Summit MBB 2017-18

[SUPERBUNNY]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

So, I think we've established that we have an exceptional offensive team and a below average defensive team.

Call me a relic call me what you will, say I'm old-fashioned and over the hill. When I analyze something and find where the weakest point is and work on that until it isn't a weakness. Defense is that weakness for this team. I don't care if we are "a scoring team", a "big physical B1G team", or a "four corners team. If you are weak on defense then that needs to improve. Sure Jenkins can get better at it and he will. The effort defensively needs to get better from everyone.

Life as a scoring team is great as a scoring team when the rock is going through the hoop. When it isn't you better be able to dig in and show some grit and play some nasty defense or you will get beat soundly. That is what happened against Missouri State. Also, when we played Colorado, they came into the game struggling mightily on offense (28% from field in their previous game) and our lack of defense allowed them to get to the basket for some easy buckets which got them going. If you want to be a great team you can't let that happen. They started rolling and we ran out of gas.

EDIT: Would like to add that I love the fast-paced offense we play now. Always thought we should have done more of it under Nagy when we had the horses. Just don't ask me to believe you can't be good at both ends. That is how you become great!

Like many, I'm in the camp that this team absolutely has the chance to be the best in school history and has the potential to not only make the tournament but win games in it. Play defense with the intensity that we had against Wichita State and it can happen. They played a very tough non-conference schedule which will benefit them in the long run. Now it is time to hunker down and get nasty in the Summit League and show everyone what they are made of. They either will or they won't.

SUPERBUNNY

[SoDakJack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Because pace of play varies so greatly, points allowed per possession is a more accurate measure of defense than points allowed per game.

KenPom Rankings of Points per 100 Possessions:

#83 - USD - 98.9
#92 - NDSU - 99.7
#130 - SDSU - 103.9
#189 - Western Ill - 104.5

[BTownJack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Because pace of play varies so greatly, points allowed per possession is a more accurate measure of defense than points allowed per game.

Defensive efficiency rankings:

#60 - USD
#138 - NDSU
#210 - SDSU
#314 - UND

Source: https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-ba...ive-efficiency

[NebraskaJack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Because pace of play varies so greatly, points allowed per possession is a more accurate measure of defense than points allowed per game.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Just to clarify - I'm in the boat of "I just wish we could play better defense." I'm extremely happy with the current state of our team and so I feel if we can guard better than we could be very hard for any Summit League team to beat us.

I would agree with this...I enjoy the style we play. It is free flowing and has a nice rhythm. I have watched some major schools that have every possession micromanaged and the game is a slog.

I think that as the team has found their roles the defense is getting better. It should be much better by the mid-point of the conference schedule. Of course, playing some sub-par teams will make the stats look much better.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Not at all. He's not very good on D and it has even been alluded to from his own teammates in interviews over the course of the season. In the tune of "we will teach him how to play on the defensive end" when asked about what he brings to the team. Takes away nothing from his unbelievable offensive skills for a true freshman and I'm not saying we should bench him - he just has a lot of work to do defensively.

One play that really sticks out to me was the Colorado game in OT. Daum had just missed those two FTs late in the 1st overtime when we were up 4 or 6 points. On that FT miss or shortly thereafter, Colorado grabbed a rebound and had a fast break. We had two guys around the FT line defending the ball...CU made a pass to the elbow extended for an easy layup. That made it a 2 or 4 point game. Jenkins was standing about 5-7 feet outside of the lane on the same side of the lane where their guy made the layup from. He just let him have the lane and didn't even attempt to crash and defend the paint on a fast break. I think it is in 4th or 5th grade when I was taught you sprint back to the lane on fast break defense and then turn around and figure out who to guard.

SDSU ranks #239 of 351 D-I MBB teams in scoring defense. For comparison's sake, USD is #76, NDSU is #91. We got some work to do on that end.
Source: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball...nt/team/146/p5

Wow!!! Jenkins may not be the big flash that I have him pegged to be. I did not watch the Colorado game nor even look at the highlights on YouTube, so this is enlightening. Yes defensively it appears that we have get much better including David Jenkins Jr., my hero.

[BTownJack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

It's human nature to want what you don't have. It's safe to say that most here would like to see the Jacks play better defense. And go to the NDSU board after a loss and there is usually complaining about their running the weave for 25 seconds and then forcing up bad shots. I remember some of that here during the Nagy years. I'm sure that pace of play stats would show that the Jacks play faster than most Summit teams. I would guess a majority of fans would prefer to watch that type of game. And if you want to continue to attract recruits like Jenkins,Jr. constantly playing games with scores in the 60's probably won't help with that.

Just to clarify - I'm in the boat of "I just wish we could play better defense." I'm extremely happy with the current state of our team and so I feel if we can guard better than we could be very hard for any Summit League team to beat us.

[bigticket1]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Not at all. He's not very good on D and it has even been alluded to from his own teammates in interviews over the course of the season. In the tune of "we will teach him how to play on the defensive end" when asked about what he brings to the team. Takes away nothing from his unbelievable offensive skills for a true freshman and I'm not saying we should bench him - he just has a lot of work to do defensively.

