Summit vs Great West

[filbert]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Just to set the record right, there was no Great West for any other sport than football prior to our joining the Summit (Mid-Continent). We did have a basketball tournament at the end of the last year (prior to Summit) among whatever independents could be grouped together. The Great West added other sports after SDSU and NDSU joined what is now the Missouri Valley Football Conference. Hence, no valid comparison available.

Actually, the Great West "scheduling alliance" was active, at least during our last year of D-I independent play. UND and USD just took up NDSU's and SDSU's spots when we moved to the Mid-Continent (which became the Summit). It is true however that the Great West Conference, with a real commissioner and everything (as contrasted with the GWFC), did not form until after we left.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Actually, the Great West "scheduling alliance" was active, at least during our last year of D-I independent play. UND and USD just took up NDSU's and SDSU's spots when we moved to the Mid-Continent (which became the Summit). It is true however that the Great West Conference, with a real commissioner and everything (as contrasted with the GWFC), did not form until after we left.

Are you talking about the United Basketball Conference? We were members of that for its one year of existence along with IPFW, UVU, NJIT & UTPA. When we(and IPFW) left for the Summit, it folded and the other three members joined the Great West when it expanded to a multi-sport conference the following year. NDSU & SDSU were never members of the GWC, only the GWFC. There was some overlap in membership, but I wouldn't say enough to compare then and now.

Only UBC: SDSU, NDSU, IPFW
UBC & GWC: UVU, NJIT, UTPA
Only GWC: USD, UND, CSU, HBU

[Rabbit74]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Are you talking about the United Basketball Conference? We were members of that for its one year of existence along with IPFW, UVU, NJIT & UTPA. When we(and IPFW) left for the Summit, it folded and the other three members joined the Great West when it expanded to a multi-sport conference the following year. NDSU & SDSU were never members of the GWC, only the GWFC. There was some overlap in membership, but I wouldn't say enough to compare then and now.

Only UBC: SDSU, NDSU, IPFW
UBC & GWC: UVU, NJIT, UTPA
Only GWC: USD, UND, CSU, HBU

Hammersmith you are correct. The Great West added the other sports in 2008, our first year of competition in The Summit. The scheduling alliance used the UBC name and was not affilated with the Great West Football League. Here is the link to the announcement of the all sports league GWC.

http://www.greatwestconference.org/g...071008aab.html

Here is a link to the WIKi page on the old UBC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...all_Conference

[filbert]

Re: Summit vs Great West

I stand corrected.

However . . . UBC/GWC--a rose by any other name . . .

[Rabbit74]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Filbert,

Great recognition at the game last night. You looked like you were enjoying yourself.

Thanks for all you do for this board.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Lets put things into perspective and look at things fairly. USD finished the season with a higher RPI than the Jacks. Great West or no Great West finishing 11-1 is still fairly impressive. Is finishing 11-1 in the Great West or finishing 10-8 in the Summit considered a better season? Obviously the Jacks played the tougher schedule but the Yotes also won alot more as well. Balance it out as the rating systems are supposed to do and the teams were probably considered fairly even. This year the Yotes have been mediocre but the Jacks haven't stepped up this year as much as they maybe could have either. Many returning players but overall still kind of mediocre.

The Yotes have had their struggles throughout the year but they are still good enough to beat Wyoming at home and to play the major conference teams fairly tough. The consistancy is a big issue for the Yotes. I think for they Jacks they are filling it up on the offensive end but until the defense improves it's gonna be tough to get too much higher than 4th or 5th in the Summit.

One thing I will say that I think is true for both the Jacks and the Yotes is that the talent level isn't as good around the area making it difficult for both to get the talent to match other teams. One thing about the NCC that is different from D1 ball is that the talent there was just too slow so the coaches didn't have too worry so much about how to match up with the quicker type players like maybe other D2 schools saw a bit more. Good size but not good athletisism so when USD and SDSU got to the elite 8 it showed.

In all honesty I have seen a much bigger talent difference in the jump to D1 basketball than I see in football.

[tjbison]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Lets put things into perspective and look at things fairly. USD finished the season with a higher RPI than the Jacks. Great West or no Great West finishing 11-1 is still fairly impressive. Is finishing 11-1 in the Great West or finishing 10-8 in the Summit considered a better season? Obviously the Jacks played the tougher schedule but the Yotes also won alot more as well. Balance it out as the rating systems are supposed to do and the teams were probably considered fairly even. This year the Yotes have been mediocre but the Jacks haven't stepped up this year as much as they maybe could have either. Many returning players but overall still kind of mediocre.

