Augie to the Summit?

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

This thread is already longer than it deserves (at this time), but since I've been absent from the board for awhile (personal situations), I would be remiss if I didn't chime in (mostly with a collection of facts, already disbursed among the earlier posts, and all with just IMHO):

1. If Augie decides to go D-I, they WILL keep football if is is possible for them to get into the Pioneer League (which would probably happen). Welcome to a league (that now does get an autobid, since 2013) with schools in California, Iowa, North Carolina (2), Florida (2), Indiana (2), Ohio,, New York and Kentucky. San Diego has won or tied for the league championship four of the last five years (with a student body of 8,908, and a huge metro area). That will keep K-O alive.

2. They will need to get an invitation from the Summit League. Zimmer mentioned in at least one meme, that SDSU and USD fans would not like to see Augie in the Summit, over fear and jealousy. I would not be against it for any other reason than it carves the D-I corporate support up in a third way, and that is tough enough, given the split in support already without the D-I push. Obviously, a sixth I-29 member would be eyed positively in many ways. And beware of UND and NDSU participants who would love to see Augie get in the league, with 3 SD members within 50-100 miles of each other, fighting over the eligible-level athletes in SD, northern Nebraska, southwestern Minnesota, and northwestern Iowa, to supplement those we each pick up in other areas further away.

3. Creighton is mentioned as a model. Creighton has 8,300 students, has been D-I for a long time, is in a metro area of 924,000 and a huge corporate base. It gained it's Omaha-leading support because UNO was never allowed by Nebraska to grow into a major power (which finally led to UNO dropping football and moving to D-I).

There is no doubt there is a burning desire among a lot of SF movers and shakers, to envision a "Creighton" in their community. It will be very interesting to see if they jump into the pool.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Ok then,you are truly not interested in Track and Field,I respect your preferences.

You're right. It's not a sport unless there's a ball. Therefore the only thing in track and field that's a sport is the shot put.

[filbert]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Presented here, an Official Filbert Rant:

In all honesty, I remain convinced that somebody like Concordia-St. Paul would be a much, much, much better Summit League D-II move-up candidate than Augustana would be. I could see Douple talking to C-SP. I don't see the benefit to the Summit League in even talking to Augie. I really don't. I don't see the benefit to SDSU or USD in being in favor of inviting Augie (as opposed to C-SP or many other potential regional D-II move-up candidates) to the Summit League. I don't see it AT ALL.

IMHO the MSP market is big enough that a private school like C-SP in D-I there could possibly make some noise. The Summit League via SDSU and USD already has Sioux Falls locked up tight for what it's worth, and despite the best efforts of some of the more parochial, myopic Sioux Falls media. (*cough* Gaskins *cough*) what makes good radio talk show and newspaper circulation fodder is not always what makes good solid sense in the real world.

If people take off the Sioux Falls-colored glasses (and blinders) they would see that D-I is far different than D-II is. D-II is essentially regional. D-I is essentially national. That was why SDSU went to D-I . . . it was in fact a national institution (or an institution with national aspirations, anyway).

Is Augie an institution with national aspirations? For what? What does it want to be known for? Athletic programs? Is that it?

Augie is a D-II school. Period. Full Stop. End of discussion. (This does not mean that they might not try to go D-I anyway, however. People do stupid things all the time, in case you haven't noticed.)

Augie has benefited hugely (via lack of competition and via access to some marginal regional D-I athletes that don't get recruited by SDSU/USD/NDSU, as well as the occasional transfer from the D-I regional schools) from the collapse of the NCC and the departure of the state schools to D-I. Those benefits go away if Augie attempts a D-I move.

And Augie boosters are whistling past the graveyard if they think they'll lock up the Sioux Falls "casual sports fans" as soon as they move up. As I've pointed out before, check out the market share that UMKC has in Kansas City. Granted, it would be difficult to perform worse in a market than UMKC has in Kansas City, but on the other hand, Allen Fieldhouse on the University of Kansas campus in Lawrence is 44 miles from downtown Kansas City. KC is a KU town, with large contingents of K-State and Mizzou, smaller contingents of Nebraska, Iowa State, and then you get down to the MIAA schools, Missouri State, and the more distant Big 12 schools. UMKC gets NO notice here.

For reference:
Downtown Sioux Falls is 59 miles from Frost Arena.
Downtown Sioux Falls is 63 miles from the SCSC in Vermillion.

The Sioux Falls parochialists might want to pretend that Sioux Falls, Brookings and Vermillion are totally different markets. Those parochialists would be wrong. Now, it's true that KWSN has a ridiculously weak signal strength, but there's this thing called the Internet, and smart phones, and all that stuff.

