USD, UND Double Dual

[jacksdistance]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

My favorite part of the P+D article: “And honestly, it means a little more when our relays win, because that’s more of the team part of the whole thing,”

SDSU relays 3, USD relays 1

[MaddogJack]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

For those of you that don't remember Mr. Hoeck (that wrote the PD article) - he had an interesting take on SDSU's move when he wrote an op-ed in the Argus Leader back in 2005, while a student at USD. (search the archives and read for yourself)

The summary of his argument went something like:

"In my opinion, SDSU's move to Division I athletics has been getting far too much exposure from news organizations in the state - including the Argus Leader. Why publicize the university's ill-fated plunge? Why not give USD its due? The Coyotes and their success have been overshadowed by the Jackrabbits for the past five months....
I might be a little biased because I attend the University of South Dakota, but I personally couldn't care less how SDSU fares in Division I. With every loss, with every setback and with every article, I laugh uncontrollably."

He was obviously laughing uncontrollably when he wrote the summation of the double dual in Yankton.

(Master Filbert - I'm trying to use restraint....)

[filbert]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

For those of you that don't remember Mr. Hoeck (that wrote the PD article) - he had an interesting take on SDSU's move when he wrote an op-ed in the Argus Leader back in 2005, while a student at USD. (search the archives and read for yourself)

The summary of his argument went something like:

"In my opinion, SDSU's move to Division I athletics has been getting far too much exposure from news organizations in the state - including the Argus Leader. Why publicize the university's ill-fated plunge? Why not give USD its due? The Coyotes and their success have been overshadowed by the Jackrabbits for the past five months....
I might be a little biased because I attend the University of South Dakota, but I personally couldn't care less how SDSU fares in Division I. With every loss, with every setback and with every article, I laugh uncontrollably."

He was obviously laughing uncontrollably when he wrote the summation of the double dual in Yankton.

(Master Filbert - I'm trying to use restraint....)

One of the problems with laughing uncontrollably is that it's . . . um . . . uncontrollable . . .

[yoteforever]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

It really wasn't run that badly. The scoring, although trying to describe the system may be difficult, in reality it wasn't that bad. I was there among the pack of muts fans. (I did have to draw some things out on a napkin for them to understand the scoring system) We looked at this as a practice meet in my opinion as we did not place or start the best we have in every event. So they can crow all they want, but we would have stomped them and the UND group in most events if we were out for blood.

I was told that we didn't even send our varsity, so I guess you are in real trouble????

Reality is your men won, our women won........both were very close and well competed. USD didn't rig a scoring system to embarrass SDSU or anyone for that matter. The reality is a simple track meet brings out the "worst" on both sides. If someone from USD crowed over this excessively then so be it. But for someone to claim they didn't have their best at the meet is insane.

The truth of the matter is that USD won the womens side and SDSU won the mens (both by a hare....USD humor there). USD has an established track program and has had for years. If you want to see a "water downed" version of what happened at the meet, go to your website. About the only thing it says is you were in Yankton.

JackJD, you are a good guy and well respected poster. What would make you say..."here we go again" as if USD did something so off the wall? I hate to tell you this, but this isn't the only sport USD will win at as we head into the same leagues in football and basketball. So everytime one loses and the excuses fly, it demeans the competition itself.

It was a darned good track meet. Period. Regardless who won, it was well competed. Leave it at that.

YFE

[zooropa]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

One of the problems with laughing uncontrollably is that it's . . . um . . . uncontrollable . . .

My experience is that most people who say they were laughing uncontrollably weren't.

[JackJD]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

JackJD,...What would make you say..."here we go again" as if USD did something so off the wall? I hate to tell you this, but this isn't the only sport USD will win at as we head into the same leagues in football and basketball. So everytime one loses and the excuses fly, it demeans the competition itself.

It was a darned good track meet. Period. Regardless who won, it was well competed. Leave it at that.

YFE

Fair question and fair comment about my "here we go again". When the scoring was first announced, it was reported the men's and women's teams were scored as one and USD won it. I ran track four years at SDSU -- USD's coach, Dave Gottsleben and I were teammates for three of those years and Dave's a friend. Two of my sons ran X-country and track at SDSU, four years each. I've been to a lot of track meets. I continue to go to and help out at track meets. I cannot recall ever hearing about a meet scored by combining the men's and women's teams as one.

I have a pretty good idea of what's on SDSU's men's team this year and that's a potent force if the coach wants to run a meet strong etc. I don't know if the scoring method was known prior to the meet -- it would have been possible for the SDSU men to load up more and score the points necessary so the combined total would reflect SDSU winning the meet.

My "here we go again" comment a reaction based on fear that all sorts of nastiness may suddenly return as the rivalry returns. I'll call it an overreaction on my part, prompted in part on my recollection of the not too distant past when there was a lot of acrimony (put the blame anywhere you want -- it was not a lot of fun) as compared to the more distant past when there was a darned good rivalry but some fun, too.

Hey, what do you expect out of a guy who could only run and turn left?

[yoteforever]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

Fair question and fair comment about my "here we go again". When the scoring was first announced, it was reported the men's and women's teams were scored as one and USD won it. I ran track four years at SDSU -- USD's coach, Dave Gottsleben and I were teammates for three of those years and Dave's a friend. Two of my sons ran X-country and track at SDSU, four years each. I've been to a lot of track meets. I continue to go to and help out at track meets. I cannot recall ever hearing about a meet scored by combining the men's and women's teams as one.

