Will Summit split into a North and South?

[TeaJackrabbit]

With USD a unanimous vote it tells me that when UND figures their mess out they'll be in as well. That would give the Summit 12 teams come 2011.

Would you like to see it split into a North-South conference? It would make travel and expenses much more tolerable for the majority of the schools in the conference. The Dakota schools for example would play their North division foes twice and the south teams just once, meaning they would have to make the Centenary/ORU trip just once every two years.

But what would the divisions look like?

Obviously SDSU, NDSU, USD and UND would be in the same division. Oakland, WIU, IUPUI and IUPFW should also be in the same division. That leaves the 4 schools, three of which are far away for the 8 Dakota and Heartland schools.

The Dakota and UMKC schools get SUU, which stinks b/c they have to go all that way to play just one school. In return, the Heartland schools get ORU and Centenary. At least you get to play two games in one trip for that.

North:
SDSU
NDSU
USD
UND
UMKC
SUU

South:
WIU
IUPUI
IUPFW
Oakland
ORU
Centenary

[filbert]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

It's not all that terribly easy to get from Shreveport to Tulsa either, in fact. And the trip from Macomb to Indianapolis has its moments, too. Those two come pretty close to balancing out the hassle factor for the Kansas City-Cedar City haul, IMHO.

I think your scenario is pretty close to the best of all possible outcomes for the Summit League as currently constituted.

[zooropa]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

Except I'd call it East & West.

[Kemo]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

If the Summit League adds UND and wants to split the 12 team conference into divisions, this is what I figure they'd look like:


The Summit League: East and West Divisions


The Summit League: North and South Divisions


Thoughts: East and West makes the most sense as far as spreading out the travel, as if there was a North and South Division, the South would have a huge disadvantage in Travel...

Southern Utah and Centenary really mess up the North/South Idea, and ORU doesn't really help, but it is manageable.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

If the Summit League adds UND and wants to split the 12 team conference into divisions, this is what I figure they'd look like:


The Summit League: East and West Divisions


The Summit League: North and South Divisions


Thoughts: East and West makes the most sense as far as spreading out the travel, as if there was a North and South Division, the South would have a huge disadvantage in Travel...

Southern Utah and Centenary really mess up the North/South Idea, and ORU doesn't really help, but it is manageable.

Excellent visual analysis. Agree that East/West makes most sense.
A 16-game conference schedule would be perfect, with an east-west champ crowned, and tournaments in which all 12 are eligible.
Rep points on the mapping.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

It would be interesting to know who the other 5 or so schools that applied are (assuming one of the 6 Douple talked about was UND). Depending on location and profile of those schools and with no apprehension on moving quickly, I don't think I would be waiting around if I was UND.

[Kemo]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

It would be interesting to know who the other 5 or so schools that applied are (assuming one of the 6 Douple talked about was UND). Depending on location and profile of those schools and with no apprehension on moving quickly, I don't think I would be waiting around if I was UND.

Sounds like out of the 6, the assumed potential candidates that would make sense besides UND are either Utah Valley State or Chicago State. Utah Valley would be fine as long as SUU stays committed to the Summit League (which it appears they are with their president being the head of the conference's presidents committee) and Chicago State is geographically fine, though they haven't some issues with their athletic programs in the recent past.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

Thanks for the visual. As stated earlier, I think the East-West is the best based on fairness.

As for the 6 teams that applied, I imagine four are Chicago State, Utah Valley, USD, UND and possibly UT-Pan American and Houston Baptist. Possibly SE Missouri and/or E. Illinois out of the Ohio Valley?

I think the league is fine if and when UND is let in. Georgraphically it could be better. SUU, ORU and Cent kind of screw that up, but it could be worse. If you were to replace those three w/ say Chi State, Eastern Ill and SE Missouri it would be much more geographically friendly.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

I think Southern Utah is just happy to have a conference.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

Would Eastern IL be a possibility with the agreement they just signed? I don't know the terms but I think SDSU had to commit to so many years or pay a penalty. I am guessing that they would have also. Of course if the Summit really wanted to add them they could waive the entrance fee to make it possible.

