Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

[BTownJack]

I'm guessing most of you have heard this already but now it is getting closer to reality. The Summit League is going to approve mirror scheduling which will eliminate the ability for schools to host doubleheaders on Saturdays.

Personally, I don't like this idea as I like the doubleheader set up. I also like that every other weekend we have home games. With mirror scheduling now there is going to be a game every weekend, Thursday & Saturday. One week men, next week women. I'm as big of a Jackrabbit fan as anyone, but I like having every other weekend open to do other things! This is sure to put a strain on the athletic department's staff as well. Instead of having to work 3 nights every 2 weekends, now they will have to work 4 nights every 2 weekends. And be accountable for being around every single weekend.

Let's hear your thoughts. And here is an article from Terry in today's argues:

Summit League might eliminate doubleheaders
Terry Vandrovec • January 6, 2011

The days of conference doubleheaders at Frost Arena may be numbered.

The Summit League joint council has approved switching to a mirror-schedule format, meaning that the SDSU men and women would play conference contests Thursdays and Saturdays - one team at home and one on the road - beginning in 2012-13.


Currently, the men and women both are at home or both away with the men playing Thursday and Saturday and the women Saturday and Monday.

The Jackrabbits - and some of their conference cohorts - have used that as an impetus to create attendance-boosting doubleheaders, hearkening back to the North Central Conference days. Even their season-ticket packages are good for men's and women's games.


But now all that's standing in the way of change - pitched as a way to create needed downtime for the women - is approval from the school presidents. They'll vote on the matter at league meetings during the conference tournament in early March in Sioux Falls, and SDSU athletic director Justin Sell believes it will pass.

"It's just part of the changing times and we have to roll with it," he said. "From our perspective, we're disappointed to see the doubleheaders go because we know the fans really enjoy them. We'll try to get creative and keep some (non-conference) doubleheaders around, and hopefully the strength of our men's and women's programs will take care of the ticket side."

There is a marked difference.

Last season, the SDSU men averaged 3,793 fans for home games that were part of conference doubleheaders compared to 1,596 for Thursday night league games. The women drew 2,937 on doubleheader days and just 1,345 on Mondays.

(read more)

[SoDakJack]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

While I like the doubleheaders that are currently in place, I can understand the line of thinking. The women's scheduling right now is a joke as far as the days they play. Perhaps this will also open up the door to allow fans that only want season tickets to either the men and women's games.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

A few random thoughts.

Is this the rest of the Summit League trying to negate the clear home court advantages SDSU, NDSU, and USD have on those double header nights due to double crowd size? The Dakota trip has to be the toughest in conference play for the men and women due to the quality of opponents, travel, and fan intensity.

While this may be good for individual women's athletes and their studies, IMO it is a setback for the progress of women's athletics at the Dakota campuses in particular. Our women have a chance to play in front of larger crowds when double headers are happening, get better media coverage, and more exposure in general.

This policy change is a joke, in my opinion. Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a few women's coaches would just get off their high horses and allow for all league schools to have double headers Thursdays and Saturdays, everyone would be better off. Move the start of the Women's game back to 6:30 and the start of the men's game to 8. Sure it gets a little late, but crowds for women's games are going to get very scarce in a hurry--that's just the reality as I see it. And a later start time for the Men's games might get more of them on national TV broadcasts, increasing the league's exposure.

I consider myself more than a casual SDSU fan, and have attended between 2-4 women's games over the last 3 years. ALL HAVE BEEN ON DOUBLE HEADER NIGHTS. I just don't see myself making the one hour trip to Brookings to watch a women's game on a Saturday night, much less a Thursday.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

A few random thoughts.

Is this the rest of the Summit League trying to negate the clear home court advantages SDSU, NDSU, and USD have on those double header nights due to double crowd size? The Dakota trip has to be the toughest in conference play for the men and women due to the quality of opponents, travel, and fan intensity.

While this may be good for individual women's athletes and their studies, IMO it is a setback for the progress of women's athletics at the Dakota campuses in particular. Our women have a chance to play in front of larger crowds when double headers are happening, get better media coverage, and more exposure in general.

