Boo Summit League

[zooropa]

Re: Boo Summit League

But to say that their is such a wide gap between programs is ridiculous.

Right. There's not a WIDE gap between NDSU's 177+ WBB Sagarin rating & SDSU's top 20 rating. It's mere piffle, just so much cottonwood fluff floating on the breeze.

the "being first" advantage goes away and then it's just program vs program.

Who said that SDSU's advantage in WBB comes from being 'first'? Where did I EVER say that? Where did ANYONE say that?

SDSU is now on top but that doesn't mean it will remain that way forever. You just need to enjoy the success while it is here because as soon as it's taken for granted

Again, who said that any of this is going to last 'forever'?

You're creating straw-men.

The reality is that SDSU's program is significantly better than other programs in the Dakotas. Significantly. If the 150 spot difference between SDSU & NDSU (to say nothing of where USD would've been had they played a full D-1 schedule) doesn't convince you, nothing will.

As long as the status quo in Brookings remains, there is every reason to believe that the results on the court will be what they have been. That's not being arrogant, that's being realistic. People that root for the Jacks have to be careful that they don't overrate the Jacks. People on the outside need to be careful that they understand just how good the Jacks are. Again, I refer you to the ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY place difference between SDSU & NDSU in the final Sagarin rankings.

during the 70's and 80's USD was regularly beating SDSU and making the playoffs and an occassional major run at a national title. Something SDSU never really did.

Thanks for the history lesson. Of course, if D-2 glory meant all that, the 'Yotes'd still be D-2, now wouldn't they?

You will have your share of successes but you are also going to have to accept that USD will also have their fair share of theirs.

Again with the straw men.

Did I ever say that USD was going to stink?

Of course not.

I have consistently pointed out, as I will point out again, that in a very narrowly drawn area (women's basketball), SDSU at present, cannot be compared to ANY OTHER SCHOOL IN THE DAKOTAS.

Need I, once more, remind you of the difference in Sagarin ratings?

Because, I feel that it will be my lot in life to be the bucket of cold-water on these overheated discussions about 'catching' SDSU.

Heck, already some sources at NDSU have asserted that their last two recruiting classes have been 'better' than SDSU's.....

Folks, let's have some perspective.

Before SDSU, it was common to think that you couldn't win with local talent.

Now, it seems common to believe, 'well, if SDSU's doing it, it can't be that hard' (please see Zim's comments about whether a good D-2 program could shellac TCU the way SDSU did).

Sorry. Both positions are simplemindedly obtuse.

[boxerboy]

Re: Boo Summit League

I'm not being high and mighty, I'm being realistic.

I cannot conceive of a way to emphasize to you the gap that exists between SDSU & USD when it comes to the quality of their programs, their coaching staffs, etc.

If you believe that scaring North Carolina in a throw-away game will draw away the kind of players that THRIVE in AJ's system................. Shoot. Go look at what SDSU did during year one of their transition. Their FIRST D-1 game was against Rutgers--and they lost by 12, their second game was against Kentucky and they beat them. They beat a ranked team in their second year in D-1, and they went to the WNIT in their third.

AJ & Melum didn't cast their net wide BEFORE this year, and going forward they'll cast it even more narrowly. The kind of players that they target are players that they will either land or lose to a BETTER school.

It's not as though SDSU & USD are even remotely comparable in what they've done, where they've been. SDSU and USD are NOT peers when it comes to WBB. SDSU has an ascendancy that USD cannot take away.

I am and will continue to be a vocal supporter of SDSU athletics. However I think you might want to back off the blue and yellow Kool Aid just a bit. SDSU and USD will be peers in 5 years. For one to say that "SDSU has an ascendancy that USD cannot take away" is the height of arrogance.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Boo Summit League

I suppose it was also a fluke that USD football played UNI as close or even better than what SDSU did at the UNI Dome. It was also probably a fluke that USD Womens basketball just came off a national runner up finish 2 years ago. SDSU is ahead in the transition, they have some built in advantages. But to say that their is such a wide gap between programs is ridiculous. Most likely USD Mens basketball is about on the same level as SDSU already. In football SDSU is a bit ahead in scholarship maturity but USD isn't as far behind as you would like to think.

SDSU will have an advantage for awhile and a natural one but every year that both teams are competing on the same level than the "being first" advantage goes away and then it's just program vs program.

