Augie to the Summit?

[jacksfan29]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I had a brief conversation with Ron Lenz, former SID, the other day and he was telling me essentially the same in that private schools have wiggle room in charging tuition. I had wondered about USF but like you said the bottom line is very intact. If there is one thing bothering me, its this attitude that everything has to happen in Sioux Falls and that's why they got to have a D1 school because the SL tourney is in SF. With blinders on SDSU had nothing to do with bringing the SL to SF. Kind of crazy and selfish thinking, but we shall see. Maybe the rally in Sturgis can be moved to SF

Don't give Krabbenhoft any ideas.

They may have room to fudge their tuition, but at 1,600 undergrads the school will have an issue paying their bills eventually. Drake is mentioned, but Drake has almost 6,000 students in a metro area of almost 700,000. A far cry from Augustana's under 2,000 students in a metro area, with a lot of rural poor residents, of almost 250,000.

There were several portions of Zimmer's article I found interesting. Augie is going D1 to take advantage of one weekend per year? The SLT? Yes they found success in D2, after NDSU, SDSU, USD and UND left. Even prior to USD and UND leaving Augie was an average D2 University. Football? I suggest if they move up they drop it entirely. Same with wrestling. Plus, there is no guarantee they get into the Summit. Herbster did mention in an earlier article they had spoken about some former NCC foes moving up. I highly doubt Augustana was one of those schools. It has long been known Douple has had his eye on Mankato and St. Cloud. I really have my doubts that either SDSU or USD want Augustana moving. Corporate dollars are important to the two schools.

But, it is Sioux Falls, the center of the universe, king of me too. Led by the Krabbenhoft's of the world it is possible Augustana gets talked into something they are not prepared for, financially or institutionally.

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Don't give Krabbenhoft any ideas.

I pretty sure Krabbenhoft knows all about this and so does a bunch of other people. I dont think we are selling him any secrets.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

This is interesting because I attend a fair amount of Lindenwood games and the rumors are that they're either going D1 or leaving the MIAA and going to the Great Lakes Valley to save travel
money. Their AD (who has a VP title and came from the MAC) is pretty impressive but stated that he'd never seen an athletic program like LU's. They sponsor 55 athletic programs, 27 in the NCAA and the rest in strange "lifestyle" sports like billiards and shotgunning. Who knew. Half time shows consist of a 30 piece marching band and literally hundreds of dancers, cheer leaders and pomponners many of whom get scholarships. Their web page says they have 1750 student athletes, many who receive scholarships. The last stated NCAA report I could find from two years ago showed an athletic budget of $14,832,807. I assume there's also a few million in "lifestyle" scholarships which are off the books.


The school was saved by an eccentric (to put it mildly) CEO who was paid almost $700,000 twenty years ago and rebuilt a failing girls school. He always stated he had 14,000 students but he didn't count in a normal accepted manner. Still hard to figure out exactly who's up there but Wikipedia says 8697, so let's go with that. If you accept that, then LU is twice the size of USF and Augustanta combined, is in a county which is roughly half the size of the state of South Dakota (400,000) with no other college athletics and is the only football program college or professional in a metro area of 2.8 million. These are things that really impressed Jeb Stugart when he took the job. Don't know if he's still impressed after getting knocked about the MIAA, but one program for 2.8 million vs. 2 D1, 5 D2, and 3 NAIA (4 if you add Mt Marty) programs for 850,000.

Some thoughts from this comparison--

-Athletic budgets are influenced by scholarships stated in terms of "rack rate" , but at least in terms of private schools it doesn't take much in order rack up dollar amounts that are deceiving when you compare them to public colleges. Kind of like looking at the door card on your hotel door and finding that the $70 hotel room that you booked through Hotwire is really a $200 hotel room. Still-- $15 million seems like a lot of money for a D2 program. I think their coaching salaries are pretty high, although I can't find specifics. Would think that Stugart is paid close to $200K.

-LU will never get any press in this market, unless someone shows up with a gun at a game. Never see a thing about SIUE, makes UMKC look like a big deal. Not so Augie.

-Even with fifteen million for NCAA sports, plus off the books for billiard scholarships, Lindenwood would seem marginal. I have read mentions on (I think) the WIU board of them being a travel partner. They'd probably have to drop football (they might if Stugart can't compete) and what would they do with the 258 students they show participating in football on their NCAA reports, they'd have to find other sports for them since their purpose is to get as many people on teams as they can. They'd have to add lots of billiard tables and roller hockey rinks.

In case you think I'm exaggerating about offering 55 different sports.

http://www.lindenwood.edu/athletics/

[Rabbitball]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Tuition at private schools is much more complex than the above would imply. Essentially no student pays the face value of their tuition. You may remember that USF recently reduced their "tuition" by $10,000 and you can be sure it did not hurt their bottom line. Angie could do the same. So the cost of "tuition" to cover athletes would be much less than what is calculated above by I would guess a few million.

I've always wondered if that might be the case, thank you for confirming. Obviously my example is simplistic but it does show how much of a gap they have to cover. I'm sure there's any number of ways to fudge the numbers at a private school that doesn't have to reveal finances to the public.

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

They sponsor 55 athletic programs, 27 in the NCAA and the rest in strange "lifestyle" sports like billiards and shotgunning. Who knew.

I did a lot of shotgunning in college, to think I could have gotten a scholarship to drink. Maybe I did go to the wrong school.

[jakejc795]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I did a lot of shotgunning in college, to think I could have gotten a scholarship to drink. Maybe I did go to the wrong school.