Augie to D-I is simply stupid. It might happen anyway, but that doesn't make it any less stupid.

/end rant

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

This thread is already longer than it deserves (at this time), but since I've been absent from the board for awhile (personal situations), I would be remiss if I didn't chime in (mostly with a collection of facts, already disbursed among the earlier posts, and all with just IMHO):

1. If Augie decides to go D-I, they WILL keep football if is is possible for them to get into the Pioneer League (which would probably happen). Welcome to a league (that now does get an autobid, since 2013) with schools in California, Iowa, North Carolina (2), Florida (2), Indiana (2), Ohio,, New York and Kentucky. San Diego has won or tied for the league championship four of the last five years (with a student body of 8,908, and a huge metro area). That will keep K-O alive.

2. They will need to get an invitation from the Summit League. Zimmer mentioned in at least one meme, that SDSU and USD fans would not like to see Augie in the Summit, over fear and jealousy. I would not be against it for any other reason than it carves the D-I corporate support up in a third way, and that is tough enough, given the split in support already without the D-I push. Obviously, a sixth I-29 member would be eyed positively in many ways. And beware of UND and NDSU participants who would love to see Augie get in the league, with 3 SD members within 50-100 miles of each other, fighting over the eligible-level athletes in SD, northern Nebraska, southwestern Minnesota, and northwestern Iowa, to supplement those we each pick up in other areas further away.

3. Creighton is mentioned as a model. Creighton has 8,300 students, has been D-I for a long time, is in a metro area of 924,000 and a huge corporate base. It gained it's Omaha-leading support because UNO was never allowed by Nebraska to grow into a major power (which finally led to UNO dropping football and moving to D-I).

There is no doubt there is a burning desire among a lot of SF movers and shakers, to envision a "Creighton" in their community. It will be very interesting to see if they jump into the pool.

Good to have you back! I have no problem at all with what you posted. Creighton may not be an ideal model to follow, but I think Augustana needs to find a private school that made move to D1 and they have a population of 300,000 or less. Even that criteria might not be exactly what is needed. Each institution making the move, the history is different, and so it will be with Augustana. How their move affects our recruiting is another question without an answer.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I think it is mildly funny that people look at Creighton's enrollment as an argument against Augie moving DI. Creighton didn't always have 8300 students...

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Presented here, an Official Filbert Rant:

In all honesty, I remain convinced that somebody like Concordia-St. Paul would be a much, much, much better Summit League D-II move-up candidate than Augustana would be. I could see Douple talking to C-SP. I don't see the benefit to the Summit League in even talking to Augie. ... -I
/end rant

You make excellent points throughout your rant. The vision of the Sioux Falls media stops at about the first tier of neighboring towns. And four days in March - the Summit League basketball tournament - has become the be-all, end-all for some in the Sioux Falls media and for a few Augie and community boosters. Member schools have got to have much greater vision than that.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I think it is mildly funny that people look at Creighton's enrollment as an argument against Augie moving DI. Creighton didn't always have 8300 students...

No they did not. To use them as a model might be a mistake. Sioux Falls, though growing is long way from a million people. I am going beginning to think Augustana should study Centunary. What worked and what failed.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

No they did not. To use them as a model might be a mistake. Sioux Falls, though growing is long way from a million people. I am going beginning to think Augustana should study Centunary. What worked and what failed.

Don't disagree. However, I'm old enough to remember Creighton fighting tooth and nail to capture a basketball audience in the state of Nebraska. Creighton has more than tripled their basketball attendance in the last 20 years. If Augie could do the same in the next 20 years the Premier Center wouldn't hold their crowds.

Centenary is in Shreveport, which is a terrible comparison to Sioux Falls in almost every way except the number of warm bodies within the city limits.

[da_coach]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I have no idea how feasible this would be for Augustana. If they do it, it could wind up being a huge mistake.

But... I happen to think the smoke here is caused by some fire. And I think the new President and new AD are going to certainly try to move up.

I'm not sure when. It might be 5 years? I have no clue. But it sure seems like it's a possibility.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

There isn't really another private DI west of the Mississippi that I can think of that fits Augie's profile. Gonzaga, with 7k students (5k undergrads) in the Spokane metro of 500-700k (depending on how you qualify metro), would probably be the closest. University of Portland has 3.5k students in a metro of 2.3 million. University of Seattle has about 4.5k undergrads, in a metro of 3.3 million. Each of those three has an endowment between 140 and 210 million.

Abilene Christian University in Abilene, TX has about 3.7k undergrad students, but an endowment of 380 million. The metro area is about 165k.

