Augie to the Summit?

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

My assumption (which isn't based on any real evidence) is that you'll see Augie try to go D1 with FCS scholarship football. I imagine they'll try to get in the summit for everything else, and go into some type of western start up league with Dixie State, who has also expressed interest in FCS. Long term, I'm sure Augie wants to be in a football league with the dakotas, but the start up will be the only way they can go FCS while waiting to build funds for a full scholly team. We're at the tipping point of having 3 western FCS leagues, and Augie, Dixie state, and GCU all expressing interest in FCS at the same time (coupled with a Texas start up it two) might be the final piece. This is all my own opinion and is entirely subjective, but that's how I see this going. I hobestly can't imagine that Augie will cut football, and I think their alumni would be upset if they were no longer giving scholarships for D1 football. Since an MVFC or Big Sky invite is highly unlikely, the Great West 2.0 makes sense.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

My assumption (which isn't based on any real evidence) is that you'll see Augie try to go D1 with FCS scholarship football. I imagine they'll try to get in the summit for everything else, and go into some type of western start up league with Dixie State, who has also expressed interest in FCS. Long term, I'm sure Augie wants to be in a football league with the dakotas, but the start up will be the only way they can go FCS while waiting to build funds for a full scholly team. We're at the tipping point of having 3 western FCS leagues, and Augie, Dixie state, and GCU all expressing interest in FCS at the same time (coupled with a Texas start up it two) might be the final piece. This is all my own opinion and is entirely subjective, but that's how I see this going. I hobestly can't imagine that Augie will cut football, and I think their alumni would be upset if they were no longer giving scholarships for D1 football. Since an MVFC or Big Sky invite is highly unlikely, the Great West 2.0 makes sense.

I still expect Western Illinois to drop down to DII if they can't get their financial house in order. This could provide an opening for Augie in the MVC, but expect them to go non-scholarship out of the gate.

[goon]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I still expect Western Illinois to drop down to DII if they can't get their financial house in order. This could provide an opening for Augie in the MVC, but expect them to go non-scholarship out of the gate.

Hopefully umkc gets things in order. But I have my doubts about western. Auggie could easily be a better conference member then western in a short amount of time. I really hope auggie goes pioneer league. That really would be the best for them. Keep football and get a conference with an auto bid. Doesn't have to compete at the level and money as the rest of the dakotas.

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Western has been a solid contributor to the conference in multiple sports for longer than SDSU and other schools from the Dakotas. Also, Western expands the national footprint and prospective corporate base of the Summit far more than Augie, which most likely will just suck resources away from existing members.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Western has been a solid contributor to the conference in multiple sports for longer than SDSU and other schools from the Dakotas. Also, Western expands the national footprint and prospective corporate base of the Summit far more than Augie, which most likely will just suck resources away from existing members.

Have you ever been to Macomb?

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Have you ever been to Macomb?

No, I've never been to Macomb. I understand it's a small college town, like Brookings or Vermillion. But it's within a 100 miles of a couple of bigger metro areas. And it's in Illinois, the sixth-largest state in population in the U.S.

[SidelineObserver]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

No, I've never been to Macomb. I understand it's a small college town, like Brookings or Vermillion. But it's within a 100 miles of a couple of bigger metro areas. And it's in Illinois, the sixth-largest state in population in the U.S.

Think of a dumpier Vermillion and that's Macomb. There really isn't anything there worth talking about.

[goon]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Think of a dumpier Vermillion and that's Macomb. There really isn't anything there worth talking about.

Aside from financial problems and poor attendance you mean?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

No, I've never been to Macomb. I understand it's a small college town, like Brookings or Vermillion. But it's within a 100 miles of a couple of bigger metro areas. And it's in Illinois, the sixth-largest state in population in the U.S.

Macomb does nothing to expand any National footprint or prospective corporate base in Illinois.

[thumper_76]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Honestly if I were the Summit League I'd invite St. Thomas long before I'd invite Augie--even with the 10(?) year wait before they would be a full D-I member.

If we're recreating the NCC we might as well go all the way back to a charter 1922 NCC member in a major metro area.

I'm not totally opposed to Augie but I don't see what they bring that a St. Thomas won't except a warm body a bit quicker. Plus St. Thomas would be a nationally significant sports story in a way Augie will never be.

I am quite publicly against Augie being added, but adding St Thomas is far and away a better add just from the standpoint of being able to have yearly games in the Twin Cities where a lot of the Summit teams recruit. Getting a team for the conference in the Cities is infinitely better for the conference than adding a third SD team in a market already fought over for fans and well represented by the conference already. Better to get the Summit League teams known in the Twin Cities IMO.

I still expect Western Illinois to drop down to DII if they can't get their financial house in order. This could provide an opening for Augie in the MVC, but expect them to go non-scholarship out of the gate.

Even if WIU leaves the MVFC has too many teams. I don’t see any draw for the MVFC to add them other than having a team that Misery St and SIU can have be under them in the standings every year. Only way they would get in is if all the Summit teams push for them and I have a hard time seeing them doing that again after doing it twice.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Honestly if I were the Summit League I'd invite St. Thomas long before I'd invite Augie--even with the 10(?) year wait before they would be a full D-I member.

