Western Illinois to OVC

[JackJD]

ffilbert's suggestion of Central Missouri is a good suggestion. Having a Missouri school join the Summit -- whether Central Missouri, Lindenwood, NW Missouri, seems to be a practical solution. I wonder if there is any interest at Central Missouri or NW Missouri on moving up to D-1 & FCS?

I wonder too if Missouri State would view such a move much like the way many of the Summit League Dakota schools view adding Augustana. Will adding a Missouri school to the Summit League and MVFC push Missouri State to leave the MVFC and move to FBS as is sometimes rumored?

Finding a scheduling partner for Denver U would be nice but I don't know what may be available in that neighborhood. Denver has top academic profile...I'm sure they'd prefer to be associated with doctoral-degree granting institutions. The loss of Western Illinois is sad but one we've been half-expecting. Finding a replacement will be tough.

[discoDancinRabbit]

ffilbert's suggestion of Central Missouri is a good suggestion. Having a Missouri school join the Summit -- whether Central Missouri, Lindenwood, NW Missouri, seems to be a practical solution. I wonder if there is any interest at Central Missouri or NW Missouri on moving up to D-1 & FCS?

I wonder too if Missouri State would view such a move much like the way many of the Summit League Dakota schools view adding Augustana. Will adding a Missouri school to the Summit League and MVFC push Missouri State to leave the MVFC and move to FBS as is sometimes rumored?

Finding a scheduling partner for Denver U would be nice but I don't know what may be available in that neighborhood. Denver has top academic profile...I'm sure they'd prefer to be associated with doctoral-degree granting institutions. The loss of Western Illinois is sad but one we've been half-expecting. Finding a replacement will be tough.

I kind of doubt it. Just guessing, but they would have to sacrifice their football to the pioneer or something like that as I seriously doubt the MVFC would be willing to vote a school like that into the league. And for what? The SL? No, apparently they are winning national championships at the D2 level and haven't wanted to do anything else. I agree they would be a good add for the SL, and so would Northern Colorado. But would the MVFC vote in favor of that? Are they unhappy in the Big Sky? The inevitability seems to be Augiestana or at least thats what it sounds like. They are an obvious addition for the SL. But as as SDSU fan I think an addition like that would make it even more obvious that the MVFC/SL situation is not a long term solution at all.

[perryc]

Isn't there still an NCAA penalty for D-I schools that switch conferences? Something like five years without March Madness TV revenue? There are also conference exit fees to consider.

Of course, that didn't stop UMKC from doing it twice in 10 years...but that kind of stupidity is uncommon.

Pretty sure the Summit will be sniffing around in D-II. Obviously, Augie is already a candidate.

[filbert]

Isn't there still an NCAA penalty for D-I schools that switch conferences? Something like five years without March Madness TV revenue? There are also conference exit fees to consider.

Of course, that didn't stop UMKC from doing it twice in 10 years...but that kind of stupidity is uncommon.

Pretty sure the Summit will be sniffing around in D-II. Obviously, Augie is already a candidate.

I've never heard of an NCAA restriction or penalty on D-I schools changing conferences.

[MontanaRabbit]

Isn't there still an NCAA penalty for D-I schools that switch conferences? Something like five years without March Madness TV revenue? There are also conference exit fees to consider.

Of course, that didn't stop UMKC from doing it twice in 10 years...but that kind of stupidity is uncommon.

Pretty sure the Summit will be sniffing around in D-II. Obviously, Augie is already a candidate.

Obviously? The only way Augie gets into the Summit is if SDSU and USD are in a different conference.

[OldHare]

Isn't there still an NCAA penalty for D-I schools that switch conferences? Something like five years without March Madness TV revenue? There are also conference exit fees to consider.

Of course, that didn't stop UMKC from doing it twice in 10 years...but that kind of stupidity is uncommon.

Pretty sure the Summit will be sniffing around in D-II. Obviously, Augie is already a candidate.

I think the Summit has $1 million exit fee for teams moving out of conference. There may be an entry fee as well. Whether either of these is waived for teams is unknown. The WAC had waived some of UMKC entry fee during that move. I am not sure of the Summit exit fee at that time or whether it was established later or WAC subsidized the Roos.

[perryc]

I've never heard of an NCAA restriction or penalty on D-I schools changing conferences.

TV credits are earned on a six-year rolling basis. Change conferences, and you lose credits. See page 8...

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/nca...butionPlan.pdf

[filbert]

TV credits are earned on a six-year rolling basis. Change conferences, and you lose credits. See page 8...

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/nca...butionPlan.pdf

I'm guessing that you're referring to the Basketball Performance Fund.

Those units for tournament wins, and the funds associated with them, go direct from the NCAA to the conference, not to the school (unless the school is an independent). They belong to the conference, not the school.

I'm hard-pressed to see how this is a "penalty" for a school that changes conferences.

[perryc]

"If an institution leaves a conference to join another conference or becomes independent, while the former conference remains in operation, the units previously earned by the institution remain with the former conference."

I'm I could draw you a picture, I would.

[filbert]

One unit is awarded to each institution participating in each game, except the first game played by automatic qualifiers and the championship game. Units are retained by the conference in which they are earned. All units earned by each conference or independent within a six-year rolling period are included in the distribution calculation.

