Augie to the Summit?

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I find it interesting that so many Sioux Falls media, and those who want Augustana to move up (even some of our own fans) think Augie is a shoe in for Summit membership if they choose to move up. I'm not sure that is true. I can think of a number of schools who would likely vote against the addition. Beginning with DU and ending with WIU and ORU.

I thought WIU was Augie?
*In reference to WIU paying (beer & pizza) Augie Students to be fans at Men's Championship game a few years back.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I find it interesting that so many Sioux Falls media, and those who want Augustana to move up (even some of our own fans) think Augie is a shoe in for Summit membership if they choose to move up. I'm not sure that is true. I can think of a number of schools who would likely vote against the addition. Beginning with DU and ending with WIU and ORU.

It would never be brought to a vote unless they had the votes.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I find it interesting that so many Sioux Falls media, and those who want Augustana to move up (even some of our own fans) think Augie is a shoe in for Summit membership if they choose to move up. I'm not sure that is true. I can think of a number of schools who would likely vote against the addition. Beginning with DU and ending with WIU and ORU.

If it should ever come to a vote, does anyone know how many current members would have to vote in favor of inviting a new member? I have been made to understand that in some conferences that number is an overwhelming majority as opposed to a simple majority.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Conference politics have been mentioned, but have not really been discussed head on. What would happen if before a meeting of the conference governing board two (or more) schools that don't have the word Dakota in their name whispered to everyone in the hall before entering the meeting room that they really don't dislike the Dakotas, but if they have to make another trip here every year that it will be time to look elsewhere for a conference home? Would admitting Augie even come up for discussion? Would the I-90 schools take one new member and alienate two? If those members actually followed through and left for other pastures, would that kill the Summit's chances for future expansion into areas to the east, south, and southwest of the Dakotas?

What if the two South Dakota schools whisper that they don't need more D-I competition for the few athletes and sponsorship dollars in South Dakota and would gladly form a pact to seek membership in another conference together? Would the discussion of whether or not to invite Augie to the Summit even come up at that meeting.

I believe that Augustana University should be in control of its own destiny. However, maybe there are reasons unknown to us, and perhaps forever unspoken, that will prevent the Summit governing board from putting the addition of Augustana on the agenda. Maybe the title of this thread should be Augie to the WAC?

Excellent points. Is there any school in the summit that stands to really benefit from Augie being added? It's another warm body in the footprint, and it helps with some sports/stability. But I don't see a single school that would really be a champion for Augie to join the league. No Dakota school wants them, whether it be due to increased local competition for resources or just the familiarity and perception of Augie being part of the old guard that the Dakota schools left in 2004-2008. ORU, Denver, and IPFW have no reason to like the addition, since it'll add another trip to the Dakotas. WIU has no real reason to be enthused about it either. UNO? At best I'd say it's net neutral for them.


The only way it benefits the existing league members is if we are in survival mode. The departure of Ft Wayne could change the stability of the league, and that might make Augie attractive enough to add. But if other schools have other conference options, would they choose to stay in the summit with another SD team added and all the negatives that come with that, or would they prefer to look elsewhere?

None of this is to say that the summit has a line out the door of quality additions in the fold to add instead of Augie should the league need to. We do not. Or rather, we have very few that are realistic. It's a lose-lose for the current Dakota schools with Augie.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Don't disagree. However, I'm old enough to remember Creighton fighting tooth and nail to capture a basketball audience in the state of Nebraska. Creighton has more than tripled their basketball attendance in the last 20 years. If Augie could do the same in the next 20 years the Premier Center wouldn't hold their crowds.

Centenary is in Shreveport, which is a terrible comparison to Sioux Falls in almost every way except the number of warm bodies within the city limits.

A big If. This big city thinking is driving this and will not see 8000 students at Augie any soon unless the new admin turns Augie into a mail order diploma mill.

