Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

[2002jack]

Read Terry V's blog.

http://blogs.argusleadermedia.com/sports/category/sdsu/

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

Didn't they get out because they had such a mess of an athletic department?

Could everything be fixed already?

Would their former conference mates trust that they wouldn't put a black eye on The Summit down the road?

On the other hand, would their previous years of membership count towards their core membership, which could be a benefit should another school leave down the road?

[filbert]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

Didn't they get out because they had such a mess of an athletic department?

Could everything be fixed already?

Would their former conference mates trust that they wouldn't put a black eye on The Summit down the road?

On the other hand, would their previous years of membership count towards their core membership, which could be a benefit should another school leave down the road?

I think they had some serious NCAA violation trouble with their women's basketball program a couple of years ago. It wasn't Death Penalty level violations but at the time, the rumors were swirling that something like that might be coming down from the NCAA. They seem to have avoided that fate, however.

The Chicago State people may have also thought that they had a shot at getting into the Horizon League with their brand new arena, but when that slot went to Valpo, that option went off the table.

My take is that if Chicago State wants back into the Summit, we should welcome them with open arms, if only to give the league a toehold in the Chicago media market. (Plus, Chicago is an AWFULLY fun town to spend all or part of a weekend, even one in January or February . . . )

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

(Plus, Chicago is an AWFULLY fun town to spend all or part of a weekend, even one in January or February . . . )

Excellent point. And CSU has a baseball team, so an April/May trip to Chitown would be a distinct possibility. Bring back the Cougars!

[thebluehatman]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

I saw if Chicago State has cleaned their act up let them come back but bring Utah Valley back. Utah Valley has shown a lot of potential to be a quality Mid-Major in the Past and a weekend in Utah could be kinda fun. *wink wink*

[2002jack]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

Why would they leave the conference and become an independent? If they thought they were a shoe-in for the Horizon, why didn't they just wait until they were accepted into the Horizon and then leave the Mid-con.

Are the people associated with this descicion, still with CSU?

Perhaps they had the same consultant as USD?

[jacksfaninne]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

I believe as Filbert noted, there were some pretty serious NCAA violation issues. It may have been a case of excusing themselves from the conference before someone did the excusing for them.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

Didn't they get out because they had such a mess of an athletic department?

Could everything be fixed already?

Would their former conference mates trust that they wouldn't put a black eye on The Summit down the road?

On the other hand, would their previous years of membership count towards their core membership, which could be a benefit should another school leave down the road?

Core member status is independant of conference status. Once you're a core member, you're always a core member. You're getting it mixed in with continuity of membership, which is a five year clock. To answer the question you meant, Chicago State would be a big help to solidify the Summit's MBB autobid. There are only three core members that are independant that I know of: Chicago State, UTPA and Savannah State. Geography-wise, CSU is the best choice, followed by UTPA. All three kinda suck from a competitive POV, so that's a wash.

The Summit is closer to losing its MBB autobid than anyone would really like. If one school(other than a xDSU) leaves, the Summit will be right on the edge. If two leave: game over. With ORU in a major scandal, SUU wanting in the Big Sky, Centenary thinking about DIII, and many of the Illinois and Indiana schools looking to the Horizon and the MVC(not that they'd get in), a one school buffer is like wearing a speedo in a blizzard(sorry about the mental image). As much as we'd all like a better choice, Chicago State is the best option.

Order of preference: 1. Chicago State; 2. UTPA; 3/4. UxD's 5. UVSU 6. SIU-E

The only way I can see the UxD's in the Summit is if no one leaves and we expand to 14, if two schools leave and we expand to 12, if the xDSU's get into the MVC and the Summit needs replacements, or if nothing happens until the xDSU's are about to reach core member status in 2016. However, I could easily see CSU and/or UTPA added within five years to go to 12 schools.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

CSU got in trouble when Cheryl Littlejohn was the women's BB coach. Yes, she was the coach at the U of M that was dismissed/resigned because of trouble in the program and the fact that she had less basketball knowledge than a rock. The joke at the time was that Gophers learned that they should not make two shots in a row because if you did you got a seat on the bench.

However, if I recall correctly, the WBB program was not the only one that was having problems. The death penalty was rumored, but apparently avoided by the changes incorporated "voluntarily" by CSU in the athletic dep't.

[valpofan56]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

The Chicago State people may have also thought that they had a shot at getting into the Horizon League with their brand new arena, but when that slot went to Valpo, that option went off the table.