This policy change is a joke, in my opinion. Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a few women's coaches would just get off their high horses and allow for all league schools to have double headers Thursdays and Saturdays, everyone would be better off. Move the start of the Women's game back to 6:30 and the start of the men's game to 8. Sure it gets a little late, but crowds for women's games are going to get very scarce in a hurry--that's just the reality as I see it. And a later start time for the Men's games might get more of them on national TV broadcasts, increasing the league's exposure.

I consider myself more than a casual SDSU fan, and have attended between 2-4 women's games over the last 3 years. ALL HAVE BEEN ON DOUBLE HEADER NIGHTS. I just don't see myself making the one hour trip to Brookings to watch a women's game on a Saturday night, much less a Thursday.

I think that if the women were as successful this year as in years past, then the attendance would be strong. But, as we have rehashed over and over, there is a fair amount of fair-weather fans in all sport.

Put a good product on the court and the crowds will come. In addition, having a game on Thursday is much better for some people than having the game on a Monday.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

I think that if the women were as successful this year as in years past, then the attendance would be strong. But, as we have rehashed over and over, there is a fair amount of fair-weather fans in all sport.

Put a good product on the court and the crowds will come. In addition, having a game on Thursday is much better for some people than having the game on a Monday.

While I agree with the general sentiment, I don't think you are being realistic as to the interest in women's basketball in general.

There are multiple top 25 women's basketball programs with good products on the court who have miserable attendance. Our baseball team had one of their most successful seasons ever last year, and averaged 186 a game despite an excellent product.

Under this plan, SDSU will almost certainly split men's and women's season tickets. How many women's basketball only season ticket holders do you suppose there would be?

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

A few random thoughts.

Is this the rest of the Summit League trying to negate the clear home court advantages SDSU, NDSU, and USD have on those double header nights due to double crowd size? The Dakota trip has to be the toughest in conference play for the men and women due to the quality of opponents, travel, and fan intensity.

While this may be good for individual women's athletes and their studies, IMO it is a setback for the progress of women's athletics at the Dakota campuses in particular. Our women have a chance to play in front of larger crowds when double headers are happening, get better media coverage, and more exposure in general.

This policy change is a joke, in my opinion. Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. If a few women's coaches would just get off their high horses and allow for all league schools to have double headers Thursdays and Saturdays, everyone would be better off. Move the start of the Women's game back to 6:30 and the start of the men's game to 8. Sure it gets a little late, but crowds for women's games are going to get very scarce in a hurry--that's just the reality as I see it. And a later start time for the Men's games might get more of them on national TV broadcasts, increasing the league's exposure.

I consider myself more than a casual SDSU fan, and have attended between 2-4 women's games over the last 3 years. ALL HAVE BEEN ON DOUBLE HEADER NIGHTS. I just don't see myself making the one hour trip to Brookings to watch a women's game on a Saturday night, much less a Thursday.

I see both sides of it. Coming from long distances it's nice to see two games, however it can be a long night. Ironically it seems Aaron supports it. I think as others have said if the product is strong the people will show up. It seems its not necessarily the opponent as the Women have had several strong BCS opponents this year and poor attendence. I think some of the interest in the womens program is artificial on a Saturday night when many are curious about the women, but really there to see the men. Bad womens basketball is hard to watch. I can watch a bad mens team as the Jacks men have been over the last few years and still can be entertained.

[SoDakJack]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

While I agree with the general sentiment, I don't think you are being realistic as to the interest in women's basketball in general.

There are multiple top 25 women's basketball programs with good products on the court who have miserable attendance. Our baseball team had one of their most successful seasons ever last year, and averaged 186 a game despite an excellent product.

Under this plan, SDSU will almost certainly split men's and women's season tickets. How many women's basketball only season ticket holders do you suppose there would be?

I think that we all know that in most cases a women's team will draw less than a men's program, but I also think that there is a great SDSU fan base that will support the team. For the past few years our men's team has been, to be kind, difficult to watch. Our women drew fine there.

And, baseball cannot really be a justified comparison because of the facilities. However that is a travesty that is best discussed in the baseball forum.