[GoJacks2010]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Excellent points. Is there any school in the summit that stands to really benefit from Augie being added? It's another warm body in the footprint, and it helps with some sports/stability. But I don't see a single school that would really be a champion for Augie to join the league. No Dakota school wants them, whether it be due to increased local competition for resources or just the familiarity and perception of Augie being part of the old guard that the Dakota schools left in 2004-2008. ORU, Denver, and IPFW have no reason to like the addition, since it'll add another trip to the Dakotas. WIU has no real reason to be enthused about it either. UNO? At best I'd say it's net neutral for them.


The only way it benefits the existing league members is if we are in survival mode. The departure of Ft Wayne could change the stability of the league, and that might make Augie attractive enough to add. But if other schools have other conference options, would they choose to stay in the summit with another SD team added and all the negatives that come with that, or would they prefer to look elsewhere?

None of this is to say that the summit has a line out the door of quality additions in the fold to add instead of Augie should the league need to. We do not. Or rather, we have very few that are realistic. It's a lose-lose for the current Dakota schools with Augie.

Augie has to look at this from a worst case scenario as well. Let's hypothetically say the Summit League would accept them. Now let's say the Summit League disbands in 3-4 years. Now what does Augie do? The Valley surely isn't taking them, they can't afford the travel costs associated with other potential suitors, even if there was a league they very well could mandate football to stabilize the league numbers, etc.

Risky. The pockets aren't deep enough. If for some reason basketball would in the tank they would be in a world of hurt.

[2002jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Wow, this topic won’t die. Time for my annual sabbatical from the message board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[91jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

[QUOTE=West-River_Jack;331031]
What if the two South Dakota schools whisper that they don't need more D-I competition for the few athletes and sponsorship dollars in South Dakota and would gladly form a pact to seek membership in another conference together? Would the discussion of whether or not to invite Augie to the Summit even come up at that meeting.

I keep seeing this about the competition for the athletes but I don't think that means a lot now that we are DI.
After next year, SDSU will only have 1 MBB players from SD and USD won't have any. SDSU does have several SD WBB players but there are a lot of them so I don't see that changing too much. USD will only have 2 SD WBB players on their roster next year.
We are bringing in coaches from other areas, we just don't have as many SD players for these teams anymore. I don't think either volleyball team has a player from SD. SDSU's softball team does NOT have a player from SD on the roster but their baseball team 12 players from SD. I would say that is an exception to the rule.

I do think the sponsorship dollars will be effected though. Will the Argus hire somebody else? I think the way the Argus is pushing Augie, they might get a lot more coverage then they do now. Less money and less coverage, that just doesn't sound very promising for SDSU.

I could be way off base on this though.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

[QUOTE=91jack;331046]

What if the two South Dakota schools whisper that they don't need more D-I competition for the few athletes and sponsorship dollars in South Dakota and would gladly form a pact to seek membership in another conference together? Would the discussion of whether or not to invite Augie to the Summit even come up at that meeting.

I keep seeing this about the competition for the athletes but I don't think that means a lot now that we are DI.
After next year, SDSU will only have 1 MBB players from SD and USD won't have any. SDSU does have several SD WBB players but there are a lot of them so I don't see that changing too much. USD will only have 2 SD WBB players on their roster next year.
We are bringing in coaches from other areas, we just don't have as many SD players for these teams anymore. I don't think either volleyball team has a player from SD. SDSU's softball team does NOT have a player from SD on the roster but their baseball team 12 players from SD. I would say that is an exception to the rule.

I do think the sponsorship dollars will be effected though. Will the Argus hire somebody else? I think the way the Argus is pushing Augie, they might get a lot more coverage then they do now. Less money and less coverage, that just doesn't sound very promising for SDSU.

I could be way off base on this though.

I'm glad someone else said this as not many South Dakota athletes are filling the rosters anyway. If Augie moved up the number of South Dakota athletes would go down on their rosters.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I think it is mildly funny that people look at Creighton's enrollment as an argument against Augie moving DI. Creighton didn't always have 8300 students...

I think it would be crazy to think they could replicate what Creighton has done with their program. Nebraska as a state is extremely supportive of their collegiate teams. Creighton finished 4th in men's attendance this year. Nebraska men's basketball finished 11th...and they are the only power 5 team without a tournament victory. Nebraska football has the longest sell out streak in the nation. Husker women's volleyball leads the nation in attendance. Husker women's basketball last year (16-17) was below 500 and finished 17th in the nation for attendance. Look at Omaha as a sports town and the attendance they put up for the CWS or the last 2 Olympic SwIm Trials....they are event driven, and Creighton basketball is an event.

