted him to start instead of Berry. Here is what should happen this year. TOB needs to be the starter because of his experience of running the team and then get Sumner a few snaps in real game experience.

I haven't gotten the impression that anyone is using just the spring game as a reason to consider someone new at the QB position. I think it's a combination of factors. I'm not suggesting TOB be replaced, simply pointing out that his performance on Saturday didn't do anything to solidify his position as the starter.

As for the Berry comparison, I don't think we have any idea if that is true or not. Removing emotion and using facts is what Coach Stig will do. The fact is that TOB has a full year of experience as the starting QB and that should give him a big advantage. That doesn't mean he can perform poorly or not show improvement. I think he did both in the spring game and I'm glad I don't have to make any decisions.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Spring Game

As for the Berry comparison, I don't think we have any idea if that is true or not. Removing emotion and using facts is what Coach Stig will do. The fact is that TOB has a full year of experience as the starting QB and that should give him a big advantage. That doesn't mean he can perform poorly or not show improvement. I think he did both in the spring game and I'm glad I don't have to make any decisions.

I agree the decision is going to be difficult. My only real issue that there are a good many folks that are certain that Sumner is going to step in and lead this team better than any other QB. That seems like a very steep task for a kid that hasn't ever played in a FCS game. The Missouri Valley is a long way from the ESD.

I think the more concerning issue with this team is the offensive philosophy. Doesn't matter who takes the snap if the offense is so bland that defenses don't even need to think to make plays. Swing passes and dives are a great option once and awhile, but seems that is all the offensive coaches have written on their play-cards.

[JackItUp78]

Re: Spring Game

I just think that we have seen what TOB is capable of. He has worked his tail off from everything I have heard and read about. Maybe he has reached his ceiling. I think Sumner can go in there and throw just as many pick six's and turnovers as TOB can. There is basically the same amount of risk but with Sumner I see greater potential. Now is the time if ever to start a freshman. Remember the oline only gave up 6 sacks on the entire year. So he had time to throw the ball.

I just don't see how, after one meaningless and joke of a sping game, anyone can say for sure that Sumner should start over TOB. I think that there is a ton of talent in Austin, but to think that a kid that hasn't taken a single snap in a real college football game is going to be heads and shoulders better is naive.

Perhaps if this team had a proven stud at running back you can make a move. Perhaps if this team had a proven wide out corps you can make the move. But, neither of those exist. Add to that the fact that we don't know what we are going to get from the O-line and you are setting the RS freshman up to fail.

I bet that 90% of the people that are calling for TOB's job are the same ones that wanted him to start instead of Berry. Here is what should happen this year. TOB needs to be the starter because of his experience of running the team and then get Sumner a few snaps in real game experience.

If we throw the kid, Sumner, out as our starter this season won't be any better than last year and it could put a crack in his confidence.

[SpeedRabbit]

Re: Spring Game

I just think that we have seen what TOB is capable of. He has worked his tail off from everything I have heard and read about. Maybe he has reached his ceiling. I think Sumner can go in there and throw just as many pick six's and turnovers as TOB can. There is basically the same amount of risk but with Sumner I see greater potential. Now is the time if ever to start a freshman. Remember the oline only gave up 6 sacks on the entire year. So he had time to throw the ball.

My prediction is that TOB will start and the leash will be cut to a very short length. Just a prediction obviously!

[joeboo22]

Re: Spring Game

I just think that we have seen what TOB is capable of. He has worked his tail off from everything I have heard and read about. Maybe he has reached his ceiling. I think Sumner can go in there and throw just as many pick six's and turnovers as TOB can. There is basically the same amount of risk but with Sumner I see greater potential. Now is the time if ever to start a freshman. Remember the oline only gave up 6 sacks on the entire year. So he had time to throw the ball.

The thing is Sumner can't make the throws that TOB can. Ask anyone in the program and they will say that.

The O-line may have only gave up 6 sacks but whether it was the O-line, RB or the coaches the running game was not established as much as it should have been. On top of that TOB could have took a lot more sacks and probably wouldn't have thrown as many INT's.

I know that most everyone grew up here watching Sumner play and therefore he must be a great player but considering the people I talk to in the program say its not a controversy and its not close I question how good is he.

When it was Crawford there were people saying that TOB was the better option, people saying it was very close, and so on. I've never heard that about Sumner and until I do I'm not going to come on here and say Sumner must be better because he was good in high school or because he made some nice plays against the second string defense at the spring game in the second half.

