Summit League to Visit USD

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I know that Centenary re-upped its commitment to the conference last summer but endowments are worth significantly less now than they were last summer, and the economic crap isn't done hitting the fan. No inside information from me, just a hunch.

Why is it always Centenary? Wouldn't they have dropped out during the 70s? The early 80s? The early 90s?

I mean if they were going to drop out due to economic problems, well, they've been there, done that.

Frankly, they run their athletic department on a shoestring, they're not aiming to be the league champs in anything, and they're a private school with a pretty steep tuition. I don't see them dropping out.

Rather, I think the SIU-E decision prompted the Summit to make a decision to get USD locked in as early as possible--and that the timing is a factor of announcing the invite at the Summit tournament in Sioux Falls.

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If USD was going by SDSU's timeline, they couldn't've expected a site visit this comprehensive for a year or so.

[90Jackrabbit]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Why is it always Centenary? Wouldn't they have dropped out during the 70s? The early 80s? The early 90s?

I mean if they were going to drop out due to economic problems, well, they've been there, done that.

Frankly, they run their athletic department on a shoestring, they're not aiming to be the league champs in anything, and they're a private school with a pretty steep tuition. I don't see them dropping out.

Rather, I think the SIU-E decision prompted the Summit to make a decision to get USD locked in as early as possible--and that the timing is a factor of announcing the invite at the Summit tournament in Sioux Falls.

---

If USD was going by SDSU's timeline, they couldn't've expected a site visit this comprehensive for a year or so.

Why Centenary, just going off the rumors that they were looking at DIII a couple of years ago. Who knows, if my hunch is correct maybe its Southern Utah to the Big Sky.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Why Centenary, just going off the rumors that they were looking at DIII a couple of years ago. Who knows, if my hunch is correct maybe its Southern Utah to the Big Sky.

I think they may have flirted with D-III, but I don't think they would've saved much money--maybe been able to cut some staff, that's about it... Heck if they cut scholarships from the athletic fund kids'd either drop out, or they'd have to raise more money for scholarships elsewhere.

The impression I get about Centenary is that it's, in its area, an 'Institution' with a capital I. It was established in 1825, for crying out loud. For them, I don't think fund raising is as much an issue as it is elsewhere.

SUU to the Big Sky is a different matter. Allegedly there's strong bias against them there.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

During a halftime interview at last week's NDSU/WIU MBB(?) game, Gene Taylor indicated that the decision to look at new schools was made by the membership committee(mostly presidents) back in October. I believe the decision as to exactly which schools are looked at and when is up to Douple.

Taylor's comments:(GT's kind of a stream of conciousness type speaker, so his comments don't parse out very well.)
Q: Are you in favor of expansion as an athletic director; is that something you think the league needs to take a further look at?

A: I really don't know, honestly. We've(athletic directors) been in the meetings and they have a committee that decides on expansion made up of presidents, and they brought it to us in October and said here's what we're going to do, and then once we make the visit we'll come back and decide the pros and cons of it. So, we really haven't had a chance to look at the positives and negatives, and I think we'll do that in March at our meeting down in Sioux Falls at the tournament, so I really haven't thought much through and I don't think eleven works - that's a little hard and there's some concerns with ADs with just eleven - but as Tom(Douple) said in the newspaper, this is just a visit. It's not going to be like when we got in; we visited and boom we're in. I think it's going to be very different this time. I'm not saying they're(USD/UND) not going to get in; I think we just have more time to talk about it.

Q: Do you feel like the league is stable right now in terms of all the schools in it? You don't feel like anybody's going to jump up and leave at any point, do you?

A: No, I really do.* Centenary - everybody always worries about that, but they've really infused a lot of money in their budgets and they're really making this Summit League Plan work. I think the presidents are committed
to the Summit Plan and I think everybody's behind it. So, I don't worry about anybody leaving; it's just whether 10 or 12 works for us.


*Bad sentence. From the context, he meant:
No, nobody's going to jump up and leave.
and
I really do feel the league is stable right now.

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Bad sentence.

Bad question, too. 'Do you think the league is stable? Do you think anyone is going to leave?'

How do you answer that two-fer with a single word?

[Hammersmith]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

As for my own comments...

Centenary did flirt with DIII a few years back. They went so far as to officially request information from the DIII membership committee. You also need to remember that Cent is still new to the Summit; this is only their sixth year in the league. They looked into DIII at the time they did, because their five-year commitment was about to expire and they were looking into other options. In the end, they unofficially recommitted to the Summit for at least another two years and pledged to significantly increase their athletic budgets in accordance with the Summit Plan. By all accounts, they're following through.