Personally, since I live in Brookings, I will be getting season tickets to both the men and the women as I like to see all the SDSU teams succeed and enjoy watching both the men and women play.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

I see both sides of it. Coming from long distances it's nice to see two games, however it can be a long night. Ironically it seems Aaron supports it. I think as others have said if the product is strong the people will show up. It seems its not necessarily the opponent as the Women have had several strong BCS opponents this year and poor attendence. I think some of the interest in the womens program is artificial on a Saturday night when many are curious about the women, but really there to see the men. Bad womens basketball is hard to watch. I can watch a bad mens team as the Jacks men have been over the last few years and still can be entertained.

To be fair, from the articles I've read, it sounds to me like AJ would be for any plan that gave his players a real day off during the conference season. The coaches most in favor of this move have been Oakland and ORU's women's coaches. They also happen to be the two schools having the hardest part competing with the SDSU women.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

I think that we all know that in most cases a women's team will draw less than a men's program, but I also think that there is a great SDSU fan base that will support the team. For the past few years our men's team has been, to be kind, difficult to watch. Our women drew fine there.

And, baseball cannot really be a justified comparison because of the facilities. However that is a travesty that is best discussed in the baseball forum.

Personally, since I live in Brookings, I will be getting season tickets to both the men and the women as I like to see all the SDSU teams succeed and enjoy watching both the men and women play.

Personally, since I live in Sioux Falls, I will likely not attend another SDSU women's basketball game until this policy changes and allows double headers again. Other than Summit Tourney games, of course. I will continue to watch women's games on Jackrabbit Extra.

[UWMandSDSU]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

Personally, since I live in Sioux Falls, I will likely not attend another SDSU women's basketball game until this policy changes and allows double headers again. Other than Summit Tourney games, of course. I will continue to watch women's games on Jackrabbit Extra.

Well that is too bad and I am sorry to hear that.

[propar80]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

Well that is too bad and I am sorry to hear that.

While I won't go as far as SF and say I will never go to a conference women's game after this year. I won't be going to many, that's for sure. I'll drive up when they play, IOWA, ASU, MTSU, etc, but probably not a lot of conference opponents.
IMO, this is not a good thing for an already struggling conference to be changing. And it's not good for Women's Summit League basketball, IMO. I know a lot of "other" conferences do this, but IMO, this is an opportunity to be different than "other" conferences and set ourselves apart.
I'm sure ORU and Oakland's coaches are very happy about this. They're used to playing in front of 500 ACTUAL(for the ORU readers) fans.

My prediction...SDSU will have one home women's conference game a year that has over 2000 fans...the USD game...and that will only be for the first 5 years that game is played, then that will wear off unless both are tops of the conference and the game is near the end of the year. The rest of the Summit league teams will struggle breaking 1000, including USD. I hope I'm wrong.

Go Jacks!!

[SoDakJack]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

Personally, since I live in Sioux Falls, I will likely not attend another SDSU women's basketball game until this policy changes and allows double headers again. Other than Summit Tourney games, of course. I will continue to watch women's games on Jackrabbit Extra.

And I respect your decision. There are alot of fans out there that feel the women's game is an inferior product so I will not argue about why a person should support the team in person.

[jacks1]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

...Move the start of the Women's game back to 6:30 and the start of the men's game to 8. Sure it gets a little late, but crowds for women's games are going to get very scarce in a hurry--that's just the reality as I see it...

Not sure I'm following this thought, though I do agree with your entire point. If you start the WBB game at 6:30 it would end at approx 8:15. Then you have 30 min before the MBB game would start, which would put that at approx 8:45. That is too late IMO.

[JACKGUYII]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

I think this move will effect recruiting as well. Many of the womens recruits cite the crowds and enviroment in Frost as reason they picked SDSU. Sadly I think on the womens side that will change dramatically unless the Women play at a very high dominating level.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Doubleheaders for SL basketball going bye-bye

Not sure I'm following this thought, though I do agree with your entire point. If you start the WBB game at 6:30 it would end at approx 8:15. Then you have 30 min before the MBB game would start, which would put that at approx 8:45. That is too late IMO.

Yeah, I had the times off, and 8:45 would be too late. I thought the double headers started at 6, it looks like they currently start at 5.

So start the women's game at 6 (one hour later than now) and the men's game should tip off at 8:15. Still kind of late, but I would have to think it would be a healthier compromise than mirror scheduling, which I believe will hurt (if not effectively kill) our women's program attendance and atmosphere.