USD is in.

[yoteforever]

Re: USD is in.

What was the reason why NDSU and SDSU were invited? Give me a break. USD is a great addition to the Summit, and is a no different addition than SDSU was a few years back.

rcjacks, that is a great post. My blog board buddy (JackMd) doesn't think so, but I do. Remove your bias and explain to me why it isn't a good move for either school?

SDSU renews a rivalry that is a 2 hour car trip. The Summit League doesn't have a rivalry, that was very well documented and highlighted during their visit. They desperately need a rivalry, so other schools can witness what one is like and maybe take on their own.

JackMd and many others continue with this ongoing posting of we were first. And I will say it again, yes you were. Congrats. But there were others in D-I in this league that were before you, and others before them, and I think you get my point.

If you can honestly say that a "healthy" rivalry isn't good for the state of South Dakota, then you don't know or understand sports. Just think of how much fun you'll have "smacking" us if you win. But I honestly think what you fear is when we join that we may beat you (did you hear that, that may happen). And if we do, I'm sure our fans will smack.

THAT'S WHAT A RIVALRY DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only does it renew interest from fans that maybe don't care any other time, it also is a financial "boon doggle" for both schools. Look at Iowa/Iowa State for example. Those programs charge more than double for a football than they do over other regular games. CAS holds 15,000 (?) and can you imagine by the time you took students out of the equation, and sold 10,000 tickets for $35 or so, that would be $350,000 for your coffers. That makes business sense.

Congrats to you for going D-I first. But many of you make it sound like it was a unanimous decision, when in reality, many of you compalined about the move. Now, on the business side of it, does anyone know for sure if they have been able to afford it from ticket sales and other income generating areas in ahtletics, or have they received help and taken money from other areas so they could shore up athletics?

[LakeJack]

Re: USD is in.

rcjacks, that is a great post. My blog board buddy (JackMd) doesn't think so, but I do. Remove your bias and explain to me why it isn't a good move for either school?

SDSU renews a rivalry that is a 2 hour car trip. The Summit League doesn't have a rivalry, that was very well documented and highlighted during their visit. They desperately need a rivalry, so other schools can witness what one is like and maybe take on their own.

JackMd and many others continue with this ongoing posting of we were first. And I will say it again, yes you were. Congrats. But there were others in D-I in this league that were before you, and others before them, and I think you get my point.

If you can honestly say that a "healthy" rivalry isn't good for the state of South Dakota, then you don't know or understand sports. Just think of how much fun you'll have "smacking" us if you win. But I honestly think what you fear is when we join that we may beat you (did you hear that, that may happen). And if we do, I'm sure our fans will smack.

THAT'S WHAT A RIVALRY DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only does it renew interest from fans that maybe don't care any other time, it also is a financial "boon doggle" for both schools. Look at Iowa/Iowa State for example. Those programs charge more than double for a football than they do over other regular games. CAS holds 15,000 (?) and can you imagine by the time you took students out of the equation, and sold 10,000 tickets for $35 or so, that would be $350,000 for your coffers. That makes business sense.

Congrats to you for going D-I first. But many of you make it sound like it was a unanimous decision, when in reality, many of you compalined about the move. Now, on the business side of it, does anyone know for sure if they have been able to afford it from ticket sales and other income generating areas in ahtletics, or have they received help and taken money from other areas so they could shore up athletics?

I think you are the one missing the point. Going 1st is not about a point in time, it is about who had vision and who didn’t. The key is that UNC, NDSU and SDSU all chose to move up to D-I, we all wanted to move up. We planned to move up. We did it and we have been successful.

USD chose to stay D-II; they wanted to remain D-II. Remember the Harvard of the Prairie comments? USD was forced to move up when the NCC dissolved.

The move up has been very good for SDSU and so our choice has been vindicated. So much so that USD now has to admit that they were wrong about their desire to stay D-II.

Basically our leadership was right and yours was wrong. If SDSU had not been successful you bet your fans would be over here saying “We told you so”. But that didn’t happen so now you are going to have to live with the fact that you are a supporter of Me too U.

You can try and spin this anyway you want but that is what happened and your move up to D-I and into the Summit League only serves to prove our point.

Congrats on seeing the light and welcome to the Summit League USD

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: USD is in.

or have they received help and taken money from other areas so they could shore up athletics?