I have a pretty good idea of what's on SDSU's men's team this year and that's a potent force if the coach wants to run a meet strong etc. I don't know if the scoring method was known prior to the meet -- it would have been possible for the SDSU men to load up more and score the points necessary so the combined total would reflect SDSU winning the meet.

My "here we go again" comment a reaction based on fear that all sorts of nastiness may suddenly return as the rivalry returns. I'll call it an overreaction on my part, prompted in part on my recollection of the not too distant past when there was a lot of acrimony (put the blame anywhere you want -- it was not a lot of fun) as compared to the more distant past when there was a darned good rivalry but some fun, too.

Hey, what do you expect out of a guy who could only run and turn left?

I had forgotten you had run track. You are far more knowledgable about the topic than I am, that's for sure. I have a great deal of respect for your posts and logic. It is going to take fans like that as we head into the renewed rivalry to act in a responsible way.

No one should ever confuse passion with misbehavior. There will be plenty of both on both sides of the net, ball, goal, whatever. When you made the comment about the scoring, what I thought you meant was USD placed heavier emphasis (i.e. more points) on events they thought they could win. That would have been wrong.

As far as I am concerned, we split. What I did hear was that both sides ran or executed their hearts out. You know what? That's what this renewed rivalry should be. Lay out your best, and winners and losers alike need to act responsibly.

I know it won't be till fall of '13, but I will start the good will process by inviting as many SDSU fans to my tailgate as we can handle. Obviously I will need head counts, but I want it to go well in Vermillion, so I will pay for the party in '13. It will be fun to get to know everyone and have proper banter amongst the competition.

For a guy that only turned left, you're not so bad.

YFE

[mgbison]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

Does anyone know, how would the coyotes do in the summit?

[jacksdistance]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

I was told that we didn't even send our varsity, so I guess you are in real trouble????

Reality is your men won, our women won........both were very close and well competed. USD didn't rig a scoring system to embarrass SDSU or anyone for that matter. The reality is a simple track meet brings out the "worst" on both sides. If someone from USD crowed over this excessively then so be it. But for someone to claim they didn't have their best at the meet is insane.

The truth of the matter is that USD won the womens side and SDSU won the mens (both by a hare....USD humor there). USD has an established track program and has had for years. If you want to see a "water downed" version of what happened at the meet, go to your website. About the only thing it says is you were in Yankton.

JackJD, you are a good guy and well respected poster. What would make you say..."here we go again" as if USD did something so off the wall? I hate to tell you this, but this isn't the only sport USD will win at as we head into the same leagues in football and basketball. So everytime one loses and the excuses fly, it demeans the competition itself.

It was a darned good track meet. Period. Regardless who won, it was well competed. Leave it at that.

YFE

You don't know much about track. Stop pretending.

I bolded a statement of yours. Here's my evidence that SDSU did, in fact, not run their best athletes.
1- 2nd place Summit League 800 Jake Schneller did not run the 800.
2- Jared Ailts, SDSU's best 1500 meter runner didn't run the 1500
3- Jared Vlastuin, the best long jumper in the field by 2+ feet did not long jump
4- Ben Jasinski is the best all-around athlete from these two schools and was at the Texas relays. He could have won as many events as he wanted.
5- Greg Vollmer has the #1 time in the Summit in the steeple and will probably go to regionals. He didn't run the steeple.
6- Luke Leischer is SDSU's school record 400m runner. He didn't run the 400 or 4x4.
7- Marshall Kambestad and Greg Beesley went 1-2 in the 5k at last years Summit League outdoor meet. USD chose not to have a 5k because SDSU is better at that event. These two ran the 1500 as a speed workout.
8- Versatile distance runner Mike Krsnak only ran the 3k. He would have beaten USD's Travis Brenner in the 1500 as well.

USD also chose the order of events. They did this in ways to discourage SDSU doubling. There is a proper order of events that should be followed.

They also chose the scoring system and it was not proper dual scoring either. Their system guaranteed 3 points per event per team. Real scoring guarantees none.

Mgbison: I would give both USD teams 4th at the recent Indoor championships.

[JackJD]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

After reading JackDistance's well-supported post, I'm back to the "here we go again" and this time I'll add a head-slap.

[jacksdistance]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

I'd like to think I know more about the current state of Jackrabbit Track and Field than any other poster on this board. Especially some 'yote fan that isn't related to their track team.

[Nidaros]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

I'd like to think I know more about the current state of Jackrabbit Track and Field than any other poster on this board. Especially some 'yote fan that isn't related to their track team.

Yes you do know what is going on with SDSU track and field. Keep posting, you go big blue. Yoteforever often feels his ox is being gored, but is a good guy.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

I'd like to think I know more about the current state of Jackrabbit Track and Field than any other poster on this board. Especially some 'yote fan that isn't related to their track team.

A feather in your cap, I'm sure.

[Drake]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

It was a great meet ... USD and SDSU coaches visiting throughout ... Yankton High School alum running for both schools posed for a pic after the meet. After the results of each event were announced, the dual scores were read and then the combined team scores were read. Only two athletes from the same team could score in one event, so teams could not load up events and get points. All in all, a very good atmosphere and not the underhanded meet that seems to have evolved on this board.

The USD men have taken a real hit in scholarships since the DI move has been going on. SDSU has done a very good job recruiting in the past years and has a number of quality athletes. The men will get more scholies when the Summit move takes place. The women have maintained their scholarships and are making the tranistion well. They have recruited some good athletes this year (# 2 and #4 girls vaulters in the country) and should be able to be competive in the Summit.

[jacksfaninne]

Re: USD, UND Double Dual

Thank goodness they didn't report attendance!