Augie to the Summit?

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Don't look now Argus has a article about augie and the D-1 discussion. as many of you think Zimmer is a huge homer and pushing for it, this is a pretty good read that seems fair and accurate.

Do you have a link?
I am curious

[goon]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Do you have a link?
I am curious

no, you have to go to the website and find it the old fashioned way.

[TK22867]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Don't look now Argus has a article about augie and the D-1 discussion. as many of you think Zimmer is a huge homer and pushing for it, this is a pretty good read that seems fair and accurate.

Kudos to Zimmer, it is a really well-written article with good research. Many of the items in the article have been discussed at length on this board. A couple items stood out to me:

1. "Augustana’s athletic budget is $10.3 million. SDSU’s is over $20 million." At a conservative 5% annual return on a potential $150M donation, that's going to generate $7.5M per year. That decreases the gap between budgets considerably.
2. "Morton was at North Dakota when they made their own transition to Division 1." If you're considering make the jump, you might as well hire an AD that has been through the experience already.

[Mr_Tibbs]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I read the article, and I think it's mostly fair. He makes a big deal about how much of the heavy lifting was done by SDSU and USD with regards to building a D1 atmosphere in the state, which is accurate.

I think he still glosses over the shear difference in type and size of institution between Augie and USD/SDSU though. There's no mention of the benefit Augie has had with their scheduling format with Friday/Saturday games (which would go away in the Summit), and the large difference in number of alumni between the three schools. It's a fair article, but I think he is really pumping up the potential of Augie to control the "casual fan" market in Sioux Falls (which they may very well be able to do) as justification for the move. At the same time, he doesn't talk much about how difficult it could be for Augie if they don't reach that market, which is also conceivable, especially if the wins-losses don't weather the transition well.

[goon]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I read the article, and I think it's mostly fair. He makes a big deal about how much of the heavy lifting was done by SDSU and USD with regards to building a D1 atmosphere in the state, which is accurate.

I think he still glosses over the shear difference in type and size of institution between Augie and USD/SDSU though. There's no mention of the benefit Augie has had with their scheduling format with Friday/Saturday games (which would go away in the Summit), and the shear difference in number of alumni between the three schools. It's a fair article, but I think he is really pumping up the potential of Augie to control the "casual fan" market on Sioux Falls (which they may very well be able to do) as justification for the move. At the same time, he doesn't talk much about how difficult it could be for Augie if they don't reach that market, which is also conceivable, especially if the wins-losses don't weather the transition well.

To be fair though he points out if they make the move, its risky, a few schools jump and SDSU gets MVC, augie is probably the odd man out with no good options.

[goon]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

https://www.argusleader.com/story/sp...eap/511148002/

[Roy]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

An observation and a request!

The SDSU Foundation uses 4% as a prudent rate of return. That is a responsible number IMO.

Wake me when Augustana University (not the Argus, not the "big donors") contacts the Summit League!

Go Jacks!!

[Kemo]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

https://www.argusleader.com/story/sp...eap/511148002/

I think the article by Matt was pretty good, but one thing that's been bothering me about the discussion on the whole is when they make straight comparisons of SDSU's and Augie's budgets (during the transition and now). A dollar goes a heck of a lot farther at a large, public university as opposed to a small private school mainly due to tuition costs between the two.

The real metric that needs to be considered (and I have yet to see it brought up by anyone in the media) is what percentage of Augie's budget is tied up in scholarship costs compared to SDSU/USD.

The tuition cost in the 2017-18 school year for an undergraduate at Augustana was $39,666 (including room and board). The school estimates that the total cost of attendance is $45,458, so add that in as well if they want to offer full cost of attendance like all the other Dakota DI universities.

SDSU's 2018-19 undergraduate tuition is $16,992 for SD/IA/NE residents (and legacy), $17,652 for MN, and $20,382 for out-of-state/non reciprocity students. This includes room and board plus books.

I'm not going to dig far enough to pull up how many total athletic scholarships SDSU and Augie have (during the transition and now), but it's more than safe to say that the Augustana has a significantly higher percentage of their athletic budget dedicated to scholarships. Clenz, a prominent contributor on AGS, estimated that Augie spends nearly 40% of their budget on athlete financial aid alone, and he is pretty reliable with data. When it comes to paying coaches, travel, facility management, and so forth, private has a lot less money than public on a dollar to dollar basis, so comparing the two athletic budgets can be very misleading.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I think the article by Matt was pretty good, but one thing that's been bothering me about the discussion on the whole is when they make straight comparisons of SDSU's and Augie's budgets (during the transition and now). A dollar goes a heck of a lot farther at a large, public university as opposed to a small private school mainly due to tuition costs between the two.

The real metric that needs to be considered (and I have yet to see it brought up by anyone in the media) is what percentage of Augie's budget is tied up in scholarship costs compared to SDSU/USD.

The tuition cost in the 2017-18 school year for an undergraduate at Augustana was $39,666 (including room and board). The school estimates that the total cost of attendance is $45,458, so add that in as well if they want to offer full cost of attendance like all the other Dakota DI universities.

SDSU's 2018-19 undergraduate tuition is $16,992 for SD/IA/NE residents (and legacy), $17,652 for MN, and $20,382 for out-of-state/non reciprocity students. This includes room and board plus books.

I'm not going to dig far enough to pull up how many total athletic scholarships SDSU and Augie have (during the transition and now), but it's more than safe to say that the Augustana has a significantly higher percentage of their athletic budget dedicated to scholarships. Clenz, a prominent contributor on AGS, estimated that Augie spends nearly 40% of their budget on athlete financial aid alone, and he is pretty reliable with data. When it comes to paying coaches, travel, facility management, and so forth, private has a lot less money than public on a dollar to dollar basis, so comparing the two athletic budgets can be very misleading.