To look at things and say we are going to follow the Creighton model just isn't realistic.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I think it would be crazy to think they could replicate what Creighton has done with their program. Nebraska as a state is extremely supportive of their collegiate teams. Creighton finished 4th in men's attendance this year. Nebraska men's basketball finished 11th...and they are the only power 5 team without a tournament victory. Nebraska football has the longest sell out streak in the nation. Husker women's volleyball leads the nation in attendance. Husker women's basketball last year (16-17) was below 500 and finished 17th in the nation for attendance. Look at Omaha as a sports town and the attendance they put up for the CWS or the last 2 Olympic SwIm Trials....they are event driven, and Creighton basketball is an event.

To look at things and say we are going to follow the Creighton model just isn't realistic.

Not surprising considering they have no professional sports to compete with. Still, I think you consumed too much of the Nebraska coolaide.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Still, I think you consumed too much of the Nebraska coolaide.

Tell me how you figure that. Never said any of the teams are good, just said that their attendance was. Don't let a blind hatred of all things Nebraska affect what you read.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Tell me how you figure that. Never said any of the teams are good, just said that their attendance was. Don't let a blind hatred of all things Nebraska affect what you read.

I don't hate as actually have been a Husker football fan for a long time other than when Peleni was there and when they play the Jack's. Definitely a hysteria around football. In terms of Creighton I give them credit for creating a brand and a event around their Mens basketball. I just dont think it's "crazy to imagine Augie over time could create some similar synergy in Sioux Falls for basketball.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I don't hate as actually have been a Husker football fan for a long time other than when Peleni was there and when they play the Jack's. Definitely a hysteria around football. In terms of Creighton I give them credit for creating a brand and a event around their Mens basketball. I just dont think it's "crazy to imagine Augie over time could create some similar synergy in Sioux Falls for basketball.

I won't say it can't happen because anything is possible but it is still an extremely long shot at best. Creighton is in a metro area of 900,000. While their undergraduate population may not be huge, their alumni base is full of doctors and lawyers who have the opportunity to stay close and support their alma mater thanks to being in Omaha and the proximity of Lincoln.

When they took off as a basketball school, they were the only D-1 game in town. By putting 17,000+ in the seats they were able to blow by their MVC counterparts and sink more and more into their program creating even more separation. For those of you who view the MVC and Summit as equals, picture the monetary advantage a team in the Summit would have if they had that type of attendance every night.

The way I see it, the city is much smaller, the alumni base is much smaller, the revenue opportunities are much smaller and the passion for the school is much less. Could all this change over time? I suppose so, but I don't see it.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I won't say it can't happen because anything is possible but it is still an extremely long shot at best. Creighton is in a metro area of 900,000. While their undergraduate population may not be huge, their alumni base is full of doctors and lawyers who have the opportunity to stay close and support their alma mater thanks to being in Omaha and the proximity of Lincoln.

When they took off as a basketball school, they were the only D-1 game in town. By putting 17,000+ in the seats they were able to blow by their MVC counterparts and sink more and more into their program creating even more separation. For those of you who view the MVC and Summit as equals, picture the monetary advantage a team in the Summit would have if they had that type of attendance every night.

The way I see it, the city is much smaller, the alumni base is much smaller, the revenue opportunities are much smaller and the passion for the school is much less. Could all this change over time? I suppose so, but I don't see it.

You mention a key factor, population 900,000. Metro SF is what? 200000? That’s If you count the chickens in Tea. This fever of being like area down the road seems to be what is driving this notion of Augustana going D1. Some in SF are going to have to make the long and burdensome 55 mile journey for a few more years for D1 sports. I have lived in urban areas where fighting traffic is no fun. Having conveniences blocks away is ideal. I now enjoy one horse Arlington where if there is dozen parked cars on Main Street, there something big going on.