As far as the depth chart with not wanting anyone to transfer I think that has to do more with Jordan Thomas. From what I've gathered they want Sumner to run the scout team and if he is the "back up" he wouldn't be able to. However if they did make a change or TOB was hurt for more then a few plays Sumner would go in. Just the way it was explained to me.

[da_coach]

Re: Spring Game

Two quick things on the qb situation, and I'm out, not to touch on it again.

1. The coaches know more about what they want and what they are expecting, and who can do what, than anyone on a message board. If they pick TOB, there's a reason...they're coaching to win, too.

2. When TOB was a freshman... people were rallying for him to play, and he played pretty well. The next season, he loses his WR's, and some Offensive Linemen, and all of a sudden he's not so great... so now we're wanting his backup? Really? Patience is needed my friends. It's not easy, and it's not popular. But it's needed.

[jackmd]

Re: Spring Game

Two quick things on the qb situation, and I'm out, not to touch on it again.

1. The coaches know more about what they want and what they are expecting, and who can do what, than anyone on a message board. If they pick TOB, there's a reason...they're coaching to win, too.

2. When TOB was a freshman... people were rallying for him to play, and he played pretty well. The next season, he loses his WR's, and some Offensive Linemen, and all of a sudden he's not so great... so now we're wanting his backup? Really? Patience is needed my friends. It's not easy, and it's not popular. But it's needed.

I agree, with the exception or addition that patience is needed by the coaching staff and they have shown that. Fans can be as patient or impatient as they want. Wins are what will keep the most people happy for the most of the time. Don't care how well the QB plays if we don't compete week in and week out than fans won't be as happy.

[shot_5533]

Re: Spring Game

I saw the game Saturday. Unfortunately for this forum, there were only about 300 fans there Saturday.

The wind was a huge factor and has not been discussed. Aaron Rodgers would have had a tough time going against that wind. The defense getting four points for a 50 yard punt with a 30 mph. wind is a joke.

The O-line was not responsible for all of the sacks. I'd say half of the sacks were from holding on to the ball to long. A huge part of the problem was the receivers were not getting open. When they did get hit in the hands with passes, they dropped a lot. The O-line could have played better, but Meadows was switching them in and out like a Chinese fire drill and they didn't have a chance to develop consistency. Kool did not look great in the mud, contrary to TV's statements. Zenner looks like a young Kyle M. Zenner will be good. The TE's looked better than expected.

Defense, Bowers looked great. LB's looked awesome. Wise and the DB's will be OK; they sure blanketed our receivers.

But again, when the D knows every play and every audible the Offense runs, it is too easy for them. Not a true test. When the offense started running sweep plays that the D had not seen much of before, the Offense started moving down the field.

Why won't Stig have two offenses and two defenses go at each other,? I don't know, aren't the Jacks DI?

That being said - TOB looked terrible. Yes, he may have a cannon for an arm. A lot of QB's in the NFL have cannons. Does that make a good QB? It helps, but it is not the most important trait. Have you heard of a QB named Joe Montana? He did not have a cannon. Did Ryan Berry have a cannon? Throwing touchdown picks to the D in the redzone (5 yard line) is totally unacceptable for a Junior, one and one half year starter. TOB showed his cannon on that INT.

Please give me a rational explanation for that throw TOB defenders. Just one rational excuse.

Were any of you that are defending him at the Spring Game?

In my humble opinion, TOB does not appear to make the reads quick enough to be effective. When the whole point of spring practice is to take care of the ball and prevent Turnovers... and your starting QB throws three bad picks, it does not look good. Plus you people that did not attend did not see TOB throw the ball out of bounds when receivers were open (good move to prevent INT's, but not for moving the offense). You did not see him miss open receivers. You did not see him lock on to one receiver like last year. He never looks off the safeties. I think people may be right, he cannot see over the line. There was one play early in the game. TOB rolled left on third down and could have walked the 7 yards for a first down; instead he chose to throw the ball out of bounds losing the drive. Smart. If you attended the game, you could have seen Austin Sumner run for good gains.

TV has it right. Trust him on this people. And don't you think the coaches are aware of the QB problem and concerned about it? Practice is not a spring game. Spring game is not a real DI game. It can get worse.