I don't see this as a penalty. Obviously you do.

Oh, and the very first sentence in the Basketball Performance Fund section:

The Basketball Performance Fund is distributed to active Division I conferences based on their performance in the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship over a six-year rolling period.

The shares do not EVER "belong" in any sense to the school. They belong to the conference. The conference can distribute to its members the funds in any way that the conference members agree to. There's no obligation for the conference to distribute these funds to a school which is no longer a member.

So yeah, if you leave the conference, you leave behind whatever fraction of the BPF that you've been getting from your ex-conference, whether or not you've actually "earned" it by appearing in the NCAA tournament.

[HoboJack]

"If an institution leaves a conference to join another conference or becomes independent, while the former conference remains in operation, the units previously earned by the institution remain with the former conference."

I'm I could draw you a picture, I would.

First paragraph of the page you referenced:

“The Basketball Performance Fund is distributed to active Division I conferences based on their performance in the Division I Men’s Basketball Championship over a six-year rolling period. Independent institutions earn unit(s) “

If you are in a conference, the fund is distributed to the conference not the school. It is up to the conference to determine how the funds are distributed to its members. NCAA recommends equal distribution to all members. Summit League has chosen to give the conference participant an extra share (ie ORU gets twice as much money as USD does from its sweet 16 run).

If ORU leaves the Summit League, the Summit still collects all 6 years of the revenue and gets to determine how it is distributed. If the Summit league wanted to distribute it to the former members, or to new members is up to the conference. Calling that an NCAA penalty is a stretch.


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[discoDancinRabbit]

It's as if conferences themselves should all be obliterated entirely and each university become some sort of independently acting thing.

[Mr_Tibbs]

I think that until the Dakota schools are in an all-sports league with other small-state flagship and land grant institutions, we will always be in a revolving door of conference instability. The Summit League is not attractive to most of the schools we would hope we could entice to join (like Northern Iowa) and the MVFC-MVC-Summit relationship is tricky at best and makes expansion more difficult than it already is.

I’m not necessarily on the FBS train, but I do think that the only truly stable future that exists for SDSU in a conference in the future is going to involve Montana, MSU, and Idaho. Those three plus the Dakota 4 are almost identical in size, endowment, academic mission, and athletics funding. Hitching our wagon to non-football schools in the Summit like UMKC and Omaha isn’t probably going to be a long term path to stability. I love the Valley and I love having the Summit tournament in Sioux Falls, but we can’t keep dealing with schools leaving every two or three years.

The Missoula ESPN analyst Colter Nuanez has had several podcasts the last three weeks focusing on why the Montana schools need to leave the Big Sky and go FBS. In that discussion, they keep returning to the fact that those schools and the Dakotas have much more in common than not and need to be in a conference together, ideally at the FBS level. I’m not sure about that move up portion of that, but I think every fan in Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, and North Dakota knows we all have much more in common with each other than any one of us do with Northern Colorado, Western Illinois, Sacramento State, or UMKC.

For a long time, people have speculated that the Montanas would never leave the Big Sky because they were charter members. If you listen to their fans and even some of the school administrators, it’s apparent that they are not pleased with the Big Sky in many ways and want to leave behind the UNCs of the world for greener pastures. The mood between the Dakota 4 and Idaho/UM/MSU seems to be aligning and I think they need to figure out a way to combine and create a new conference. I’m not sure if Idaho State and Weber fit into it, but I think you have to build outward from the core of the northern plains and northern Rockies.

Rotate the conference tournament every other year between Sioux Falls and Boise, or host it in Rapid every year.

If the much talked about “split” between the G5 and Power 5 ever happens, we can add Utah State and Wyoming into the mix of rural land grants that we have a lot in common with and can hopefully align with in the future.

[discoDancinRabbit]

That's well said Mr. Tibbs. You make some great points. Simply flipping the MVFC into an all sports league, I think, would be ideal. Nearly everything would be accounted for except FBS football as I don't think the quality and commitment is there with schools like Murray State, Indiana State, USD and arguably some others. Plus the MVC publics aren't going to be willing to accept that because they just have far better situations in the MVC and basketball then staying in the FCS and joining all sports with the Dakotas. And it might be relevant to watch what happens with the PAC12 and MWC. If the MWC gets raided then they may be forced to send out a ton of invites which might have to include the Montanas. NDSU, SDSU would have to be in the conversation as well as some others in a situation like that. Or the MWC will stay intact and going FBS will continue to be a dream. But yeah, if the goal is to make a stable low/mid major FCS league with similar schools that have a pulse I agree that the aim would be the 4 Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho and probably the surrounding FCS level schools like Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Weber State, Northern Colorado, and potentially even Omaha.

[ringthebells]

I'm open to FBS, but I am not a fan of going more than one time zone west. I don't think it would affect football too much, those late starts would be a killer to our basketball fandom. Bisonville seems to have a hard-on for the Mountain West, but that football conference once the top teams are gone, is dog water. The novelty of kicking the **** out of Colorado State will wear out quickly. Their basketball is pretty fun to watch though.