Chicago State had to be completely insane to think they would ever have a shot at getting into the Horizon League. Why the hell would the HL (ninth best conference in RPI, tenth in Sagarin's) ever even consider adding a team like Chicago State when it already has two far superior teams in the Chicago market: Loyola (terrible this year, but typically good) and UIC.

if the xDSU's get into the MVC

This one is even more laughable then the first quote.

[Nidaros]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

It seems to me Chicago State will have to invest a great deal in correcting the error of their ways plus they have facilities needs like we do. So where will the funds come from? I been on the OIC campus and that was very nice campus near the loop, but never got a look at the athletic facilites. I see Loyola got tramped by Butler the other night so being D1 and in metro Chicago is not a gift for fundraising and fan attraction. These schools are competing against a lot of events going on when they are playing BB. I think Hammersmith comments about being a core member are interesting. But with this very comprehensive certification process and considering Chicago State's violations, would they not have to start the certification process over again? I question whether they were able to retain their core membership under these conditions. Hammer please explain how they would still be core member independent. How can they count for the big dance, if they are probation or almost asked to leave the Summit? I am thinking Chicago State's chances of getting back in the Summit are slim and none, "and slim just left town" to quote the late voice of the Jackrabbits Norm Hilson.

[filbert]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

It seems to me Chicago State will have to invest a great deal in correcting the error of their ways plus they have facilities needs like we do. So where will the funds come from? I been on the OIC campus and that was very nice campus near the loop, but never got a look at the athletic facilites. I see Loyola got tramped by Butler the other night so being D1 and in metro Chicago is not a gift for fundraising and fan attraction. These schools are competing against a lot of events going on when they are playing BB. I think Hammersmith comments about being a core member are interesting. But with this very comprehensive certification process and considering Chicago State's violations, would they not have to start the certification process over again? I question whether they were able to retain their core membership under these conditions. Hammer please explain how they would still be core member independent. How can they count for the big dance, if they are probation or almost asked to leave the Summit? I am thinking Chicago State's chances of getting back in the Summit are slim and none, "and slim just left town" to quote the late voice of the Jackrabbits Norm Hilson.

Well, they just did open a brand-new 6,000 seat arena this year, so they are actively upgrading their facilities.

I would hope and expect that their recent athletic near-death experience would have encouraged their administration to clean things up there. We'll see.

I'm in no particular hurry to add additional members to the Summit League, but a school in Chicago makes the league more attractive nationally in terms of media market exposure (making it somewhat more likely that the Fox Sports Nets and ESPN's of the world might pick up a few of the league's games). Seems to me that's CSU's main positive in any conference expansion discussion.

[Vision]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

It seems to me Chicago State will have to invest a great deal in correcting the error of their ways plus they have facilities needs like we do. So where will the funds come from?

Well Nidaros they built a $32 million convocation center that is included in Chicago´s bid to host the Olympic games in 2016.
I am not sure of the extent of their violations, but I do not believe that they were actually sanctioned by the NCAA. I´m not sure the mystery has ever been solved regarding why they left the conference. I personally would be all for them rejoining the league. They are a core member, in the middle of the conference footprint, in a large metro area, and they have a great arena. I am sure that they have plenty of work to do on the athletic front, but it seems to me that they have a large upside. I would rather have CSU than Souther Utah or Centenary.

[sfsd]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

Chicago State leaving the Mid-Con was certainly addition by subtraction for the league moving forward. This isn't just about poor facilities or Cheryl Littlejohn. It's widely considered one of the most mismanaged college athletic departments in the country. I am a bit out of the loop, but why the Summit schools would now openly embrace this program is beyond me.

Perhaps you guys are forgetting the absolute joke their hoops program became a few years ago. Here's a refresher:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...wp=body_middle

Bizarre goings-on at Chicago St.; Basketball coach Jones and his son
Chicago Sun-Times, Apr 13, 2007 by Greg Couch
Kevin Jones is out of work, fired as Chicago State's basketball coach. His son, Kevin Jr., who played for his dad, has rehab on his back one day, a court date the next, counseling after that.

He can't go into a room without making sure the door is locked. He can't get into the shower without creeping up on the curtain and making sure no one is in there already, waiting to beat him up.

He knows ex-teammate Camron Clay, who already allegedly beat him up twice, isn't going to be in his room. His brain tells him that. But he has to check anyway because the feeling is still there.

"Yeah," Jones Jr. said the other day while waiting for the judge to call his name at a far South Side courthouse. "It's just like that."

So the damage is clear, but the reason is not. Officially, Jones was fired without cause, which is Chicago State's way of working a loophole in Jones' contract that would allow it not to pay the final three years of the deal, worth $85,000 a year.