Good points.

I also find it interesting that Augie's meteoric rise in athletics coincided with SDSU and NDSU going DI. I firmly believe that's not a coincidence.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I read it, and I don't see the Matt Zimmer Augustana homer vibes some of you see.

[MontanaRabbit]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I read it, and I don't see the Matt Zimmer Augustana homer vibes some of you see.

I don't really either. It's mostly fair but maybe a bit incomplete as pointed out by Kemo. Also, it briefly mentions the enrollment but doesn't mention where that would rank them across all DI schools. Having under 2000 undergrad students would have to rank close to the bottom of DI which would mean Augie depends on a large percentage of casual fans to make this thing work. Are the numbers there in Sioux Falls? Considering you have SDSU and USD as already established programs and also competition from local high schools and USF.

[Rabbitball]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

The tuition cost in the 2017-18 school year for an undergraduate at Augustana was $39,666 (including room and board). The school estimates that the total cost of attendance is $45,458, so add that in as well if they want to offer full cost of attendance like all the other Dakota DI universities.

SDSU's 2018-19 undergraduate tuition is $16,992 for SD/IA/NE residents (and legacy), $17,652 for MN, and $20,382 for out-of-state/non reciprocity students. This includes room and board plus books.

I don't know if we can find exactly how many scholarships these schools actually give out, but it's safe to say not all sports are fully funded. But for the sake of argument let's say all sports are fully funded and see where it goes.

Men:
Baseball 11.7
Basketball 13
CC/TF 12.6
Football 63
Golf 4.5
Tennis 4.5
Wrestling 9.9
Swim/Dive(SDSU only)9.9

Women:
Basketball 15
CC/TF 18
Golf 6
Soccer 14
Softball 12
Swim/Dive 14
Tennis 8
Volleyball 12
Equestrian(SDSU) 15

Total scholarships possible
SDSU 243.1
Augie 218.2

So lets take the high end of 20k each for SDSU. Total cost of scholarships is 4.862M. Saying 45.5k for each at augie is 9.93M. Take away 63 for football at augie leaves 155.2 x 45.5k each is still 7.061M. They would have to cut down another 49 scholarships to get to SDSUs level of spending. And that's still assuming full funding at SDSU.



Also, I'm a loser with way too much time on my hands

[Cowbell]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Former SDSU President Peggy Miller has been a longtime friend to Augie's current chief, Stephanie Herseth Sandlin. As we all know, the move to DI during Peggy's presidency transformed SDSU. Ms. Herseth Sandlin is young, extremely bright and has developed a tremendous network of influential people within the region. There's no doubt that she would want to leave the type of legacy at Augie that her friend (and mentor) left at SDSU.

[Rabbit74]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

I don't know if we can find exactly how many scholarships these schools actually give out, but it's safe to say not all sports are fully funded. But for the sake of argument let's say all sports are fully funded and see where it goes.

Men:
Baseball 11.7
Basketball 13
CC/TF 12.6
Football 63
Golf 4.5
Tennis 4.5
Wrestling 9.9
Swim/Dive(SDSU only)9.9

Women:
Basketball 15
CC/TF 18
Golf 6
Soccer 14
Softball 12
Swim/Dive 14
Tennis 8
Volleyball 12
Equestrian(SDSU) 15

Total scholarships possible
SDSU 243.1
Augie 218.2

So lets take the high end of 20k each for SDSU. Total cost of scholarships is 4.862M. Saying 45.5k for each at augie is 9.93M. Take away 63 for football at augie leaves 155.2 x 45.5k each is still 7.061M. They would have to cut down another 49 scholarships to get to SDSUs level of spending. And that's still assuming full funding at SDSU.



Also, I'm a loser with way too much time on my hands

Tuition at private schools is much more complex than the above would imply. Essentially no student pays the face value of their tuition. You may remember that USF recently reduced their "tuition" by $10,000 and you can be sure it did not hurt their bottom line. Angie could do the same. So the cost of "tuition" to cover athletes would be much less than what is calculated above by I would guess a few million.

For example, Student aid at Drake which has a higher tuition and fees structure than Augie was $4.5 million for the last year reported compared to SDSU's $4.1 million. Drake is in the pioneer league and has a similar number of athletes as Augie would have. This is based on data from the following equity in athletics data site. https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

[Nidaros]

Re: Augie to the Summit?

Tuition at private schools is much more complex than the above would imply. Essentially no student pays the face value of their tuition. You may remember that USF recently reduced their "tuition" by $10,000 and you can be sure it did not hurt their bottom line. Angie could do the same. So the cost of "tuition" to cover athletes would be much less than what is calculated above by I would guess a few million.

For example, Student aid at Drake which has a higher tuition and fees structure than Augie was $4.5 million for the last year reported compared to SDSU's $4.1 million. Drake is in the pioneer league and has a similar number of athletes as Augie would have. This is based on data from the following equity in athletics data site. https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

I had a brief conversation with Ron Lenz, former SID, the other day and he was telling me essentially the same in that private schools have wiggle room in charging tuition. I had wondered about USF but like you said the bottom line is very intact. If there is one thing bothering me, its this attitude that everything has to happen in Sioux Falls and that's why they got to have a D1 school because the SL tourney is in SF. With blinders on SDSU had nothing to do with bringing the SL to SF. Kind of crazy and selfish thinking, but we shall see. Maybe the rally in Sturgis can be moved to SF