Summit League Membership

[filbert]

Re: Summit League Membership

Seems like Denver has no baseball and was admitted to the Summit. I keep thinking UND could raise inconsistency in admission, but maybe they are not in a position to be picky when you consider their budget short-fall. I would hope the Summit would require baseball for UND. I dont have an up to date BOR report, but in 2011, baseball cost $380,000 at SDSU. So UND should be able to restart the baseball for $450,000 or less I am guessing here. Maybe not that big of a deal, but the football as you said is the big stickler. Travel costs to Grand Forks for UNA and the west coast schools can not be cheap. I can see a sigh of relief from those schools when UND fully exits the BSC.

Denver was pretty close to a total no-brainer for the Summit League; they were a direct replacement for UMKC (who didn't have baseball either) and all in all Denver constitutes a significant upgrade both in athletics and in overall academic reputation over UMKC.

[2002jack]

Re: Summit League Membership

Seems like Denver has no baseball and was admitted to the Summit. I keep thinking UND could raise inconsistency in admission, but maybe they are not in a position to be picky when you consider their budget short-fall. I would hope the Summit would require baseball for UND. I dont have an up to date BOR report, but in 2011, baseball cost $380,000 at SDSU. So UND should be able to restart the baseball for $450,000 or less I am guessing here. Maybe not that big of a deal, but the football as you said is the big stickler. Travel costs to Grand Forks for UNA and the west coast schools can not be cheap. I can see a sigh of relief from those schools when UND fully exits the BSC.

The expenditures for SDSU Baseball was a little over $600k for FY2015.


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[Nidaros]

Re: Summit League Membership

The expenditures for SDSU Baseball was a little over $600k for FY2015.


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Thanks. Maybe this is why UND dropped baseball. Since so many opening games are on the road, I can see how the increase in costs have occurred since 2011.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit League Membership

Denver was pretty close to a total no-brainer for the Summit League; they were a direct replacement for UMKC (who didn't have baseball either) and all in all Denver constitutes a significant upgrade both in athletics and in overall academic reputation over UMKC.

Not being critical of Denver as a choice, I was just saying UND could make a case that they did not require Denver to have baseball so why should they require that of UND IF AND WHEN UND applies for Summit membership.

[filbert]

Re: Summit League Membership

Not being critical of Denver as a choice, I was just saying UND could make a case that they did not require Denver to have baseball so why should they require that of UND IF AND WHEN UND applies for Summit membership.

Universities seeking admission to a conference are rarely in such a strong bargaining position that they can successfully make that kind of argument, IMHO. If they want in, they'll suck it up and do what the conference wants them to do. If they don't, they won't.

For the Summit League, UND is maybe desirable but certainly not critical. It is unclear whether the reverse is true, and UND does not have any other reasonable D-I conference option as far as I can see. If UND wants into the Summit League, most of the conversations will be of the "what do we need to do to get in" variety, not the "what do we need to offer UND to want to come in" variety . . . again IMHO.

It's also not entirely clear to me that the Indiana schools or ORU would be particularly excited about adding UND as a member. That's also a factor.

I'm fairly agnostic on the question of requiring UND (or any other current or future Summit League school) to support a baseball program, but that's certainly not the only question that may be on the table of any potential membership negotiations (or deliberations between current conference members).

What to do with UND football is by far a larger issue than what to do with baseball in this particular case, as a final IMHO.

[CappinHard]

Re: Summit League Membership

Thanks. Maybe this is why UND dropped baseball. Since so many opening games are on the road, I can see how the increase in costs have occurred since 2011.

Time for an indoor baseball/softball field? Kidding... sort of. I'm surprised Sioux Falls hasn't put up some sort of year round baseball/softball structure.

[thumper_76]

Re: Summit League Membership

Universities seeking admission to a conference are rarely in such a strong bargaining position that they can successfully make that kind of argument, IMHO. If they want in, they'll suck it up and do what the conference wants them to do. If they don't, they won't.

For the Summit League, UND is maybe desirable but certainly not critical. It is unclear whether the reverse is true, and UND does not have any other reasonable D-I conference option as far as I can see. If UND wants into the Summit League, most of the conversations will be of the "what do we need to do to get in" variety, not the "what do we need to offer UND to want to come in" variety . . . again IMHO.

It's also not entirely clear to me that the Indiana schools or ORU would be particularly excited about adding UND as a member. That's also a factor.

I'm fairly agnostic on the question of requiring UND (or any other current or future Summit League school) to support a baseball program, but that's certainly not the only question that may be on the table of any potential membership negotiations (or deliberations between current conference members).

What to do with UND football is by far a larger issue than what to do with baseball in this particular case, as a final IMHO.

This is spot on. UND fans claim that the Summit was calling them twice a year to have them join. Maybe, but that's when they had baseball. The Summit could add 400 more teams but if none of them have baseball it doesn't make the conference any more stable, just bigger. And bigger and not more stable is usually worse than better IMHO.

By deciding to axe baseball before getting into the Summit, they just threw away any leverage they had in the conversation, especially to sway non Dakota schools.

UND is weird to me. The more I interact with them, the more they are like NDSU fans with a feeling of arrogance about them, except they've done literally zilch to be like that.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Summit League Membership

UND is weird to me. The more I interact with them, the more they are like NDSU fans with a feeling of arrogance about them, except they've done literally zilch to be like that.

ButtHockey.

[Nidaros]

Re: Summit League Membership

Universities seeking admission to a conference are rarely in such a strong bargaining position that they can successfully make that kind of argument, IMHO. If they want in, they'll suck it up and do what the conference wants them to do. If they don't, they won't.

