Summit League to Visit USD

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I don't know anymore. The more I read the more it sounds like it works too well for everythingto fall in place by the tournament. The BSC didn't do a site visit but requested info from SDSU, NDSU & UNC if I remember correctly. Several ADs and sports writers in conference cities believed that if anyone was not going to be invited it would be UNC. Guess who the Presidents invited?

Also, didn't this seem to come together very fast? I may be wrong but I thought there was a lot more time from when the site visit was announced until it happened and every day was needed. Lots of meetings are great, but if you have had to rush your preparations it may not be so fun answering all those questions.

I guess I am trying to say that you never know what ten university presidents are going to agree to do.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I don't know anymore. The more I read the more it sounds like it works too well for everythingto fall in place by the tournament. The BSC didn't do a site visit but requested info from SDSU, NDSU & UNC if I remember correctly. Several ADs and sports writers in conference cities believed that if anyone was not going to be invited it would be UNC. Guess who the Presidents invited?

Also, didn't this seem to come together very fast? I may be wrong but I thought there was a lot more time from when the site visit was announced until it happened and every day was needed. Lots of meetings are great, but if you have had to rush your preparations it may not be so fun answering all those questions.

I guess I am trying to say that you never know what ten university presidents are going to agree to do.

I believe in the case of the Big Sky, Fullerton(BSC commish) visited UNC, SDSU & NDSU in the months leading up to the meeting where expansion was first seriously discussed. Also just before that meeting, the three schools were asked to send informational packets and I believe the three presidents were invited to plead their case. After that was done, and the three presidents excused, the BSC presidents discussed the matter and decided on a site visit to UNC only. After the site visit, the presidents met again and voted to admit UNC.

In the summer 2006 expansion of the Mid-Con, the order was the same except the info packets were solicited from NDSU, SDSU, IPFW, UVSC & UTPA. We all remember that the first three got the site visits and the eventual invites. As for the timeline, Chicago State announced they were leaving in April, Valpo in May, the site visits were announced in June, they occurred in August, and the schools joined around the first of September. Of course, that was a panic situation due to the unexpected loss of two members in such a short time. This one does feel different. Maybe the visit has been scheduled for a while but didn't leak out until now. Maybe the visit isn't as in-depth as the earlier ones. Maybe Douple feels they don't need as much time. Maybe something has happened behind the scenes to require a admission vote in March. We just don't have enough information to make a reliable guess. We probably won't until after the March meeting.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Thanks for correcting my memory.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think we're missing Douple's comments on Wed. about being proactive.

Our mindset, collectively, seems to be 'something's about to happen', heck, I figured as much before I heard Douple on Wed.

Rather, I think the Summit is being proactive on this one--they're acting to change the status quo, rather than having to react when the status quo abruptly changes on them.

Now, I think the intensive slate of meetings over Jan 20-21 is to address every possible contingency in order to vote up or down during the tourney.

That doesn't mean that USD will begin play in the Summit this fall, or even next fall. I think TV nailed this one square on the head when he said that USD will be invited to join after fulfilling their commitment to the Great West--probably contingent on certain staffing and scheduling commitments.

Such a lead-in gives USD something to rally donors around over the next couple years.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Guess who the Presidents invited?

They voted for the cheapest option. UNC has not raised the prestige of the Big Sky at all.

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

They voted for the cheapest option. UNC has not raised the prestige of the Big Sky at all.

Well UNC is in big trouble, they are funded pathetically and if you think its hard to recruit a kid to Brookings try to recruit a kid to Greeley.... I wouldn't be surprised if they drop football and are looking at the Summit in the next 5-8 years (would work out great if they could get DU, and Utah Valley whatever)...... Big Sky teams are out funding them heavily and the lack of success is killing there fundraising, the state could care less because they care more about CU and CSU, the state is big but when you have 3 big shots in football, and basketball (Air Force, CU, and CSU) and 2 big shots in hockey (DU, and CC) you loose out on the market as well....

I do think DU is on the up though, they have a new coach, are starting to recruit Colorado really heavily, they beat CSU this year, there a lot like the Jacks, a young team that struggles at times but you can tell they are a lot better then they where a couple of years ago...

I think USD and UND both have things to offer the conference but I again am hesitant of them being voted in.... I would hope that the conference atleast talks to a DU because they are already established and are in a media market, have name recognition (even if it is for hockey)... FSN Rockey Mountain broadcast a fair amount of there mens and womens games....