The Athletic Department was given/loaned (I don't remember which) money that came from the bookstore profits, if I remember correctly. If my memory serves, the additional funds were generated from sales of licensed materials (stuff with logos). The increase in profits from this area, according to the bookstore, was due primarily to a large increase in sales of items with the Jackrabbit logo on it. I think most people would agree that the vast majority of these types of sales are primarily generated because of the athletic department. In fact, for most institutions across the nation, the athletic department has complete control over their logo, sales of merchandise and keeps all funds generated by this.

Several people have told me that they view this as the same as USD's Title IX waiver from the BoR, and funding wise, they may be correct. Both were done to provide dollars to help in the transition. But look at the differences, SDSU was given access to funds that the entire athletic department generated. USD was allowed to divert funds to one men's sport at the short term detriment of women's sports. I am much more comfortable with the former than the latter.

[EQguy]

Re: USD is in.

It appears to me that many on here don't know there is a "cup" that is kept with the winner of the USD/SDSU football game. I remember holding it after the last victory down in the dome but I can't remember what it was. It was metal and had scores engraved in it and I seem to remember it was a little beat up.

[jackmd]

Re: USD is in.

When we went DI we did so without any regard to the loss of the "precious rivalry" with USD. During these first few years at the DI level I believe we have done well. Expanding our schedule to include programs in premier conferences at the DI level is an integral part of that success. Now, people are talking about how great it is that we can play USD again lets get all excited, hallelujah, things are sure looking up for the Jackrabbits!

I didn't give a damn about the Coyotes or playing them again when we left them behind at the DII level and I don't see why I should give a damn now that they are in the process of becoming a DI program. My focus is, has been, and always will focused on continuing to advance our programs at the DI level. Changing schedules already filled with established DI programs for an unproven transitional DI program doesn't fit well with my vision as a staunch supporter and booster of SDSU.

Had things been different during the final years at the DII level I'm sure my opinion on this topic would be different. However, it is what it is. So, consider me a lunatic or a jerk or whatever you want. I don't think USD is relevant to SDSU as it pertains to the here and now. Part of that changes when we see them on our schedule in Summit league sports in 2011.

[AugieJackFan]

Re: USD is in.

On behalf of Augustana we promise not to eat the Twinkie.

I don't like the "cup" idea or it being won by "comprehensive performance". If we are going to have a traveling trophy lets make it be a Twinky since it will outlast the rivalry and probably the Earth itself. And the Twinky goes to winner of the men's basketball series... and if for some reason we split the series, the Twinky goes to Augustana (for nesalgic purposes) for a year... as long as they promise not to eat it.

[Kemo]

Re: USD is in.

On behalf of Augustana we promise not to eat the Twinkie.

All is takes is one Augie fan walking by the trophy case who skipped breakfast

[JimmyJack]

Re: USD is in.

Add me to the list of fans who are happy with this development. In my opinion, it's time to move past the frustrations of several years ago and think about the future. As an educator, I don't really understand the notion of hoping that student athletes at USD have a sub-par experience. Many of those young people are South Dakota kids, and they deserve a good experience just like SDSU student athletes do. Fans are fans. They'll say what they will. But South Dakota is a small state. Most of us know somebody who's son or daughter is attending the other institution. SDSU and USD have a lot more in common with each other than they do with the Northerns and Dakota States of the world. And in a resource-poor state like South Dakota, the ugliness simply stands in the way of progress. President Chicoine and President Abbott both understand that the two universities need to be allies in many instances and friendly rivals in others.

Frankly, I'm just plain sick and tired of the ugliness and back-and-forth and endless grudges. What a waste of time and energy. I'm looking forward to the rivalry being renewed. I hope that the Summit League's efforts to eliminate ugly fan behavior are successful in making these games good family entertainment, with hard fought action and fans rooting FOR their teams, not against the other.

I would add that every SDSU coach I have talked to has been very much in favor of this addition. If they're up for it, how come so many SDSU and USD fans can't move on?

[jackmd]

Re: USD is in.

I would add that every SDSU coach I have talked to has been very much in favor of this addition. If they're up for it, how come so many SDSU and USD fans can't move on?