Hopefully you'd have confined your "shotgunning" to the off days, as it might have caused you to miss a few clays and risk your scholarship otherwise

[jakejc795]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Football? I suggest if they move up they drop it entirely. Same with wrestling. Plus, there is no guarantee they get into the Summit. Herbster did mention in an earlier article they had spoken about some former NCC foes moving up. I highly doubt Augustana was one of those schools. It has long been known Douple has had his eye on Mankato and St. Cloud. I really have my doubts that either SDSU or USD want Augustana moving. Corporate dollars are important to the two schools.

But, it is Sioux Falls, the center of the universe, king of me too. Led by the Krabbenhoft's of the world it is possible Augustana gets talked into something they are not prepared for, financially or institutionally.

Just curious, what would you do with Kirkeby-Over Stadium if football dropped?

Also, do you think USF and Augie would ever consider merging?

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Just curious, what would you do with Kirkeby-Over Stadium if football dropped?

Also, do you think USF and Augie would ever consider merging?

Interesting idea. Pooled college teams, like pooled high school teams or what ever you call it in SD. Or campuses ARE close enough to merge, though I bet that would fly in the face of history. Frankly, I think I would be pissed if I donated to K-O Stadium and it sat unused. I think the NSIC is a pretty good place for Augie to stay, probably one of the top three basketball and top four football conferences. Augie and Northern are two of the crown jewels in D2 basketball.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I did a lot of shotgunning in college, to think I could have gotten a scholarship to drink. Maybe I did go to the wrong school.

Drinking aside, I expect the hundreds of Lion Line, Lionettes, Golden Line, cheerleaders, and the thirty five member marching band to be joined by the male and female shotgun team which will fire volleys into the crowd, as the mens and womens billiard teams hurl balls. All will be on scholarship. What a half time show!

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

http://www.lindenwoodlionssls.com/in...path=lion_line

It's a sport! Didn't you know?

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Just curious, what would you do with Kirkeby-Over Stadium if football dropped?

Also, do you think USF and Augie would ever consider merging?

Lutherans merge with Baptists? When pigs fly! With meager affiliation with ELCA, Augustana might be open to this idea! I do not know the arrangement USF has with the American Baptist Church. USF does have seminary that trains clergy. It would be a Board of Directors decision which would have to be better reasons than athletic programs. That looks like a hard sell to me.

[Grizzled_Jack]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Lutherans merge with Baptists? When pigs fly! With meager affiliation with ELCA, Augustana might be open to this idea! I do not know the arrangement USF has with the American Baptist Church. USF does have seminary that trains clergy. It would be a Board of Directors decision which would have to be better reasons than athletic programs. That looks like a hard sell to me.

Are those religious ties weakening? Lindenwood has Presbyterian ties but you'd never know it. Forty years ago I taught a couple of classes at Maryville, traditionally Catholic, but they'd hired a Baptist president with perfect, long white teeth. Head of the management department was a former theologian; remember walking up the staircase with him and a life sized Jesus statue was parked, back to us, on a landing. He said, "Had to fire him, he couldn't pull his weight." RC faculty members amused themselves by peppering the SBC prez with Catholic references which he could barely fathom: "Quick, bring me a book on Scholasticism."

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Are those religious ties weakening?Yes they are Lindenwood has Presbyterian ties but you'd never know it. Forty years ago I taught a couple of classes at Maryville, traditionally Catholic, but they'd hired a Baptist president with perfect, long white teeth. Head of the management department was a former theologian; remember walking up the staircase with him and a life sized Jesus statue was parked, back to us, on a landing. He said, "Had to fire him, he couldn't pull his weight." RC faculty members amused themselves by peppering the SBC prez with Catholic references which he could barely fathom: "Quick, bring me a book on Scholasticism."

This is funny, very funny. Many changes have occurred since leaving SDSU. I now get cardiac rehab at the SDSU Wellness Center. You got to have a card to open the gate to the parking lot and you have to give a young lady a membership number to be admitted officially to the building. Its like a prison. It was not like this when I left for Omaha on a bus, Nov 1, 1965, to enlist in the US Navy. You of course know that, but I mention for the benefit of the young ones.They had the draft back then. I dont think I could keep up with the current students at SDSU or anywhere else. Getting very old.

[jakejc795]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Lutherans merge with Baptists? When pigs fly! With meager affiliation with ELCA, Augustana might be open to this idea! I do not know the arrangement USF has with the American Baptist Church. USF does have seminary that trains clergy. It would be a Board of Directors decision which would have to be better reasons than athletic programs. That looks like a hard sell to me.

Somewhat similar mergers have occurred elsewhere, and the linked article mentions that seminaries sometimes struggle with declining enrollments and financial strain.

Then I suppose the question becomes what happens to USF's stadium, although that location seems more conducive to residential development.

[jakejc795]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

This is funny, very funny. Many changes have occurred since leaving SDSU. I now get cardiac rehab at the SDSU Wellness Center. You got to have a card to open the gate to the parking lot and you have to give a young lady a membership number to be admitted officially to the building. Its like a prison. It was not like this when I left for Omaha on a bus, Nov 1, 1965, to enlist in the US Navy. You of course know that, but I mention for the benefit of the young ones.They had the draft back then. I dont think I could keep up with the current students at SDSU or anywhere else. Getting very old.

Heck, it wasn't even like that when I was a student less than a decade ago, but given recent campus shootings, etc., additional security measures seem prudent.