For the Summit League, UND is maybe desirable but certainly not critical. It is unclear whether the reverse is true, and UND does not have any other reasonable D-I conference option as far as I can see. If UND wants into the Summit League, most of the conversations will be of the "what do we need to do to get in" variety, not the "what do we need to offer UND to want to come in" variety . . . again IMHO.

It's also not entirely clear to me that the Indiana schools or ORU would be particularly excited about adding UND as a member. That's also a factor.

I'm fairly agnostic on the question of requiring UND (or any other current or future Summit League school) to support a baseball program, but that's certainly not the only question that may be on the table of any potential membership negotiations (or deliberations between current conference members).

What to do with UND football is by far a larger issue than what to do with baseball in this particular case, as a final IMHO.

I think you and Jack#1 have laid it out correctly.

[unobovine]

Re: Summit League Membership

The sticker is football. The MVFC is not interested in adding a 10th team. On the question of baseball...the Summit could require it as a part of admission to the conference. The league required Omaha to start a men's soccer team for admission to the league. If the Big Sky would allow UND to stay as an affiliate member in football, the Summit would jump at the chance to add them IMO.

UNO did drop Football and Wrestling for men's sports. They added men's soccer and golf for Title IX balance. Did help Summit League for membership thou

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League Membership

I do believe that the Big Sky would probably let UND stay in the Big Sky for football only, just a guess. And I'd have to guess that though the MVFC would be cheaper for football (bus trips to NDSU/SDSU/USD), better gate for those home games. That the travel would be similar just due to the fact that charters are charters.

I'm not sure why the MVFC wouldn't just allow another member, if the D-I FBS schools are honestly going to crack down on scheduling FCS schools, then the FCS schools are going to need help with scheduling. I'd think that adding another team might help that, even if you don't add another scheduled game.

[thumper_76]

Re: Summit League Membership

I do believe that the Big Sky would probably let UND stay in the Big Sky for football only, just a guess. And I'd have to guess that though the MVFC would be cheaper for football (bus trips to NDSU/SDSU/USD), better gate for those home games. That the travel would be similar just due to the fact that charters are charters.

I'm not sure why the MVFC wouldn't just allow another member, if the D-I FBS schools are honestly going to crack down on scheduling FCS schools, then the FCS schools are going to need help with scheduling. I'd think that adding another team might help that, even if you don't add another scheduled game.

How in the world does that help? I just don't see how there is any way making an unbalanced schedule even more unbalanced helps. Sure it's cheaper for UNI/NDSU/SDSU/USD but the majority of the conference it doesn't help and if it does happen with the eastern schools whining it just makes the playoffs that much harder for us. We already play at NDSU AND UNI every other year. Do you honestly think this will make it better?

[goon]

Re: Summit League Membership

How in the world does that help? I just don't see how there is any way making an unbalanced schedule even more unbalanced helps. Sure it's cheaper for UNI/NDSU/SDSU/USD but the majority of the conference it doesn't help and if it does happen with the eastern schools whining it just makes the playoffs that much harder for us. We already play at NDSU AND UNI every other year. Do you honestly think this will make it better?

wouldnt that put as at 11 teams? right now we dont currently play ever team in the conference anyway. If we had 11 teams you could play 10 games 5 home and 5 road. make it easier for some schools to schedule since they have 1 less non conference game to worry about. not saying I like that idea, but it doesnt seem all that horrible of a change. I would rather be at 9 instead of 10, but 11 isnt much different. Maybe getting to 12 teams would be nice, having east and west or north and south divisions and play all the teams in your half and a few of the others.

[joeboo22]

Re: Summit League Membership

How in the world does that help? I just don't see how there is any way making an unbalanced schedule even more unbalanced helps. Sure it's cheaper for UNI/NDSU/SDSU/USD but the majority of the conference it doesn't help and if it does happen with the eastern schools whining it just makes the playoffs that much harder for us. We already play at NDSU AND UNI every other year. Do you honestly think this will make it better?

It could? I don't know exactly how the logistics would work, but there are conferences where not everyone plays each other. There are conferences (basketball) wher you play some twice and some once. Would it be unbalanced and probably confusing yeah, but I don't think it would be the end of the world, or as difficult as some make it out to be.

I still think the best bet would be just bringing them in without football, let their football stay in the Big Sky, and then if a team is needed in the MVFC allow them to enter then.

[thumper_76]

Re: Summit League Membership

wouldnt that put as at 11 teams? right now we dont currently play ever team in the conference anyway. If we had 11 teams you could play 10 games 5 home and 5 road. make it easier for some schools to schedule since they have 1 less non conference game to worry about. not saying I like that idea, but it doesnt seem all that horrible of a change. I would rather be at 9 instead of 10, but 11 isnt much different. Maybe getting to 12 teams would be nice, having east and west or north and south divisions and play all the teams in your half and a few of the others.

Right, but as of now the eastern schools already get to miss one of UNI/USD/SDSU/NDSU every two years while those schools never get a break from it. Which leads to something like last year where Illinois State got to miss playing NDSU and finish higher in the conference than us.

Only having two OOC games is a terrible idea. That's what the Southland conference does, and that conference is going downhill fast for quality of teams in it outside of SHSU. Plus, now your schedule OOC is basically FBS game and cupcake. As a fan, that's not giving me much to want to buy tickets for.

12 teams would not be nice in any fashion. If we're going to have that many teams it would be split into east and west divisions, and at that point we might as well just split one of the conferences off. A big conference is great in FBS when you can have a conference championship game. Not in FCS. Would you be happy if say, Indiana State got the auto bit from the conference because they got to miss NDSU, SDSU, and UNI? Look at the big sky for how it happens. UND is picked to win the conference by a lot of people because they get to miss all the good teams in the conference. In fact, they aren't even in the top highest ranked teams in the conference.