The Yotes have had their struggles throughout the year but they are still good enough to beat Wyoming at home and to play the major conference teams fairly tough. The consistancy is a big issue for the Yotes. I think for they Jacks they are filling it up on the offensive end but until the defense improves it's gonna be tough to get too much higher than 4th or 5th in the Summit.

One thing I will say that I think is true for both the Jacks and the Yotes is that the talent level isn't as good around the area making it difficult for both to get the talent to match other teams. One thing about the NCC that is different from D1 ball is that the talent there was just too slow so the coaches didn't have too worry so much about how to match up with the quicker type players like maybe other D2 schools saw a bit more. Good size but not good athletisism so when USD and SDSU got to the elite 8 it showed.

In all honesty I have seen a much bigger talent difference in the jump to D1 basketball than I see in football.

Are you trying to say the GWC is as good as the Summit??? The Highest RPI team in the Summit is currently at 74 Oakland the Lowest at 342 Cent (who will be gone next year). The Highest GWC team 268 and the lowest 345 Currently as it sits USD does not help the Summits RPI like most had hoped they are at 328.

Going 10-8 in the 22nd of 32 DI Conferences is FAR better than 11-1 in the GWC which is 32nd of 32 in DI Conferences

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Are you trying to say the GWC is as good as the Summit??? The Highest RPI team in the Summit is currently at 74 Oakland the Lowest at 342 Cent (who will be gone next year). The Highest GWC team 268 and the lowest 345 Currently as it sits USD does not help the Summits RPI like most had hoped they are at 328.

Going 10-8 in the 22nd of 32 DI Conferences is FAR better than 11-1 in the GWC which is 32nd of 32 in DI Conferences

It is obviously not far better according to the end of season RPI. the RPI isn't everything but just because a conference is weaker than another doesn't mean that all teams in the weaker conference are all worse than all the other teams in a stronger conference. The Great West is not a good conference that is not up for arguments sake but going 11-1 is a good accomplishment regardless of affiliation. The Coyotes being in the weaker conference is figured into the RPI ratings and most other ratings.

Just ask yourself this question, would Centenary win the Great West this year? or even Southern Utah?

NDSU cannot really talk too much since they went 0-1 against the Great West last year. I would rather be 11-1 against the Great West than 0-1. So does that mean that since NDSU went 0-1 in the Great West than that would be much worse than going 10-8 in the Summit? With the argument that you made USD should easily have been able to do just as well as NDSU in the Summmit.

If you go 0-1 against the Great West and lose to a middle to lower tier Great West team I probably wouldn't be bragging up the Summit and downing the Great West quite so much. All it does is diminish NDSU and on top of that the Bison did take quite a few beatings against the Yotes over the years.

[jackdaniel]

Re: Summit vs Great West

THE reason the Yotes are LEAVING the Great West is that they want to join a BETTER conference,i thought.....hymmm

[tjbison]

Re: Summit vs Great West

It is obviously not far better according to the end of season RPI. the RPI isn't everything but just because a conference is weaker than another doesn't mean that all teams in the weaker conference are all worse than all the other teams in a stronger conference. The Great West is not a good conference that is not up for arguments sake but going 11-1 is a good accomplishment regardless of affiliation. The Coyotes being in the weaker conference is figured into the RPI ratings and most other ratings.

Just ask yourself this question, would Centenary win the Great West this year? or even Southern Utah?

NDSU cannot really talk too much since they went 0-1 against the Great West last year. I would rather be 11-1 against the Great West than 0-1. So does that mean that since NDSU went 0-1 in the Great West than that would be much worse than going 10-8 in the Summit? With the argument that you made USD should easily have been able to do just as well as NDSU in the Summmit.

If you go 0-1 against the Great West and lose to a middle to lower tier Great West team I probably wouldn't be bragging up the Summit and downing the Great West quite so much. All it does is diminish NDSU and on top of that the Bison did take quite a few beatings against the Yotes over the years.

We were not good last year, not great this year never said we were, but 10 out of 10 times USD plays Oakland, IUPUI they get beat and I feel they are not even close games. BTW did you see the how we dismantled UND??