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Well UNC is in big trouble, they are funded pathetically and if you think its hard to recruit a kid to Brookings try to recruit a kid to Greeley....

I got lost in Greeley once (while I was trying to stay on US 34)--the conclusion I reached was that Greeley is populated by people that couldn't find their way out of Greeley.

Also, if Hammersmith's info is correct UV was passed up once before, and I would seriously question whether DU would want any part of a conference that also had a school so recently only the biggest junior college in Utah.

Lastly, I'm in favor of USD & DU. USD for scheduling convenience and because it is a respectable school academically. USD is a Carnegie Research institution, and while I have my doubts about its status vs. SDSU outside the professional programs (med, law, and business), the Sanford investment is going to raise the profile of the USD med school, and the business school stacks up pretty well. Law I don't know much about.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

If your going to add schools to the league, you are not trying to protect another league schools dominance in one sport for the betterment of the league. You want a school that has as many league sports as possible in order to push the other member schools to improve. Why get a school that only offers four or five sports while all the rest offer seven to eight, Wheres the competition in that. Unless its a one sport conference like the WCHA or CCHA, Western Wrestling Conf. it just doesnt make sense.

[JackJD]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think we're missing Douple's comments on Wed. about being proactive.

Our mindset, collectively, seems to be 'something's about to happen', heck, I figured as much before I heard Douple on Wed.

Rather, I think the Summit is being proactive on this one--they're acting to change the status quo, rather than having to react when the status quo abruptly changes on them.

Now, I think the intensive slate of meetings over Jan 20-21 is to address every possible contingency in order to vote up or down during the tourney.

That doesn't mean that USD will begin play in the Summit this fall, or even next fall. I think TV nailed this one square on the head when he said that USD will be invited to join after fulfilling their commitment to the Great West--probably contingent on certain staffing and scheduling commitments.

Such a lead-in gives USD something to rally donors around over the next couple years.

I think zooroopa is right. USD is not going to get an invite in the next year or two but this does provide a great lead-in opportunity for the Coyotes.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

If you read Mick's live blog, those participating were looking for an answer about admission and Mick mention like 2012 or 2013. It seems like the safe answer as its the end of the transition at USD. With UND, and I am being reduntant, the logo is part of the issue of admission. The UND folks need to act fast. I will say this about UND and Grand Forks. If you go there for just plain visiting, you find lots of people wearing green and UND apparell, maybe more than lots of people supporting Tom Daschle, and I believe that GF has a great fan base to offer. Victories over UND have never come easy and I really look forward to competition with them more so than USD. Dump the logo and move on. Going back to what Terry has mentioned both UND and USD have more to offer in terms of crowds, then say IPFWU.

I am amazed that the old Fort Wayne Piston, AKA now as the Detriot Pistons facility is the home where IPFWU plays bb. Its got to be grand place to visit. Some of the early NBA stars played on that floor, so you would think more than 700 would show up for SDSU, but they did not so, no point in fighting USD and UND admission. I say give them a chance. I don't think we will have any regrets.

I am trying to remember some of the old Piston stars, but remember Curt Gody and Linesay Nelson doing Saturday NBA games of the week from Fort Wayne. This goes back to black and white days of TV, OPPS enough digression.

[EQguy]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Maybe a dumb question here but what does attendance have to do with the quality of teams in a conference? It seems to me the goal of the conference (ie summit plan) is to raise the RPI of the teams to have a potential situation where its not just an autobid league. How does having 700 or 1200 or 2000 attendance per game impact that?

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think TV nailed this one square on the head when he said that USD will be invited to join after fulfilling their commitment to the Great West--probably contingent on certain staffing and scheduling commitments.

It's certainly possible that TV has nailed it, but I've got a different opinion on how it plays out. I have to say I would be surprised if the president's voted to invite USD in March, without knowing when UND is going to step up to the table, even on a "delayed" basis. I don't think there is anyway that they are going to go for an 11-team conference without having something happen (i.e., school announces they will leave, or UND gets tribe approval or drops nickname and logo) to open up a spot.

I view Tom Douple's remarks on being pro-active (and I had a good conversation with him when we were invited, and I know by being pro-active he means being out in front) as being in a position to be ready if an opening occurs.

So, do I think that USD will be in the Summit at some point...yes, if the chips fall as to allow it.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Maybe a dumb question here but what does attendance have to do with the quality of teams in a conference? It seems to me the goal of the conference (ie summit plan) is to raise the RPI of the teams to have a potential situation where its not just an autobid league. How does having 700 or 1200 or 2000 attendance per game impact that?