Without cause. Without reason.

"People don't know what really happened," Jones said. "They think I'm a crazed coach who went after a player. That's not the case at all.

"I didn't do anything wrong, except recruiting that crazy Camron Clay, which cost me my job."



Then beyond that, here's a snippet from a Chicago Tribune story from last month:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=8&gl=us

This story contains corrected material, published Dec. 14, 2007.

Chicago State University trustees took steps Wednesday to tighten their control over university finances, the day a Tribune investigation reported that the university bought two high-priced copy machines this year from a company owned by one of its employees.

Board members voted to meet more frequently next year, and chair Betsy Hill said she admonished administrators that all purchases greater than $250,000 should be brought to the board.


Chicago State copier buys were inside deal
After a board meeting held on campus, trustees also told the Tribune they plan to question how the $251,000 purchase -- which was not competitively bid -- was allowed to happen.

"We are taking a look and getting as much information as we can," said Trustee Jim Reynolds, chair of the board's audit committee. "How did an error like that occur? Where did the controls break down? Whose responsibility was it to make sure that didn't happen?"

The Tribune finding comes in the same year that a state audit revealed lax financial controls at the South Side university. The leader of the faculty's governing body told board members Wednesday that the faculty have "grave concerns" about how the audit has "damaged the reputation and impugned the integrity" of the institution while also affecting morale.

The audit found that President Elnora Daniel (the name as published has been corrected in this text) spent university money on personal items, alcohol and other unapproved expenses.

"It made me wonder what levels of accountability, what levels of training ... are in place," Reynolds said.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Chicago State Rejoining the Summit League?

It seems to me Chicago State will have to invest a great deal in correcting the error of their ways plus they have facilities needs like we do. So where will the funds come from? I been on the OIC campus and that was very nice campus near the loop, but never got a look at the athletic facilites. I see Loyola got tramped by Butler the other night so being D1 and in metro Chicago is not a gift for fundraising and fan attraction. These schools are competing against a lot of events going on when they are playing BB. I think Hammersmith comments about being a core member are interesting. But with this very comprehensive certification process and considering Chicago State's violations, would they not have to start the certification process over again? I question whether they were able to retain their core membership under these conditions. Hammer please explain how they would still be core member independent. How can they count for the big dance, if they are probation or almost asked to leave the Summit? I am thinking Chicago State's chances of getting back in the Summit are slim and none, "and slim just left town" to quote the late voice of the Jackrabbits Norm Hilson.

Since you asked...
Being a core institution has nothing to do with conferences or probation or being eligible for the postseason. Being a core institution only has to do with how long you've been a member of Division I. Once you're a core institution, you're one as long as you stay in DI. Also, as vision said, I'm pretty sure Chicago State never officially received sanctions by the NCAA. Now, is Chicago State the most desirable member of DI to add, or are they the perfect school? Of course not. But they may be the best choice of the schools available.

Here's something else to consider. These are the current travel partners in the Summit:
UMKC/SUU (1200 mi)
CC/ORU (350 mi)
IUPUI/WIU (275 mi)
NDSU/SDSU (200 mi)
Oak/IPFW (200 mi)
Avg distance between: 450 mi

If you add Chicago State and Utah Valley State:
CC/ORU (Shreveport/Tulsa - 350 mi)
UMKC/WIU (Kansas City/Macomb - 300 mi)
SUU/UVSU (Cedar City/Provo - 250 mi)
NDSU/SDSU (Fargo/Brookings - 200 mi)
Oak/IPFW (Detroit/Fort Wayne - 200 mi)
IUPUI/CSU (Indianapolis/Chicago - 200 mi)
Avg distance between: 250 mi

Now, if SUU were to leave for the Big Sky, UVSU wouldn't be one of the additions, but that would also make Chicago State almost a sure thing; a core member replacement would be essential.

To valpofan56: The comments about Chicago State possibly thinking they could get into the Horizon came from an article in the Chicago Sports Weekly. The reporter could be right or wrong, but the idea did not come from just SDSU messageboard posters. Solo Flight Plan

As for my comment about the xDSU's in the MVC, normally when I bring it up, I always make sure to say it's a long shot and many years away. Maybe a 10-15% chance within the next 15 years. In this case, I was trying to quickly lay out the possible scenarios where the UxD's could get into the Summit, no matter how unlikely. The xDSU's-to-MVC scenario I refer to includes the conference adding FBS football and needing 2-4 additional football playing schools to meet the FBS minimum of eight. Again, unlikely, but a lot can happen in 10-15 years.