[shot_5533]

Re: Spring Game

I agree, with the exception or addition that patience is needed by the coaching staff and they have shown that. Fans can be as patient or impatient as they want. Wins are what will keep the most people happy for the most of the time. Don't care how well the QB plays if we don't compete week in and week out than fans won't be as happy.

If the QB does not play better, we won't win. Check the stats. Turnovers decide who wins or loses.

[joeboo22]

Re: Spring Game

If the QB does not play better, we won't win. Check the stats. Turnovers decide who wins or loses.

but not all turnovers are QB's faults, yet they get the blame for them in the box score. The WR makes a bad break, the WR runs the wrong route, the OT misses a block. Yet they are all blamed on the QB. I'm not saying TOB lit things up last year or was very impressive but if you watch the entire game you see that not all of his INT's were his fault. How many times did you see a WR drop a ball on 2nd down so he forced it on 3rd down. Or no gain on 1st and 2nd down so its 3rd and 10 and you have to pass.

As far as running, from everything I've heard/read the coaches have told him not to run.


As far as the message boards I love how everyone on here is a QB coach, a scout and a genius all in one now. I'll admit I get myself into the debate as well from time to time, but come on, its April, (yes there is snow on the ground but its still April). In 4 months when fall practice begins we will have this debate again. But until a coach or a player comes and tells me that Sumner is clearly better, I'm not going to buy it. I'm guessing if he would have thrown 3 TD's and no INT's that people would still be on here saying Sumner is better.

But hey don't stop because of me....

[shot_5533]

Re: Spring Game

but not all turnovers are QB's faults, yet they get the blame for them in the box score. The WR makes a bad break, the WR runs the wrong route, the OT misses a block. Yet they are all blamed on the QB. I'm not saying TOB lit things up last year or was very impressive but if you watch the entire game you see that not all of his INT's were his fault. How many times did you see a WR drop a ball on 2nd down so he forced it on 3rd down. Or no gain on 1st and 2nd down so its 3rd and 10 and you have to pass.

As far as running, from everything I've heard/read the coaches have told him not to run.


As far as the message boards I love how everyone on here is a QB coach, a scout and a genius all in one now. I'll admit I get myself into the debate as well from time to time, but come on, its April, (yes there is snow on the ground but its still April). In 4 months when fall practice begins we will have this debate again. But until a coach or a player comes and tells me that Sumner is clearly better, I'm not going to buy it. I'm guessing if he would have thrown 3 TD's and no INT's that people would still be on here saying Sumner is better.

But hey don't stop because of me....

Joeboo, the coaches know they are in trouble with TOB. The Jacks football programs biggest problem is that currently, he might be the best we have. Do not expect a good season if he is. I wouldn't be suprised if he loses the players soon now also.

TOB has thrown too many INT's for it to be the fault of others. It is always the QB's fault no excuses like you like to give.

I asked for a rational defense of TOB and did not recieve one from you.

Please explain his red zone 95 yard return INT of last Saturday. Who's fault was it?

[jackrabit1]

Re: Spring Game

It seems you have a real beef against TOB, shot. I was at several of those games last year and I seem to recall there were several GOOD passes that he threw, only to have the receivers drop them. Or to have someone make a stupid penalty that killed a good drive. The Illinois State game really comes to mind.

Now, I'm not going to say he was perfect, because he wasn't. But at the same time, to have him shoulder all the blame for last season is a bit unreasonable. After all, this is a TEAM. Which means they WIN as a team and they LOSE as a team.

I thought we had a lot of talent last year, but the big problem I saw was that this team didn't take care of the details. And as any coach from Pee-Wee football all the way to the NFL will tell you, details are the difference-makers between mediocre teams and good teams... and between good teams and great teams.

Could Saturday have been a fluke? Possibly. We all have fluke-y days. But as Allen Iverson once said, "We're talking about practice. PRACTICE." What happens in a simulated game and an actual game is completely different... different mindset, different personnel, different strategy. I'm not ready to completely go into panic mode just because of one bad PRACTICE.

Now if TOB can't do the job in the game, then yes, he needs to be replaced. But for everyone who is clamoring for Sumner to take over and be the savior of the Jackrabbit offense, just remember this name....

Ready for it?

Helps if you're a Vikings fan....

Tavaris Jackson.

[jackrabit1]

Re: Spring Game

P.S. I've had the pleasure to work with TV. I consider him a colleague and a friend. But just because TV says something is so, doesn't make it the gospel truth. I'm willing to hold judgement until the first game of the season.