As for SUU, nobody is denying that they're looking for a Big Sky invite. They are putting money into their football program to make it competitive, and they've added all the Big Sky sports(the BSC requires all schools to participate in all BSC sports - with one or two exceptions). But there are persistant rumors that one or two major Big Sky schools are blocking their path for a variety of reasons. Unless something major happens in the BSC to break the status quo, I don't see an invite for SUU in the near future.

As for zoo's comment about why the Mid-Con took NDSU & SDSU over UVSC & UTPA, the situation today is very different. Back then, the Mid-Con was faced with either 10 with the xDSUs or 8 without(IPFW was a lock due to its core member status). At the time, UVSC had just begun its transition from junior college to Division I, while the xDSUs were just about to complete theirs. Also, UTPA is not an easy trip to Centenary. Have you checked an atlas? It's at least eleven hours by bus(more like 13-15), and trying to fly it commercially means significant bus trips on either end.

UTPA is still not a good choice unless a core member is desperately needed, but UVU is now much more attractive since they're nearing the end of their transition(2011?).

[zooropa]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

It's at least eleven hours by bus(more like 13-15).

Yeah. I noticed that after the fact. There's no direct route. You get used to roads being all in straight lines here in the eastern Dakotas.

As to UVU, their academic standing, IMO is still =highly= suspect.

Granted, the Summit ain't no prize pig when it comes to athletics, but consider:

* Three Summit schools have graduate programs in law, medicine, and business (Oakland, IUPUI--IUPUI is the 'home' of IU's school of medicine, and UMKC)
* The flagship xDSUs are charter land grant colleges and have impeccable reputations for ag and engineering, and if IPFW's stature as an engineering school isn't equal to Purdue's (or even the xDSUs), it still has a solid program in engineering.
* Centenary is a very highly regarded (and selective) UG liberal arts college.

As for the rest, well, Oral Roberts is pretty good at being what it is, if you like that sort of thing, and if SUU and WIU are no more than overgrown teacher's colleges, well at least they've got history--and post-grad programs.

Utah Valley has none of that going for it. IMO, inviting Utah Valley would seriously tarnish the academic status of the Summit. Call me a snob, but far better USD & UND than UVU.

------------------

I would also have some real concerns about UVU's recruiting base. Utah is growing rapidly, but you're still looking at BYU, Utah, Utah State, Weber State and SUU--five schools that are ahead of UVU when it comes to instate recruiting. Yeah, you can go to Las Vegas--maybe--but you'll be standing in line behind a lot of other schools there too.

[JackJD]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

KELO-TV had a clip this evening about the Summit visit to USD, including a few positive comments by Commissioner Douple. Douple and USD AD Nielsen were careful to not make any statements indicating an invitation was imminent. At the same time, watching the news clip leads me to conclude USD is viewed by Douple as a likely candidate for expansion --- his team will take the information gained back to the council of Presidents who will consider further whether expansion should take place and whether USD will get an invite. (Looks pretty positive for USD, in my opinion...no other schools being similarly investigated at this time.)

Douple stated (again) UND would not be considered for expansion until the name/mascot issue was resolved.

Go here for the KELO report: LINK

[Jacks-02]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

KELO-TV had a clip this evening about the Summit visit to USD, including a few positive comments by Commissioner Douple. Douple and USD AD Nielsen were careful to not make any statements indicating an invitation was imminent. At the same time, watching the news clip leads me to conclude USD is viewed by Douple as a likely candidate for expansion --- his team will take the information gained back to the council of Presidents who will consider further whether expansion should take place and whether USD will get an invite. (Looks pretty positive for USD, in my opinion...no other schools being similarly investigated at this time.)

Douple stated (again) UND would not be considered for expansion until the name/mascot issue was resolved.

Go here for the KELO report: LINK

Yeah, I listened to the press conference this afternoon on KWSN and all the committee members were very complimentary of what they experienced. I wouldn't be surprised if we heard something at the Summit league tournament about them getting invited to join, but I'm thinking they won't become members until maybe the 2011-2012 season based on their current position during the transition process and I believe they are signed to a commitment with the Great West all sports conference for a couple years.

[filbert]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I think the Summit in 2012 will be a 12-team league, with two 6-team divisions. I think USD will be in.

I think Chicago State, UND, and Utah Valley are candidates for the 12th slot. All have strengths. All have weaknesses.

Interesting times.

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I still think Denver is the wild card, I think they are the type of school that could push expansion simply becuase the league wouldn't want to miss out on bringing them in.

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

they said that the Summit League has been contacted by 6-7 teams that have shown interest..