Bradley, in Peoria, IL, has 4.4k students in a metro of 373k. They have an endowment of about 380 million.

I won't go into the schools back east or on the California coast, because that is not a good comparison to the demographics and population density of the midwest/west.

Point being, Augie is likely to be at least 3 times smaller than any other private in the western half of the US, currently has an endowment about 1/3rd (or more) of those schools, in a metro that is smaller than all of the above (except ACU). Even with the alleged 100 million gift, it places them at the bottom of that list in endowment, and they're still dealing with an enrollment of 1600. Even if enrollment were to boom as a result of moving D1, it isn't going to double. And if it did, that would create a huge cost with adding the needed infastructure to support 1600 more students.

There just isn't a comparable school to look at with this potential move up that has similar endowment, in a similar metro, with a comparable number of students.

I think the Sioux Falls media hyping this move up may be a product of their ignorance of the national college athletic landscape. The context of this move in a regional or national sense is being ignored or overlooked by the media promoting it.

[JackJD]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

What would happen if people stopped speculating on Augie moving to D-1? I'm willing to bet you'd hear crickets and notice that no one with authority at Augie is claiming Augie will move to D-1. But, I don't want people to stop speculating about Augie going to D-1 because it appears from recent developments in this thread that the next group to get bashed are us track and field fans. The only sports are those with balls? That's the start of a lot of bad jokes!. Tell that to our wrestlers: you won't have any arms left to bounce or throw those balls.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

What would happen if people stopped speculating on Augie moving to D-1? I'm willing to bet you'd hear crickets and notice that no one with authority at Augie is claiming Augie will move to D-1. But, I don't want people to stop speculating about Augie going to D-1 because it appears from recent developments in this thread that the next group to get bashed are us track and field fans. The only sports are those with balls? That's the start of a lot of bad jokes!. Tell that to our wrestlers: you won't have any arms left to bounce or throw those balls.

We haven't mentioned golf or rodeo yet. I once saw a bumper sticker that said something to the effect that the main difference between the two is that it only takes one ball to play golf.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

We haven't mentioned golf or rodeo yet. I once saw a bumper sticker that said something to the effect that the main difference between the two is that it only takes one ball to play golf.

Good point! Augie should get a waiver to move up in only golf, bull riding and shot put. Four balls for three sports. They could handle that.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Conference politics have been mentioned, but have not really been discussed head on. What would happen if before a meeting of the conference governing board two (or more) schools that don't have the word Dakota in their name whispered to everyone in the hall before entering the meeting room that they really don't dislike the Dakotas, but if they have to make another trip here every year that it will be time to look elsewhere for a conference home? Would admitting Augie even come up for discussion? Would the I-90 schools take one new member and alienate two? If those members actually followed through and left for other pastures, would that kill the Summit's chances for future expansion into areas to the east, south, and southwest of the Dakotas?

What if the two South Dakota schools whisper that they don't need more D-I competition for the few athletes and sponsorship dollars in South Dakota and would gladly form a pact to seek membership in another conference together? Would the discussion of whether or not to invite Augie to the Summit even come up at that meeting.

I believe that Augustana University should be in control of its own destiny. However, maybe there are reasons unknown to us, and perhaps forever unspoken, that will prevent the Summit governing board from putting the addition of Augustana on the agenda. Maybe the title of this thread should be Augie to the WAC?

[jacksfan29]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Conference politics have been mentioned, but have not really been discussed head on. What would happen if before a meeting of the conference governing board two (or more) schools that don't have the word Dakota in their name whispered to everyone in the hall before entering the meeting room that they really don't dislike the Dakotas, but if they have to make another trip here every year that it will be time to look elsewhere for a conference home? Would admitting Augie even come up for discussion? Would the I-90 schools take one new member and alienate two? If those members actually followed through and left for other pastures, would that kill the Summit's chances for future expansion into areas to the east, south, and southwest of the Dakotas?

What if the two South Dakota schools whisper that they don't need more D-I competition for the few athletes and sponsorship dollars in South Dakota and would gladly form a pact to seek membership in another conference together? Would the discussion of whether or not to invite Augie to the Summit even come up at that meeting.

I believe that Augustana University should be in control of its own destiny. However, maybe there are reasons unknown to us, and perhaps forever unspoken, that will prevent the Summit governing board from putting the addition of Augustana on the agenda. Maybe the title of this thread should be Augie to the WAC?

I find it interesting that so many Sioux Falls media, and those who want Augustana to move up (even some of our own fans) think Augie is a shoe in for Summit membership if they choose to move up. I'm not sure that is true. I can think of a number of schools who would likely vote against the addition. Beginning with DU and ending with WIU and ORU.