Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

[joeboo22]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

What are the advantages to the MVC expanding though? I guess if I'm Creighton or UNI, or SIU I kidna got the lets not add anyone and just take the money we get and divide it by 1 (or 2) less. I know that things change and there may be a time where they "need" to add a school, but at the same time I'm guessing that they would be able to get a team or 2 in a heart beat if they needed to, 2-3-5-10 years down the line.

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

they also know we would be very faithful to the conference and not "shopping"

What?

What part of the recent history of SDSU & NDSU suggests unstinting loyalty to a conference?

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

if I'm Creighton or UNI, or SIU I kidna got the lets not add anyone

If UNI & SIU are serious about FBS and the MAC requires all sports, UNI & SIU won't be in the MVC to kick up a fuss.

[tjbison]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

What?What part of the recent history of SDSU & NDSU suggests unstinting loyalty to a conference?

Please explain when we haven't? GWFC had no auto bid had to jump on the Gateway when they came calling to secure a future, obviously the Summit is in danger of becoming nothing more than the GWC and should the Valley call we would have the same conference for al sports in a area where unless the Big 12 or Big 10 had a brain fart and invited us we would be there for our lifetime

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

we would be there for our lifetime

What kind of silly assumption is this?

In a world where the "Big Ten" has 12 schools, where the Big Twelve was within an ace of being raided into irrelevance, where the Big East shares schools with the Big West, do you think that any kind of lifetime pledge to the MVC is in any way shape or form reasonable?

The MVC with the xDSUs will be considerably less attractive than this current version of the league, and prone to having other marquee programs lured away---the surest path into the MVC requires that multiple tournament qualifiers SIU & UNI leave, and thus *that* MVC would consist of Creighton and a bunch of also-rans and it would be just another one-bid league.

Explain to me how *that* iteration of the MVC is demonstrably superior to the Horizon, for eastern MVC schools like Indiana State, Bradley & Evansville. I mean if you're Indiana State, why stay in a conference where you have to fly to Fargo, when you can join a conference where the farthest trip is Green Bay?

The problem you're not seeing is that NDSU and SDSU would WEAKEN the MVC and make it LESS ATTRACTIVE. It would lower the conference RPI, it would lower the reputation of the conference, it would dramatically expand the conference footprint, it would increase travel, etc. The xDSUs are like 'typhoid Mary' for conferences. They're geographic outliers, they are in decidedly un-hip places--even by Iowa and Nebraska standards, etc.

I might further add that SDSU's conference situation vis a vis the Valley would be exactly the same as it is with the Summit. One conference for most sports, one conference for football and one conference for wrestling.

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Please explain when we haven't?

Umm, for the last ten years, starting when SDSU & NDSU turned their backs on the NCC.

[Nidaros]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Mind boggling in speculation. I lost it. Which end is up?

[Kemo]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Sorry Zoo, but you've been pretty wrong today:

And seriously, people, what kind of 'plans' can an AD have for getting into a conference anyway? "Okay, our strategy, if the Summit League loses ____ is to apply for the MVC." Gee, wow, it'd take a regular mastermind to come up with that one.

The AD doesn't have direct say in whether a conference picks them or not, but there is plenty of things they can do to sell the institution/athletic program to a conference. Having consist dialogue with the league they'd like to join is a great start, for this makes it so the AD knows fact from fiction in terms of rumors and will create opportunities to make pitches to people who could be making (or heavily involved with) membership decisions. The old saying, "it's not what you know, but who you know," applies here.

In terms of "plans" to get into a conference, do you think our Strategic Master Plan for Athletic Facilities is just for fans and boosters? That's a pretty narrow view of the big picture if that is the case. These plans show conferences who could be potential suitors that if you do decide to add SDSU as a member, not only do you know who we are, but also who we are going to be.

Umm, for the last ten years, starting when SDSU & NDSU turned their backs on the NCC.

This statement is ludicrous coming out of an educated SDSU fan's mouth (key board in this instance). If you call being a founding member of a conference and being a contributing member to its success for 83 years, then asking the entire conference to move up with us to DI only to have them decline, turning our backs, then I can't consider you a rational person. You know just as well that SDSU/NDSU's aspirations outgrew that of the conference, so rather be held down, we moved on.


Note: I think Chicoine/Sell have done a fantastic job so far and I feel we'll be on the positive side of any conference shakeup.