I would argue that its less about moving on and more about being excited about what we have accomplished at the DI level and not clinging to some expectation about a renewed rivalry. I think its an insult to those who spearheaded the move in the face of the direct opposition coming from USD to now say we can't wait to welcome them onto the same court as us. Its just another game against another DI team once they are DI.

If the level of competition on the floor matches the level of emotion in the stands it will become a great rivalry again. Do I expect that to happen? I don't know. It looks like USD is poised to field competitive teams at this level. It looks like we are improving in areas we need to and continuing to excel in other areas, we need to do that. Shifting the focus to renewing the rivalry could jeopardize the much more important final goal for both universities, fielding competitive teams in all sports year in and year out at the highest level.

I'll be cheering for SDSU regardless of who we play, when or where we play them. I think its insulting to waste all this time hoping for a great rivalry to be born when we have so many other accomplishments and other challenges to focus on.

[jackmd]

Re: USD is in.

From the P & D yesterday.

http://yankton.net/articles/2009/04/...9402679095.txt

One audience member questioned making the budget cuts amidst USD’s move to NCAA Division I for athletics. The audience member noted the previous day’s announcement that USD would be joining the Summit League.

“If our focus is on academics, and we cut them, but we put dollars into athletics, doesn’t that defeat our primary purpose?” the person asked.

Abbott said the athletic department has responded to the challenge of raising more money for scholarships. As a result, USD has gained nearly 200 additional student-athletes, both male and female, “and that’s not the worst thing,” he said.

Despite the continuing objections by many people, USD was left with little choice about the D-I move once the North Central Conference folded and few NCAA Division II options remained, Abbott said.

And the D-I move is also about perception, he said.

After South Dakota State University went Division I in 2004, the Brookings school received daily media coverage about the move, Abbott said.

In turn, Abbott worried that USD’s decision to remain in D-II at the time may have led the public to think it was not as strong a university as its Brookings counterpart.

The D-I move has already resulted in more USD applications from high school boys, Abbott said. USD has also enjoyed a shot of national prestige, he said.

“You are known by the company you keep and who you associate with,” he said. “I believe (D-I) was the right move. I just can’t prove it.”

[filbert]

Re: USD is in.

Abbott: “I believe (D-I) was the right move. I just can’t prove it.”

Wow. Just wow.

I seem to recall from my misspent MBA training that documenting the benefits of a proposed action was pretty much job #1 of proposal writing.

Hey, Abbott, how about something like "yes, there are risks in this move, but the benefits to the university in the long term far outweigh those risks."

I'm available as a consultant, Pres. Abbott, but it'll cost you.

[jackmd]

Re: USD is in.

I'm glad to hear him admit what we've all been saying here. They felt they had no choice but to move up. Let me say it more plainly, they didn't want to move up, the success we were having forced them to. SDSU was garnering all the attention while DII was settling into a more NAIA like organization. USD was in no better position to make the move to DI last year than they were 5 years ago.

I think Abbott is even admitting that they aren't sure what they are doing right now. We have heard about trying to follow the model at UNI with respect to facilities but I have not yet seen a solid plan or time line.

Many think I'm hesitant to support all this excitement about renewing the rivalry because of hard feelings or sour grapes. I've got greater concerns than that. If we waste time trying to revert to what was we'll get left behind by programs that are moving forward. I don't want to see that happen. Onward and upward.

[yotefan90]

Re: USD is in.

I'm glad to hear him admit what we've all been saying here. They felt they had no choice but to move up. Let me say it more plainly, they didn't want to move up, the success we were having forced them to.

Was it more of your success, or the fact that UND was bailing and the conference was going down that was the impetus for the move?

I'm not saying.......just asking.

[Nidaros]

Re: USD is in.

Was it more of your success, or the fact that UND was bailing and the conference was going down that was the impetus for the move?

I'm not saying.......just asking.

Oh you can throw the UND angle in there if you like, but isnt USD always worried about what is happening in Brookings? I not saying I am just asking.

[yotefan90]

Re: USD is in.

I guess worried isn't the word I would use. Do I watch with interest what you have done in the past 5 years? Sure I do.....I also watched before as well. I also keep an eye on NDSU, UND, UNC, etc. But yes, I watch SDSU closer than others. I like to see all SD schools do well.