Announcement

**gojacksgo** · 07-08-2009, 11:58 AM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Alot of speculation finally comes to an end.

I know this scenario has been talked about, but now that it has happened...Where does the Summit go from here? Do they add a full D1 member in order to assure the auto-bid(in case one more leaves I believe?)

Options:
Denver - Sun Belt
Utah Valley State - Independent
Chicago State - formerly of the Summit - Now independent - Lots of problems there

How many years until SDSU/NDSU count towards member schools towards the auto-bid?

**zooropa** · 07-08-2009, 12:37 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

IPFW will be a counter by then, but consider the rationale for the counter requirement: It's to prevent the tournaments from being watered down by weak newcomers to D1

SDSU & NDSU in their first and second (VB-'07) years of eligibility have amassed a pretty respectable tournament record:

SDSU: 2-3 (WSoc: 1-1, WBB: 1-1, VB: 0-1)
NDSU: 2-3 (MBB: 0-1, VB: 0-1, SB: 2-1)

Going 4-6 in INITIAL tournament appearances, IMO, argues for granting a waiver to the AQ rules, if nothing else does. Heck, SDSU & NDSU won HALF the first round games they played in over the past two years!!!

**HoboD** · 07-08-2009, 12:53 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Originally posted by zooropa View Post

Going 4-6 in INITIAL tournament appearances, IMO, argues for granting a waiver to the AQ rules, if nothing else does. Heck, SDSU & NDSU won HALF the first round games they played in over the past two years!!!

I think its very unrealistic to expect a waiver from the NCAA. The major conferences want more bids, they control the process. If the Summit loses theirs because we dont have enough core members, its just one more bid for a major team.

**zooropa** · 07-08-2009, 01:03 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Originally posted by HoboD View Post

I think its very unrealistic to expect a waiver from the NCAA. The major conferences want more bids, they control the process. If the Summit loses theirs because we dont have enough core members, its just one more bid for a major team.

I think the waiver's granted for a two year term. If the Summit will meet the core requirement by 2014 (with the waiver covering 2012 & 2013), I think a waiver's a reasonable expectation--although by no means guaranteed.

**joeboo22** · 07-08-2009, 01:40 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

If Denver joined would they get rid of the problem right away? or do they have to be in the league so long before they count?

**76Rabbit** · 07-08-2009, 02:14 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Can someone please post an explanation of the automatic bids for the league. I remember the discussions when we were first making the move to D1 but have forgotten what the criteria is.

**zooropa** · 07-08-2009, 02:54 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

From the NCAA manual:

31.3.4.2 Requirements—National Collegiate Championship. [#] To be eligible for automatic qualification in National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member can not be used to meet the requisite number);
(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;
(c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and
(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifer.

31.3.4.3 Notification—Automatic Qualification in Jeopardy. A governing sports committee must issue a written warning one year in advance to a conference that is in jeopardy of losing its automatic qualification. (Note: This regulation does not apply to the following championships in which a play-in system has been established: baseball, women’s softball, women’s volleyball and men’s soccer.) (Adopted: 10/3/06)
31.3.4.4 Additional Requirements, Sports Other Than Men’s Basketball.
31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particular sport, a multisport member conference must include six core institutions that satisfy continuity-of-
membership. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding two years in the applicable sport. There shall be no exceptions to the two-year waiting period. Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies the continuity of membership requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 4/27/00, 10/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04, 8/5/04)

31.3.4.4.3 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below
six institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership, provided the conference maintains at least five Division I members. (Adopted: 8/5/04)

31.3.4.5 Additional Requirements, Men’s Basketball. The member conference must include seven core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men’s basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the
conference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)
31.3.4.5.1 Grace Period. A conference shall remain eligible for automatic qualification for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference’s membership to fall below seven institutions, or below six members with continuity of membership, provided the ctains at least six Division I members. (Adopted: 4/27/00; Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

p. 384, 385

Basically this is what it boils down to:

7 teams with
8 years in D-1 and
6 teams with
5 consecutive years in the conference

In 2011 the Summit will have 7 members that meet the full 8/7/6/5 requirement. They need 6:
UMKC
IUPUI
Oakland
Oral Roberts
SUU
WIU
IPFW

SDSU & NDSU will make 9 by 2016--assuming no further membership shakeups.