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Having consist dialogue with the league they'd like to join is a great start

I love the word 'dialogue', because whenever people use it, they mean anything but.

"We need a national dialogue on...." What is that supposed to be? We're going to organize some nationwide gab-fest where we all talk a bunch and nothing gets done?

Or in this instance, my question is "What the blorp is a 'dialogue'?"

Sell & Chicoine calling up their counterparts at Valley schools and calling the Valley commish and saying stuff like, "So, what are you guys up to these days? How are the kids? Whatever happened to ....? Did you hear about...?"

I mean seriously, what the heck is a 'dialogue', in the sense you're using it?

do you think our Strategic Master Plan for Athletic Facilities is just for fans and boosters? That's a pretty narrow view of the big picture if that is the case. These plans show conferences who could be potential suitors that if you do decide to add SDSU as a member, not only do you know who we are, but also who we are going to be.

The facility master plan would be done even if it had ZERO impact on conference affiliation, so asserting that SDSU should prepare a facility master plan in order to make the school appealing to other conferences is just silly. It's like saying "I drink wine for the anti-oxidants" when you'd been drinking wine for years before you knew that anti-oxidants even existed, let alone that they're good for you.

You know how you 'plan ahead' for a conference switch?

By taking care of business. Discharging your responsibilities professionally. Fielding competitive teams that achieve in the classroom. Planning for the future. Encouraging staff to serve on national and regional advocacy and advisory organizations.

This statement is ludicrous

No. THIS is ludicrous:

they also know we would be very faithful to the conference and not "shopping"

we would be there for our lifetime

If SDSU didn't hesitate to leave (and destabilize) an 80 year old conference that they helped found, the idea that there would be some magical relationship between the SDSU and the Valley beggars belief.

SDSU would commit to the Valley as long as the Valley was the best fit for SDSU, and not a moment longer. That's what SDSU did with the NCC, the Great West and (putatively) what they would do to the Summit under this rosy scenario. SDSU would be no more committed to the Valley than they were to the NCC.

[JackJD]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Because the MAC would have to be total idiots to only take their FB programs. How would the conversation go? "Let's add football teams, which bring in no money for our conference, and not bring in basketball programs, which can bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars per year."

I mean seriously, does the MAC need another football program? Let alone another two or three? What they *need* are good basketball programs.

Okay, must have had a loose cable to the brain when I asked the question.

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Okay, must have had a loose cable to the brain when I asked the question.

I mean, I wouldn't put it past the MAC to accept MVFC football programs without requiring all sports commitments, but they've already got like 13 FB programs in their conference. http://www.mac-sports.com/Sports/Foo...leResults.aspx

[Rabbit74]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Because the MAC would have to be total idiots to only take their FB programs. How would the conversation go? "Let's add football teams, which bring in no money for our conference, and not bring in basketball programs, which can bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars per year."

I mean seriously, does the MAC need another football program? Let alone another two or three? What they *need* are good basketball programs.

The MAC has a long history of bringing in football only programs. Temple was a member for several years until invited to the Big East and now U Mass has been added for the future. Both of these are football only relationships.

[zooropa]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

The MAC has a long history of bringing in football only programs. Temple was a member for several years until invited to the Big East and now U Mass has been added for the future. Both of these are football only relationships.

But we're talking about 15 or more FB programs in a bargain-basement FB conference.

[joeboo22]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

I can see Evansville leaving the MVC because lets be realistic who even knew they were in the conference before this. But I just don't see UNI and SIU leaving. First I just don't see UNI having the money to go FBS, especially without hurting its basketball program. I'm guessing it would take $100 million over 10 years to get to the place they need to be in 10 years (upped scholarships, recruiting, larger venue, etc.) This is the school that had to cut baseball because of money, the school that has been brought up a time or two about having to drop football due to money issues. In a state that is Hawkeyes #1, Cyclones #2, there are a trillion more issues before Northern Iowa gets on the issue. As far as SIU, they are probably closer to be able to move, but again I just don't see them moving up to be a bottom 20% FBS team.

Until I see the first move happening I just don't see much after that.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Rumor Redux: Oakland to Horizon

Pure speculation and unlikely at this point, but if the MVC were going to add 2 Dakota schools, what are the chances both are from South Dakota? USD is building a new facility and would make a perfect travel partner to SDSU...

Both USD and SDSU lie outside the MVC footprint, but Fargo is waaaay outside it.