I am not sure, but I would think that overall attendence and averages do play a part in the ratings of conferences. Again I am speculating as I am hardly an expert and hate reading regulations even NCAA ones. Does the average attendence of say the Big East hurt in the RPI's as a conference when compared to the Summit? Does anyone argue that maybe the Big East has too many people attending their games? I would not think so. I would also think that if you are drawing 2500 or more as an average, you have pretty good product on the floor, and that likewise the RPI would also advance as the attendence rises. No direct relationship but indirectly I think there are connections. Again the other side, UIUPI had a great team last year, but did not draw good crowds, so these schools finances do not have to be ticket revenue driven to help them survive at the D1 level.

The other thing I think that makes UND and USD different is the fact that they are not commuting schools like UIPI, Oakland and UIFW. Right now they might be drawing better crowds, and I think the four Dakota schools competing again has to be a good thing for all four schools. Yeah the USD crazies are obnoxious but maybe they can learn some D1 fandom finesse and act like true fans.

I belive SturgisJeff mentioned when he attended the Oakland women's game, there were tons of people on campus, but none were headed to the bb game, but rather to class and other things going on. I have on few occasisons attended Tues games at UNO during the NCC days, and found the same experience. Parking was hard to come by, but the Sapp fieldhouse was empty. So it goes with commuting schools whether they are D2 or D1.

One other thing, that I have no knowledge of and that is how the any given conference office is supported financially? Does each member pay dues at a flat amount or does attendence come into play? The way commissioners like to talk about attendence when records are broken, you would think the office gets a small cut of the revenue.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Maybe a dumb question here but what does attendance have to do with the quality of teams in a conference? It seems to me the goal of the conference (ie summit plan) is to raise the RPI of the teams to have a potential situation where its not just an autobid league. How does having 700 or 1200 or 2000 attendance per game impact that?

It may not have much to do with quality of teams but as a student athlete would you rather play in front of 500 people or 2500? Also, if they can add two teams that draw well and would help two other schools in NDSU and SDSU draw better I suppose in a round-about way it helps strengthen the conference as well.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

It's certainly possible that TV has nailed it, but I've got a different opinion on how it plays out. I have to say I would be surprised if the president's voted to invite USD in March, without knowing when UND is going to step up to the table, even on a "delayed" basis. I don't think there is anyway that they are going to go for an 11-team conference without having something happen (i.e., school announces they will leave, or UND gets tribe approval or drops nickname and logo) to open up a spot.

Well, I think the 177 meetings are about discovering if USD is really committed to the D-1 thing, if they're aware of what the annual costs of a D-1 program will be, and if they have a sound program for meeting those expenses.

USD, recall, went D-1 basically at the drop of a hat. They didn't spend years on the issue like SDSU did.

----

However, if USD looks good, I totally think they'll get an invite in March, conditionally, for the 2011-2012 year. What TV said makes too much sense.

Recall, also, that by 2011 the UND mascot issue will be resolved one way or another. Assuming that they're in decent shape then, they can be invited on a shorter timeframe and end up in the Summit the same time as USD.

Finally, there may be things going on that we're not aware of. Here's a remark from 2003 @ a Florida Atlantic University press conference... Note what the Sun Belt commish volunteered about Denver:

Waters: "We saw some of that coming 18 months ago. I think we all knew once the ACC dominoes started, that sooner or later it would affect us. So 18 months ago, we expanded our situation out west with the idea that if...if realignment did impact us we would be able to take care of the western schools. If it didn't we would have enough western volume that we would be able to reduce some of the travel costs. Where we are now is that everyone thinks New Mexico State and Utah State will go to the WAC before this is all over with. University of Denver is an incredible institution. What they have done with the athletic department and the entire university, but we will certainly be loyal to the University of Denver, I'm not trying to kick them out the door, but we certainly understand that they may be happier somewhere else rather than getting on a plane and coming east all the time. What is happening ultimately nation wide will probably be better for every body. We are all going to have a better geographic fit. It will probably take some people a little while to figure out who is on first and what's on second. But, ultimately it will be better.

http://fausports.cstv.com/genrel/112103aaa.html

Frankly, you can say "we're not trying to kick them out the door", but you're not exactly encouraging them to stay when you bring them up, unprompted, at a press conference and suggest that they'd be happier elsewhere