Here is what I have
USD
UND
Utah Valley University or whatever they are called
University of Texas Pan America (I think thats what it is called)
Chicago State

who else?

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

I still think Denver is the wild card, I think they are the type of school that could push expansion simply becuase the league wouldn't want to miss out on bringing them in.

looking at them, there league, and what type of a program they seem to be I really think they'd leave if they were extended an offer.... And I think that the Summit should really look at them... I'd like to see the league go to 14 teams and invite everybody to the conference tournament.....

If the league could get Denver and Chicago state who I believe are both full members or whatever its called... plus add a USD and a UND... it could be really geographically and travel friendly.... plus then if Centenary and SUU decide to leave the league isn't left scrambling...

[Sec310]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

Summit Candidates: (not all-inclusive, but close, and only in a rough order of likelihood)


6. University of Denver: Member of the Sun Belt Conference. DU(don't ask about the order of the letters; it's a western thing) is in mild trouble with the Sun Belt at the moment. The SBC issued a directive last year stating that all members must sponsor a minimum number of SBC sports(16, I think). DU is well beneath this number and does not appear to be interested in adding the necessary sports. It's a badly kept secret that DU is not happy in the SBC, and the feeling appears to be mutual. A very proud institution, DU would only consider the Summit as a last resort. The West Coast Conference is very attractive to them because of the shared religious roots and very strong academics, though it is highly unlikely that the WCC would be interested in a Rocky Mountain school. Both the Mountain West and Western Athletic Conferences have been mentioned as potential homes, but DU's lack of a football program is often seen as a fatal flaw. The same is true of the Big Sky Conference, though it's likely that DU considers itself "too good" for the BSC. Enrollment is around 10,000 with an even split between undergrads and grads. With it's very eclectic selection of sports and its proximity to both Colorado and Colorado State, it's unlikely that DU will ever capture much of the Denver media market with the exception of hockey(they play in the WCHA with UND, Minn, Mich, etc). Travel in and out would be incredibly easy, though it's really too far to SUU to travel by bus, especially in winter(8.5 hours at best). DU is also an NCAA core member.


8. University of Texas - Pan American: Member of the Great West Conference. A medium sized school(17,000) in a terrible location, UTPA would likely only be considered if the Summit were in dire straits. Located about four hours south of San Antonio, UTPA is about as far south as you can get and still be in the continental US. The only reason it's on this list is its NCAA core member status.

.

While Denver has religious roots, the WCC is filled with Catholics schools. Denver was found by Methodists. If any school joins the WCC, it will be Seattle University.

Where did you find information that Denver is unhappy in the SBC and the SBC issued a directive about the number of sports a member school has to sponsor? (Not questioning those facts, just wondering if there are links)

As for the Sun Belt, Arkansas Little Rock, UNO and Denver all do not sponsor football. South Alabama is starting FCS in 09. Western Kentucky will have FBS football next year. Making Sun Belt football conference a nine team conference in 09. By 11, South Alabama will become FBS, making the Sun Belt a ten team football conference. They are currently a 13 team basketball conference. So Denver leaving will make a 12 team basketball conference with all teams. So Denver leaving would affect the Sun Belt too much. 12 team basketball and 10 team football conference works well. Plus the travel would be reduced, as North Texas is the western most school.

Another thing I've heard. Most WAC schools are concerned about the costs of going to La Tech. Hawaii to La Tech costs a major bucks. While most schools are publicly saying good things, most would prefer La Tech leaving the WAC. So where would La Tech go? Sun Belt seems natural but La Tech does not want to be in a same conference as La Monroe. Until CUSA gets raid (Memphis to the Big East) there aren't any opening there. So La Tech may have to swallow their pride and join the Sun Belt, which would make the plan in the above paragraph, shot to hell. Though the Sun Belt would gladly trade Denver for La Tech.

Texas Pan Am had their share of NCAA violations, maybe even worse than Chicago St.

Why is everybody so confident that SUU is leaving? The Big Sky has always turned them down. Why would things change now?

[FargoBison]

Re: Summit League to Visit USD

While Denver has religious roots, the WCC is filled with Catholics schools. Denver was found by Methodists. If any school joins the WCC, it will be Seattle University.

Where did you find information that Denver is unhappy in the SBC and the SBC issued a directive about the number of sports a member school has to sponsor? (Not questioning those facts, just wondering if there are links)

Texas Pan Am had their share of NCAA violations, maybe even worse than Chicago St.

Why is everybody so confident that SUU is leaving? The Big Sky has always turned them down. Why would things change now?

http://media.www.duclarion.com/media...-3373576.shtml