Bracketology

[MontanaRabbit]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology


ESPN Bracketology has Oral Roberts as a 13th seed out of the Summit League. Not too bad if you ask me.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: Bracketology

If ORU sweeps through the regular season and another team, say IUPUI or Oakland wins the conference tournament, does ORU get an at large bid? If yes that would be the best case for the league.

[1bunnies]

Re: Bracketology

If ORU sweeps through the regular season and another team, say IUPUI or Oakland wins the conference tournament, does ORU get an at large bid? If yes that would be the best case for the league.

At large bids are political. The best thing for ORU to do would be to win the Conference tourney. That is the only for sure bid.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Bracketology

If ORU sweeps through the regular season and another team, say IUPUI or Oakland wins the conference tournament, does ORU get an at large bid? If yes that would be the best case for the league.

I wouldn't hold my breath. At-large bids for "mid-majors" are extremely rare. As the "mid-major" programs just don't have the quality wins over big-time teams that many bigger programs do. The Summit has to prove to be like the MVC and have a team have success in the tourney,then and only then will the Summit stand a chance of getting an at-large bid.

[jackmd]

Re: Bracketology

I wouldn't hold my breath. At-large bids for "mid-majors" are extremely rare. As the "mid-major" programs just don't have the quality wins over big-time teams that many bigger programs do. The Summit has to prove to be like the MVC and have a team have success in the tourney,then and only then will the Summit stand a chance of getting an at-large bid.

I've followed NCAA basketball for 25 plus years. No way the Summit league gets an at-large bid this year. We'll be lucky to have a single team with an RPI in the top 80. ORU's overall RPI is 56 but non-conference its 86. IUPUI won't break the top 100 in RPI. Everybody else is much closer to 200th than 100th. BTW we are 306th and dropping.

Whoever wins our tourney will be the only bid from the Summit League. That is a guarantee.

[valleyrabbit]

Re: Bracketology

At large bids are political. The best thing for ORU to do would be to win the Conference tourney. That is the only for sure bid.

I understand that from ORU's perspective that is the case. From the Summit League perspective and SDSU's perspective we want the the league to get multiple bids. That may not happen this year, but that is the goal. For this to happen sometimes it is better for a team to dominate the whole season to build some repore with the selection comittee and then for another team to get the auto bid.

[jackmd]

Re: Bracketology

I understand that from ORU's perspective that is the case. From the Summit League perspective and SDSU's perspective we want the the league to get multiple bids. That may not happen this year, but that is the goal. For this to happen sometimes it is better for a team to dominate the whole season to build some repore with the selection comittee and then for another team to get the auto bid.

Only if the league has earned enough respect. Otherwise, a loss in the conference tourney nullifies any regular season accomplishments. A cinderella team from a major conference can win their tourney without hurting the chances of the best teams in the conference for an auto-bid. The Summit league does not deserve 2 teams in the tourney regardless of regular season results.

Fact is, the regular season is about position for the tourney. Now, lets say we find some strength and parity like the MVC. Then, if the top seed and regular season conference winner (say an RPI in the top 30) gets upset there might be a chance for 2 teams from the Summit. We are a LONG WAYS from that happening.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Bracketology

I think we project SDSU's youth and weaknesses into making the Summit stronger than it really is. Nagy has said his best DII teams could have won about 17 games, I think that was last year but the truth is this is a real down streak, not just increased competition.

If you looked at the all class Massey ratings that I posted, it would show that Northern and Winona could both very well be in the top four (not up with IUPUI and ORU but better than most) in the Summit. The truth is that the NCC was an exceptional football conference but had been lagging in basketball for some time. I do think, however, that if this team matures and doesn't fly apart, that it could very well be a top four Summit team by the time most of them are juniors and seniors.

[propar80]

Re: Bracketology

I think we project SDSU's youth and weaknesses into making the Summit stronger than it really is. Nagy has said his best DII teams could have won about 17 games, I think that was last year but the truth is this is a real down streak, not just increased competition.

If you looked at the all class Massey ratings that I posted, it would show that Northern and Winona could both very well be in the top four (not up with IUPUI and ORU but better than most) in the Summit. The truth is that the NCC was an exceptional football conference but had been lagging in basketball for some time. I do think, however, that if this team matures and doesn't fly apart, that it could very well be a top four Summit team by the time most of them are juniors and seniors.

Even Massey himself warns against reading too much into the rankings of teams that are in different Divisions. Winona and Northern don't play any D-1 teams, so there is no way that you could say ANY D-2/NCC/NSIC team is ahead of ANY Summit League team without both of them playing a full D-1 slate. Would some D-2/NCC/NSIC teams beat some Summit/Mid-Major teams, sure they would, but it wouldn't be very many.IMO
This was also debated during the Football season this year when UNO was ranked ahead of Nebraska in the Massey rankings. I don't think I would even buy that one and I can't stand the Huskers.

I agree with Grizzled, if this teams can stick together over this off-season, at some point I have to believe they will eventually make some noise in this conference. The goal next year for me for this team is to end up in SF with a chance. Remember...only the top 8 make it.

Go Jacks!!

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Bracketology

For the record, I think there's a big difference in talent between the top two teams and the mid-level Summit teams, even though they sometimes split home and home. Winona might finish third but they're a good long way behind ORU. Northern is very well coached but well behind on athleticism v. top Summit teams. (Short) White Men (from the upper midwest) can't jump, at least not very far.

[jackmd]

Re: Bracketology

For the record, I think there's a big difference in talent between the top two teams and the mid-level Summit teams, even though they sometimes split home and home. Winona might finish third but they're a good long way behind ORU. Northern is very well coached but well behind on athleticism v. top Summit teams. (Short) White Men (from the upper midwest) can't jump, at least not very far.

USD is better than NSU or Winona St. this year (IMHO). Where would they finish? Don't answer that, it doesn't matter.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Bracketology

USD is better than NSU or Winona St. this year (IMHO). Where would they finish? Don't answer that, it doesn't matter.

I'm boring everyone to death here, but I'm a librarian and you (indirectly) posed a question-- I can't help myself, I'm out of control.

Common foe (at Grand Forks):
NSU 86-UND 62
USD 83-UND 65

Just about a push.

(Admittedly flawed) Massey Ratings
Winona 139
NSU 178
USD 199
SDSU 312 (and dropping fast).