I find it funny the Yote fans proclaiming they are as good as the Summit teams, one says you have a All American player and on your yote board they are talking about getting into the Valley all this and you have never played a game in a auto bid conference in any sport

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Summit vs Great West

THE reason the Yotes are LEAVING the Great West is that they want to join a BETTER conference,i thought.....hymmm

I don't think there is a reasonable person out there that honestly thinks the Great West is better than the Summit and I haven't heard one person even try to make that argument. On the other hand there also isn't a reasonable person out there that thinks every team in the Summit is better than every team in the Great West. Granted USD is a bit down this year but generally as they progress into the transition they will get better and if they get a new arena it should make a world of difference and there is no reason to think USD can't be a top Summit team when that happens. If the new arena is built NDSU and SDSU won't have anything on USD in basketball (including full eligibility for post season) and the facility argument will favor USD instead of be a detriment. Than Coyotes fans can expect to be at worst even in the recruiting battle with both.

[slosho]

Re: Summit vs Great West

and there is no reason to think USD can't be a top Summit team when that happens.

I could think of a couple...

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Summit vs Great West

We were not good last year, not great this year never said we were, but 10 out of 10 times USD plays Oakland, IUPUI they get beat and I feel they are not even close games. BTW did you see the how we dismantled UND??

I find it funny the Yote fans proclaiming they are as good as the Summit teams, one says you have a All American player and on your yote board they are talking about getting into the Valley all this and you have never played a game in a auto bid conference in any sport

No one is talking about getting into the Valley, right now but maybe down the road. USD would likely have the premier basketball facility in the area which would at least put them on the radar of the MVC in the future.

I stated this on the Coyote board but I personally don't want to see the arrangement as it is now 20 years from now. I would like to see some of the Valley schools and Summit schools form their own conference for all sports and not have to constantly worry about what is going to happen with the rather strange relationship between the Summit/MVFC and the MVC. The Missouri Valley Conference really only wants the Summit to stay strong enough so the MVC football programs have a place to play their football.

The Missouri Valley is a strong conference but don't think that the Summit/MVC programs that don't sponcer football don't think there is at least a small possibility that the football sponcered schools from both conferences may not combine forced and join one conference leaving the remainder of the Summit and MVC schools to fend for themselves. Under that senario it almost forces schools like Drake, Creighton, IUPUI, IPFW, Oakland etc into their own conference. I am not saying this is definately going to happen but by failing to look ahead is regressing by nature.

Don't underestimate the power that football has on an athletic department. A conference of USD, UND, NDSU, SDSU, UNI, S-Ill, W-Ill, Missouri etc, etc, etc with one conference for all sports could be a major FCS power conference and may certainly replace the Missouri Valley as the premier all sports mid major conference in the midwest if not the entire nation. If you have the "U" or "State" behind your name it's simply and advantage, especially when it comes to academics, the thing presidents don't take lightly.

USD is not ready right now for that kind of situation but for the first time in my lifetime they finally have the right leadship in place that finally GETS IT that could put them in a position to be part of a movement as explained above.

[Coyote_Fan]

Re: Summit vs Great West

I could think of a couple...

Would you like to elaborate? Your point really doesn't hold much water without further explanation. USD has already been drawing in better recruits because of major facility improvements on campus. The new business school has already caused a 2 start recruit to walk on from Tampa for football and that is before any facility improvements even start shoveling dirt. Even Meierkort was a little taken back by that and he is a rather bold guy.

USD is a small town which works against it, but the other things that are happening are going to work as a positive and will certainly make USD as desirable as any Summit school when it comes to recruiting. USD's academic offerings are a bit different than SDSU and NDSU as the State U's. Not that it's bad or good, just different.

[slosho]

Re: Summit vs Great West

Would you like to elaborate? Your point really doesn't hold much water without further explanation. USD has already been drawing in better recruits because of major facility improvements on campus. The new business school has already caused a 2 start recruit to walk on from Tampa for football and that is before any facility improvements even start shoveling dirt. Even Meierkort was a little taken back by that and he is a rather bold guy.

USD is a small town which works against it, but the other things that are happening are going to work as a positive and will certainly make USD as desirable as any Summit school when it comes to recruiting. USD's academic offerings are a bit different than SDSU and NDSU as the State U's. Not that it's bad or good, just different.

I guess it would depend on a persons definition of Top teams.

But to quantify my point. ORU, Oakland, and IUPUI.