If we're recreating the NCC we might as well go all the way back to a charter 1922 NCC member in a major metro area.

I'm not totally opposed to Augie but I don't see what they bring that a St. Thomas won't except a warm body a bit quicker. Plus St. Thomas would be a nationally significant sports story in a way Augie will never be.

Since I gave Filbert rep points for this post and ran out of space in my remarks, I will do that here. Back in the NCC days I seem to recall a history of the NCC being printed in football programs and maybe in media guidesand it gave the list of original members and St. Thomas was an original member along with Creighton in Omaha. Creighton stayed in the NCC a few more years than St Thomas. If we are looking at demographics St. Thomas is a big time connection being in the Twin Cities. I can see some of the MIAC members wanting St. Thomas to leave and they do perhaps belong in another level of competition. Augustana is equally a good but after reading the Q & A with Justin sell, there seems to uncertainty in competing for corporate sponsors. My thinking was there are many corporate sponsors in Sioux Falls. Some are not on board with giving SDSU or USD their time of day and we collect zip from them, and they might be more open to sponsoring a local university such as Augustana. In the link I posted https://www.apnews.com/ff489c6e64f8431a99f0d453c7fa674c a dated article, Augie has a vision of becoming a Notre Dame or maybe a Creighton. That in my opinion is a good vision. Getting their enrollment to the Creighton level which I believe is 8k or 9K maybe be harder than getting the D1 budget fullfilled with corporate sponsorships IIRCC, there are two new dorms planned at Augustana. I think its old Dakota nonsense about South Dakota being too small to support three D1 programs. I think we can.

[LARabbit]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Correct, the Universities are grouped by mission, level of research, where their students come from (regional vs national) and other criteria. A national research university does not inherently imply that the university has higher academic standards than a regional university for example. Rank within ones classification is a better indication of academic quality/rigor than what classification the institution is in when looking at undergraduate programs.

I should have used the phrase 'Academic Classification' rather than 'Academic Ranking'. Augie's classification does not mean they are a poor school academically, but it is interesting that they are classified as a regional College and not University.

According to the US News Classification Regional Colleges "focus on undergraduate education but grant fewer than half their degrees in liberal arts disciplines. Regional Colleges include the United States Coast Guard Academy, High Point University, Taylor University and Oklahoma Baptist University."
"Regional Universities offer a full range of undergraduate programs and some master's programs but few doctoral programs. Regional Universities include Gonzaga University, Xavier University, Elon University and Providence College."

Here is a link describing the classification and ranking process:
https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...d-the-rankings

Classifications are based on the Carnegie classification. Here is a link describing their classification process:
http://carnegieclassifications.iu.ed...ions/basic.php

Augies is classified as "Master Colleges - Small Programs". The majority of the Summit League is classified as "R2: Doctoral Universities - High Research Activity".

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I have gone from the Augie hating days of carrot throwing to now a pro DIV 1 proponent. I can see South Dakota having two medical and law schools if Augustana can progress in the manner projected. They are shooting for an enrollment of 3000 in the near future which is taking realistic baby steps. With the growth of SF and surrounding area, I can see an increased demand for doctors and lawyers and other professionals. Augustana being a private institution does not need the blessing of the legislature to start a law or a medical school. All it need is butts in the seats wanting to enter those professions. Another law or medicine school are no doubt a long ways pff but very possible with the support of the movers and shakers in SF.

[Jacks-02]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I have gone from the Augie hating days of carrot throwing to now a pro DIV 1 proponent. I can see South Dakota having two medical and law schools if Augustana can progress in the manner projected. They are shooting for an enrollment of 3000 in the near future which is taking realistic baby steps. With the growth of SF and surrounding area, I can see an increased demand for doctors and lawyers and other professionals. Augustana being a private institution does not need the blessing of the legislature to start a law or a medical school. All it need is butts in the seats wanting to enter those professions. Another law or medicine school are no doubt a long ways pff but very possible with the support of the movers and shakers in SF.

I actually think that is a big driver for this. The Sanford campus isn't far from the Augie campus, and with the medical school in Vermillion, it doesn't lend itself very well for collaboration or recruiting. If T. Denny can give a huge donation and bring Augie to DI in athletics, it will likely bring academics and enrollment to a higher level as well.

I see Augie as a much bigger threat to USD than to SDSU. There is much more crossover in academics with USD, and Augie going DI isn't going to infringe on SDSU's dominance in Ag or Engineering.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I actually think that is a big driver for this. The Sanford campus isn't far from the Augie campus, and with the medical school in Vermillion, it doesn't lend itself very well for collaboration or recruiting. If T. Denny can give a huge donation and bring Augie to DI in athletics, it will likely bring academics and enrollment to a higher level as well.

I see Augie as a much bigger threat to USD than to SDSU. There is much more crossover in academics with USD, and Augie going DI isn't going to infringe on SDSU's dominance in Ag or Engineering.

The law school in Vermillion might have to move to SF to compete someday long after I am gone. Same with medicine. Monopolies do not last forever. Yes USD stands to loose in many areas because of the growth of Augustana. It does need to happen first or its just pie in the sky.