Most of you believe nothing can touch SDSU womens basketball but I invite you to look at history a bit. A bit over a decade ago SDSU was losing to NDSU and UND by 30 a game. What Bison or Sioux fan would have ever thought those tables would have been turned. A.J. is just one big opening away from turning the program over to someone else. Not that it's necessarily going to happen but it certainly could and has almost occurred as little as a couple of years ago. USD Womens basketball was a complete mess a little over a decade ago. I would actually count down each possession and said to myself in my mind that if they didn't get a shot off by 10 seconds on the shot clock that they would turn it over first. I was right a good number of times with that. USD used to challenge Morningside for the bottom spot for a few years. USD couldn't hang within 40 of the ND teams. It was embarrassing. Now USD is on very even terms with UND and probably NDSU. SDSU is now on top but that doesn't mean it will remain that way forever. You just need to enjoy the success while it is here because as soon as it's taken for granted is when it will be gone in no time, at least the era of dominance will be.

The thing about the USD SDSU rivalry is that it ebbs and flows. SDSU usually has the advantage in the overall AD but in the big sports it tends to fluctuate. As much as you would like to see it go your way you will not dominate USD in all 3 of the big sports. USD went through one of their worst times in their football program ever in the 90's and early 00's. USD football has definately risen under Meierkort and during the 70's and 80's USD was regularly beating SDSU and making the playoffs and an occassional major run at a national title. Something SDSU never really did.

You will have your share of successes but you are also going to have to accept that USD will also have their fair share of theirs.

Coyote Fan,

I quit reading your post about a third of the way through. But two things:

1) Why do you try to win a fighting match on here? Even if you are right you're not going to win. I'm just curious. Do you just love to watch yourself type?

and 2) AJ has gotten big opening offers. He's just turned them down.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Boo Summit League

There are two different arguments going on

1. SDSU's current women's program is the best in the Dakota's

2. Past results don't predict future performance, especially looking 5 or more years down the road.

Both sides have tacitly acknowledged the other's point, but can't stop posting.

Gotta love the internet.

[SDSUAlum08]

Re: Boo Summit League

There are two different arguments going on

1. SDSU's current women's program is the best in the Dakota's

2. Past results don't predict future performance, especially looking 5 or more years down the road.

Both sides have tacitly acknowledged the other's point, but can't stop posting.

Gotta love the internet.

Love it!

It's just a spinning carousel!

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Boo Summit League

What this means to me is that SDSU will just strive to get the best athlete in the area by maintaining strong programs and making it the most desired Univ in the area to attend. Womens basketball has that foundation and the football team is getting there. Up grading the football stadium would go a long way to help achieve that goal. But over all putting a conference champion contender and National tournament contender on the field, court, track, pool, every year will just make it that must harder for the U to get those athletes.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Boo Summit League

There are two different arguments going on

1. SDSU's current women's program is the best in the Dakota's

2. Past results don't predict future performance, especially looking 5 or more years down the road.

Both sides have tacitly acknowledged the other's point, but can't stop posting.

Gotta love the internet.

This is a revelation, First Row? If the Internet had been around in 1776 they'd still be writing the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson must be twittering in his grave...

[Kemo]

Re: Boo Summit League

USD Womens basketball was a complete mess a little over a decade ago. I would actually count down each possession and said to myself in my mind that if they didn't get a shot off by 10 seconds on the shot clock that they would turn it over first. I was right a good number of times with that. USD used to challenge Morningside for the bottom spot for a few years.

The Morningside women's basketball team just capped off an undefeated National Championship season and has won several NAIA national championships since the turn of the century. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that.

[zooropa]

Re: Boo Summit League

"SDSU has an ascendancy that USD cannot take away" is the height of arrogance.

Huh? Unless USD hires AJ & Melum, they can't take away what SDSU has going for it.

AJ can leave, Melum can leave, the NCAA can change rules, all that can affect what SDSU does.

However, none of that will be instigated by USD, therefore I say that USD can't 'take away' what SDSU has. It's SDSU's to keep or lose at this point.

And, to clarify for the nth time, I'm speaking of WBB here, not sports in general, and while SDSU & NDSU are presently 'peers' in that they both field D-1 teams in the same conference, only a fool would assert that they are peers in any meaningful sense in WBB.

Again, there was a 159 place difference between SDSU & NDSU in WBB in the final Sagarin ratings.

That's a significant gap.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Boo Summit League

Huh? Unless USD hires AJ & Melum, they can't take away what SDSU has going for it.

AJ can leave, Melum can leave, the NCAA can change rules, all that can affect what SDSU does.

However, none of that will be instigated by USD, therefore I say that USD can't 'take away' what SDSU has. It's SDSU's to keep or lose at this point.

And, to clarify for the nth time, I'm speaking of WBB here, not sports in general, and while SDSU & NDSU are presently 'peers' in that they both field D-1 teams in the same conference, only a fool would assert that they are peers in any meaningful sense in WBB.

Again, there was a 159 place difference between SDSU & NDSU in WBB in the final Sagarin ratings.

That's a significant gap.