EDIT: OOPS, I was thinking of SIU-E and mixed them up with Eastern IL

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

If the Summit League adds UND and wants to split the 12 team conference into divisions, this is what I figure they'd look like:


The Summit League: East and West Divisions


The Summit League: North and South Divisions

If you drop UND and put in Utah Valley, the East/West pairs up pretty good. USD & UMKC are about as far apart as are SDSU & NDSU, and then the two Utah schools together.

ORU & Cent; WIU & IUPUI; IPFW & Oakland.

[TeaJackrabbit]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

Road trips for SDSU if the East-West happens:

Bus trips:
USD - 2 hours (every year)
NDSU - 3 hours (every year)
UND - 4 hours (every year)
UMKC - 6 hours (every year)
SUU - plane trip (every year)
You could also bus to UMKC and then fly to SUU.

Combined trips to Western Conference opponents by plane:
ORU and Centenary (every other year)
WIU and UIPUI (every other year)
IUPFW and Oakland (every other year)

So, for example, in conference road play play (8 games), SDSU would get 4 decent bus trips and have just two flights every year. Not bad.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

No doubt UND would be better for SDSU, NDSU & USD in regards to travel time & expenses. Will that be enough for the other schools to vote for UND over some of the other schools that may have applied? I don't know, but the other schools will also be looking and comparing their costs also. Maybe UND works out the best for everyone, maybe not.

Personally, my only reservation on USD before, and UND in the future, was how it would affect those schools that are key to holding on to the AQ status. That is everything because without the AQ for men's BB, rightly or wrongly, you are in an independent scheduling affiliation no matter what you call it.

Adding USD & UND really puts the Summit firmly in place as a Midwest or Northern Plains conference. I don't think that is so bad, but right now we need the three southern schools for the AQ. If there are concerns that any of those schools that may be looking at moving on, it needs to be addressed.

[NightHawk78]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

If the Summit adds a 12th team, a split and a 16-game conference schedule is virtually certain with the details depending on which school is added (and I feel that UND is far from being a certainty).

If the Summit stays at 11 teams, I see a 16-game schedule with 6 home-and-homes and 4 one-way games. Each school likely would have two schools as "rival" schools with a home-and-home every year.

The advantages of a 16-game schedule are that it is much easier to have the entire conference schedule after the holidays instead of the current setup where one weekend of conference games is played in early December and there are more non-conference games in the schedule.

[zooropa]

Re: Will Summit split into a North and South?

right now we need the three southern schools for the AQ.

1) I don't think Oral Roberts (no football) has anywhere else to go. I don't think the MVC wants them, regardless of what the Wichita State AD says. There are no conferences above the Summit that would accept a non-football member with Oral Roberts' good but not outstanding baseball & basketball programs.

2) Here's my take on the AQ:

The NCAA has the ability to grant a waiver if the number of 'counter' schools drops below their threshold.

There is, IMO, an exceedingly strong case for granting that waiver--one I also posted over on Bisonville

                    2007-08   2008-09
Baseball              NA        --
Softball              NA      NDSU(?)
Women's Basketball    NA       SDSU
Men's Basketball      NA       NDSU
Volleyball           SDSU      NDSU
Women's Soccer        NA       SDSU

Those six sports along with men's soccer are the team sports for which the Summit carries AQ status. The fact that SDSU & NDSU have nabbed every spot (assuming NDSU wins the conference softball tournament) they've been eligible for except (likely) baseball goes a long way to arguing for a waiver on AQ status.

Therefore, while I wouldn't want to say "AQ doesn't matter," I do think that its importance could be over emphasized.

(Also, isn't there currently an NCAA imposed ban on conference hopping?)