One play that really sticks out to me was the Colorado game in OT. Daum had just missed those two FTs late in the 1st overtime when we were up 4 or 6 points. On that FT miss or shortly thereafter, Colorado grabbed a rebound and had a fast break. We had two guys around the FT line defending the ball...CU made a pass to the elbow extended for an easy layup. That made it a 2 or 4 point game. Jenkins was standing about 5-7 feet outside of the lane on the same side of the lane where their guy made the layup from. He just let him have the lane and didn't even attempt to crash and defend the paint on a fast break. I think it is in 4th or 5th grade when I was taught you sprint back to the lane on fast break defense and then turn around and figure out who to guard.

SDSU ranks #239 of 351 D-I MBB teams in scoring defense. For comparison's sake, USD is #76, NDSU is #91. We got some work to do on that end.
Source: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball...nt/team/146/p5

It's human nature to want what you don't have. It's safe to say that most here would like to see the Jacks play better defense. And go to the NDSU board after a loss and there is usually complaining about their running the weave for 25 seconds and then forcing up bad shots. I remember some of that here during the Nagy years. I'm sure that pace of play stats would show that the Jacks play faster than most Summit teams. I would guess a majority of fans would prefer to watch that type of game. And if you want to continue to attract recruits like Jenkins,Jr. constantly playing games with scores in the 60's probably won't help with that.

[Southeast]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

I agree - King is vital to this year's success. However, anyone looking for this team (or next year's - if a certain player returns) to have a top-100 defense is going to be disappointed. Our center's #1 job on defense is to stay out of foul trouble. He can't be challenging everything that comes at him in the paint like a "normal" post - clogging things up and covering for guys that get beat on the dribble. That's going to show up in the stats when he's on the court over 30 minutes per game. I've heard announcers from multiple broadcasts (including WSU, KS and Miss St) alluding to this and saying that they would "do the same" with Daum.

[91jack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

We gotta play better defense as a whole or we will lose some games against teams we probably shouldn't. Tevin is great on D but guys like Jenkins are a liability on that end of the floor.

Let me start this out with I know that Jenkins is a true freshman and SDSU needs both players since they only have 8 able bodies because of redshirts, injuries and defections. If both of these players keep up what they are doing, SDSU is a better team than they were last season.

Would you rather have King or Jenkins this season?

Jenkins scores in bunches. He can hit the outside shot. If we had him last year, we would have been much better. You can't live with your C and PF being your best outside threats like SDSU did last year. He shoots a lot but he scores a lot.

King is better at defense, rebounding, steals and assists. He also has about the best FG% on the team. He doesn't shoot much from outside though.

SDSU is a scoring team (partially because we don't have more Kings on defense) and they need to put up points to win so Jenkins scoring is valuable but if you don't stop anybody, does it matter? I am just glad that King is playing much better and Jenkins came along but I give the edge to King.

[BTownJack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

You guys must be watching a different guy play than I am?

Not at all. He's not very good on D and it has even been alluded to from his own teammates in interviews over the course of the season. In the tune of "we will teach him how to play on the defensive end" when asked about what he brings to the team. Takes away nothing from his unbelievable offensive skills for a true freshman and I'm not saying we should bench him - he just has a lot of work to do defensively.

One play that really sticks out to me was the Colorado game in OT. Daum had just missed those two FTs late in the 1st overtime when we were up 4 or 6 points. On that FT miss or shortly thereafter, Colorado grabbed a rebound and had a fast break. We had two guys around the FT line defending the ball...CU made a pass to the elbow extended for an easy layup. That made it a 2 or 4 point game. Jenkins was standing about 5-7 feet outside of the lane on the same side of the lane where their guy made the layup from. He just let him have the lane and didn't even attempt to crash and defend the paint on a fast break. I think it is in 4th or 5th grade when I was taught you sprint back to the lane on fast break defense and then turn around and figure out who to guard.

SDSU ranks #239 of 351 D-I MBB teams in scoring defense. For comparison's sake, USD is #76, NDSU is #91. We got some work to do on that end.
Source: http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball...nt/team/146/p5

[91jack]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Exactly, you can't win if you don't score. It's the old baseball thing, shake a tree and a 100 gloves will fall out, but no bats. If you shake a tree and a bat falls out, that's a good thing.

I think it just depends on how much you have to score.

Wright State is 9-5 (they started 0-3) and they only score 69.4 PPG. They only allow 65 PPG.
SDSU is 11-5 for the season. They score 84.1 PPG but they allow 74.9 PPG.

Both teams have about the same record but one team tries to stop teams and the other team tries to outscore them. Neither team has the players that their new coach wants, yet, but I think it won't change much.

[OldHare]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Wolters played as a true freshman, I believe.

You need even less memory to look back and see Theisen and Telly. I would check White and Fiegen getting good minutes as well. I cannot recall Brayden's minutes as a freshman, but I will guess he played some quality minutes.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Wolters played as a true freshman, I believe.

Yes he did, I do recall one game were he did play, but my attendance was even faulty back then. I also looked at the 2009-10 stats his first season and Wolters played in several games getting between 16 to 24 minutes. I don't know how this compares with Jenkins, but probably beside the point since we have different coaches with different ideas.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Summit MBB 2017-18

Outside of Dykstra, did Nagy really ever play a true freshman? I've seen RJJ get burned on defense plenty of times but scorers like him don't come along very often. He's only played 13 DI games. Lock him up on the bench because he gives up some layups and you're missing out on some special talent on the other end of the floor.

Whatever level of defense we have played, I'd take an OOC season just like this one every year for the next two decades.

Wolters played as a true freshman, I believe.