(helpful graph)

**Hammersmith** · 07-08-2009, 03:03 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Okay, there's no immediate danger, so let's all calm down a bit.

The simple way to remember the MBB autobid rule is 7/6/5. You need 7 core members, 6 of which have played together as a conference for the previous 5 years. At the moment, the Summit has 8 core members, 7 of which have played together for at least 5 years. With the loss of Centenary, we will be right on the line, but in no need for any type of waiver. Also, the 2-year warning Centenary had to give will give IPFW enough time to count as one of the needed 6 "continuity of membership" schools should another member leave.

In other words, even if a second school were to leave the Summit in the next couple years, the conference would be okay as long as it quickly added another core member. With Chicago State and UTPA both desperate for a real conference, adding one of them would be easy(as a last resort).

My guess is that Douple will hold UND in the wings until Denver is convinced that the Summit is the only real choice they have. That might take a couple years until the Sun Belt's deadline starts to loom. In case you don't know, the Sun Belt gave Denver and the University of New Orleans a five-year window to add enough Sun Belt sports to get to a minimum number they just set up. UNO plans to comply(and they just got a huge donation that will get them there), but Denver has said they have no plans to add sports. I think the deadline is up in 2012 or 2013, so Denver will be forced to decide in 2011 or 2012. Since those are the years USD will become a Summit member, there's no real need to push UND through quickly. Of course, I said the same thing about USD, so...

Oh, and in response to zoo's post: IPFW is already a core member. They just haven't been in the conference for five years.

**TeaJackrabbit** · 07-08-2009, 03:12 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

I know I'm a fan of a newcomer to the league....but....I'm glad Centenary is leaving.

What does this do for UND? They would be the 11th school. I imagine the league wants to be at 10 or 12.

I would vote for Utah Valley to get in. It's 3 hours from SUU (45 minutes from Salt Lake City) and I think they would compete well in the Summit. They have finished above .500 for 20some years in men's hoops, have an enrollment of 20,000+, play in a nice arena, etc.

**zooropa** · 07-08-2009, 03:18 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Originally posted by Hammersmith View Post

IPFW is already a core member. They just haven't been in the conference for five years.

Yeah. I did my math wrong. IPFW hasn't met the 5 consecutive years standard yet, but they'll qualify in 2011/2012, Centenary's last year in the conference.

BTW, you can make the rule 8/7/6/5 if you want:

8 years in D-1 makes you a 'core' member. Of a minimum 7 'core' members, 6 must have been in the conference for the past 5 years.

**JACKGUYII** · 07-08-2009, 03:22 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Contrary to many extreme Bison fans thinking UND is just too attractive to the Summit on many levels to not get an immediate invite once they get their nickname issue resolved this fall.

**Hammersmith** · 07-08-2009, 03:27 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Originally posted by zooropa View Post

Yeah. I did my math wrong. IPFW hasn't met the 5 consecutive years standard yet, but they'll qualify in 2011/2012, Centenary's last year in the conference.

BTW, you can make the rule 8/7/6/5 if you want:

8 years in D-1 makes you a 'core' member. Of a minimum 7 'core' members, 6 must have been in the conference for the past 5 years.

Sorry, your math was wrong again. IPFW joined with us, so this was their second year in the conference. Centenary will leave in two more years, so there will be a one-year gap between Cent leaving and IPFW satisfying the continuity of membership requirement. This is where the two-year grace period would come in. Now, that's only necessary if we lose another school, but it's nice to have in our back pocket.

2007-08: IPFW, NDSU & SDSU join
2008-09: IPFW year 2
2009-10: IPFW year 3
2010-11: IPFW year 4 + Centenary's last year
2011-12: IPFW year 5 (gap year)
2012-13: IPFW counts toward continuity of membership

**rabidrabbit** · 07-08-2009, 03:27 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

UND IS attractive, but like the SU's, does nothing to resolve the CORE membership issue. As long as no more of the Mid-Con schools depart prior to 2014, Summit is good. Lose one more need UTPA or Chicago St. in (or Denver/ New Orleans), Eastern Illinois would be an attractive target also.

**JACKGUYII** · 07-08-2009, 03:31 PM

Re: Centenary Leaving the League!!!

As stated there is no core membership issue at this time and by the time there potentially is we will have had other schools that are core members. I think UND is a lock regardless.

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Centenary Leaving the League!!!

Centenary Leaving the League!!!

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