All I'm going to say is this: UT lost in the first round this year. Anything can happen. Enjoy it while you have it, because you won't always have it. Not one program in the history of college sports hasn't slipped at one point in time.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Boo Summit League

Huh? Unless USD hires AJ & Melum, they can't take away what SDSU has going for it.

AJ can leave, Melum can leave, the NCAA can change rules, all that can affect what SDSU does.

However, none of that will be instigated by USD, therefore I say that USD can't 'take away' what SDSU has. It's SDSU's to keep or lose at this point.

And, to clarify for the nth time, I'm speaking of WBB here, not sports in general, and while SDSU & NDSU are presently 'peers' in that they both field D-1 teams in the same conference, only a fool would assert that they are peers in any meaningful sense in WBB.

Again, there was a 159 place difference between SDSU & NDSU in WBB in the final Sagarin ratings.

That's a significant gap.

Unfortunately, the Summit League, other than SDSU and Oakland, have a LONG ways to get above middling. USD, if they can regain the form of the 2008 D-II runner up, is in a position to be a solid mid-major contender, ala SDSU or Florida Gulf Coast. Both SDSU, and FGCU have shown how to get the games, play anybody anywhere during transition, and build a successful program. I would LOVE to see another 3 Summit teams get into and hold onto a top 75 program, so that conference games are valued rather than discounted by the NCAA. I think that the 4 Dakota schools, if they bring their D-II success, turn the Summit into another A-10 or CAA which is getting 2-3 teams into the NCAA's rather than a 5th BCS conference team.

USD is a GOOD addition to the Summit, and so would the UND NOT SIOUX. This situation of the 4 Dakota schools coming to anchor the Summit is a better outcome than if the NCC had moved up together.

[zooropa]

Re: Boo Summit League

Not one program in the history of college sports hasn't slipped at one point in time.

Right. 'Slipped up', to be differentiated from, 'was out-recruited by,'

Remember when, after losing by 'only' 16 to SDSU at Frost, some NDSU fans (and even a few of the players) started to think, "hey, we may have narrowed the gap"?

What was the score of the rematch up in Fargo?

Then there was ORU -only- losing to SDSU by 9 in the final regular season game. What was the score of the rematch in Sioux Falls five days later?

---

The problem, for the other Dakota schools, is that AJ has made it look easy....

Frankly, if SDSU were doing this with recruits from the coasts, people would have no difficulty acknowledging the superiority of the program.

But because SDSU is doing it with local talent, it seems that people have a danged hard time grasping that what is going on there will not be happening any time soon in Fargo, Vermillion, or (-rolling my eyes here-) Grand Forks.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Boo Summit League

Right. 'Slipped up', to be differentiated from, 'was out-recruited by,'

Remember when, after losing by 'only' 16 to SDSU at Frost, some NDSU fans (and even a few of the players) started to think, "hey, we may have narrowed the gap"?

What was the score of the rematch up in Fargo?

Then there was ORU -only- losing to SDSU by 9 in the final regular season game. What was the score of the rematch in Sioux Falls five days later?

---

The problem, for the other Dakota schools, is that AJ has made it look easy....

Frankly, if SDSU were doing this with recruits from the coasts, people would have no difficulty acknowledging the superiority of the program.

But because SDSU is doing it with local talent, it seems that people have a danged hard time grasping that what is going on there will not be happening any time soon in Fargo, Vermillion, or (-rolling my eyes here-) Grand Forks.

Enjoy it while it lasts. Cause it will get significantly harder in 5-10 years. Will SDSU still be the premiere team? Probably. Will they still get 4 of the top 5 girls every year in SD? Doubt it.

[zooropa]

Re: Boo Summit League

Cause it will get significantly harder in 5-10 years.

Fifteen roster spots. Four classes + 1 redshirt = an average of 4 recruits per year.

Four recruits from SD, ND, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska.

I think AJ will manage.

Seriously, stop and think about AJ's coaching style: what is the only thing other schools will have to offer? "More playing time"

And a student that bites on that was probably not going to get an offer from AJ anyway.

[90Jackrabbit]

Re: Boo Summit League

I suppose it was also a fluke that USD football played UNI as close or even better than what SDSU did at the UNI Dome. It was also probably a fluke that USD Womens basketball just came off a national runner up finish 2 years ago. SDSU is ahead in the transition, they have some built in advantages. But to say that their is such a wide gap between programs is ridiculous. Most likely USD Mens basketball is about on the same level as SDSU already. In football SDSU is a bit ahead in scholarship maturity but USD isn't as far behind as you would like to think.

2008-2009 wins against NCAA Division I schools in Football, Men's Basketball, and Women's Basketball: SDSU 49-USD 3