Big Sky looking at USD

[propar80]

Re: Two more Teams??

I think we've come up with three:

Denver
SIU-Edwardsville(I like this one BTW)
UALR - Which I'm guessing is Arkansas-Little Rock??

But I'm sure it will come back to USD. Guess what Zoo...the longer this goes on the more I'm inclined to think they might take the Big Sky up on it, so we might as well at least start "discussing" other institutions. An 8 member Summit isn't what we want, I'm pretty sure of that.

Don't get me wrong...I'm one of the biggest USD haters there is and one of "those guys" that doesn't want to play them just out of spite(there I said it...again), but I do feel that USD/UND in the Summit make it stronger in the long run. But alas, there is no FB in the Summit and USD and UND has to do what's best for them and that maybe the Big Sky.
If I'm them though...I'm down one my knees that the Big Sky will allow them to be FB only members like Davis and Poly. But then again...this is why "transition sucks", you don't have a lot of cards to play with.

Go Jacks!!

[FargoBison]

Re: Two more Teams??

1/3 of the MVFC is Summit schools, we might have to go to bat for at least one of them. If you added USD it doesn't really change the MVFC that much, we wouldn't have the perfect number but we would be setup for at least one future defection.

USD and UND are really the only two schools the MVFC could add if it got into a pinch. I bet there are some interesting discussions taking place around all three leagues.

[zooropa]

Re: Two more Teams??

Propar:

1) SIU-E is already committed to the OVC.

http://www.ovcsports.com/ViewArticle...ATCLID=1478675

2) That this has drug on this long suggests USD has -serious- misgivings about the Big Sky.

Why?

Well, you've got the offer that's not an offer sitting on the table. If that's the best you've got, you take it. You don't sit around staring off into space, twiddling your thumbs, and stringing along the Summit. If you want to take the BSC up on its offer, you just do it.

[filbert]

Re: Two more Teams??

Back to the topic of the thread, what is the long-term future of the Summit if down to 8 teams?

Quick impression: Full Of Win.

For mid-major (non-BCS) leagues, it's all about the men's tournament share.

Fewer teams means larger share per team. Fewer teams means more opportunities for your athletes to make NCAA tournaments.

Mega-conferences at the mid-major level make very little sense economically, IMHO. You're just spreading the income stream more thinly with each additional member. We don't know exactly how the NCAA is going to restructure Division I but the last I heard, it sounded like the weird conference-membership-core/continuity thing was going to be rationalized.

And, consider what happens to your income if two league teams happen to make the NCAA men's basketball tournament in the same year? Cha-ching! (I'm talking to you, Oakland and Oral Roberts!)

No other conference would be able to offer a better deal than that for any of the eight remaining members.

Eight is Great IMHO.

[filbert]

Re: Two more Teams??

In a sane world, there would be a rationalization of the Valley and the Summit (+USD and UND) into a football-playing conference and a non-football conference.

Since the world is not sane, this will not happen.

[zooropa]

Re: Two more Teams??

Eight is Great IMHO.

Oh come on filbert, do you know how small those [first round] tournament shares are? Minuscule. And you only get them if you win. If SDSU were getting a share of Oakland's 2005 win (and they're not), it'd be like $15k. It'd be one scholarship out of what? 200?

Sacrificing conference stability for the sake of an extra $5k per year per school.... not smart.

SDSU gets more, FAR more, from the NCAA every year as an assistance grant towards its compliance budget.

[FargoBison]

Re: Two more Teams??

Eight means you are a school or two leaving from losing autobids. Not a good place to be. 10 is the perfect number for an all-sports conference.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Two more Teams??

At this point:

If USD goes Big Sky, it will be for football at the expense of their 14 other sports.

If USD stays Summit, it will be for their 14 other sports at the expense of football.

Doesn't really seem like that difficult of a decision to me.

[yotefan90]

Re: Two more Teams??

You don't sit around staring off into space, twiddling your thumbs, and stringing along the Summit. If you want to take the BSC up on its offer, you just do it.

What if, and I know it is a big WHAT IF, Douple, Patty and whoever else are working behind the scenes to see if the MVFC might want to rethink their stance and have asked USD for some time to do so? Or USD, that by holding off, hopes that Douple, Patty and whoever else might be inclined to work behind the scenes and make something happen?

We all know it isn't any secret that the preferred USD option is a Summit/MVFC alignment. Short of that, the decisions get immensely more difficult. If President Abbott and AD Sayler think there is a remote chance that it could happen and there is still time before a final decision is required, why rush any sooner than necessary?

One other significant reason that will cause a delay in any announcement would be the UND site visit next week. Why would any commitments be made when UND hasn't decided what they will do? I cannot say whether the USD/UND alliance is in lockstep as SDSU/NDSU were a few years back.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Two more Teams??

They have at larges in the Summit for swimming why not add USD playing as an at large in the MVFC. Play all the MV schools who all get rid of one D2 opponent game or lesser FCS team until expansion comes around. They don't count for conference playoff spot but with a good record could get an at large spot in the playoff. Sound like a dumb idea, Then that's what I'm here for.

[West-River_Jack]

Re: Two more Teams??

I don't know if anybody has posted it yet, but here is a map of the FCS schools across the country:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...AA_schools.png

At one time, I would have loved being in the Big Sky. Looking at their footprint compared to the MVFC, I must have been crazy or desperate.

I think that Youngstown State University is a very good member of the Valley, but I wouldn't want their travel schedule and budget either, as far east as they are. Does anyone have any knowledge of how firmly they are rooted in the MVFC, or might they be a flight risk if they get a better geographic offer? It they did find a home in a conference to the east, the Coyotes, at least in a geographic sense, would represent a pretty good alternative.

[JackJD]

Re: Two more Teams??

Several posters have mentioned something like the following:

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the blogs, but could being in the Big Sky put USD at a huge disadvantage for local recruiting?

Playing in the BSC would make it more difficult (if not impossible) for parents of local athletes to follow their child's collegiate career. Granted, they could watch internet feeds, follow live blogs, etc.

But for example, if you're a Sioux Falls high school football player looking at USD or SDSU:

Go to SDSU, an Argus Leader reporter files stories on pretty much every game in time for the Sunday edition. All road games except Youngstown would be within weekend driving distance.

Go to USD, abbreviated news stories might appear in the Sunday Argus if a reporter was even sent to the game. The only road game within weekend driving distance would be UNC. Even if MT and MT St. stay in the BSC, those are some pretty salty road trips by car.

If I was a parent, I would push my kid to SDSU so I could see pretty much every collegiate game they played in.

Please don't take this as criticism: I question how significant that is to recruits and their parents. If it is significant, how do we address that "situation" when recruiting student athletes from Dracula, GA, The Colony, TX; etc.? SF Washington's quarterback, a son of an SDSU player, is going to Montana. My point: not sure this is a big deal to an athlete.

[tjbison]

Re: Two more Teams??

I think that Youngstown State University is a very good member of the Valley, but I wouldn't want their travel schedule and budget either, as far east as they are. Does anyone have any knowledge of how firmly they are rooted in the MVFC, or might they be a flight risk if they get a better geographic offer? It they did find a home in a conference to the east, the Coyotes, at least in a geographic sense, would represent a pretty good alternative.

IMO, as long as they are FCS they will be Valley Members, as they are Horizon league members for all other sports and its very doubtful the CAA would expand to them or the SoCon.

YSU, ISU-B, ISU-R, SIU, MSU would be hard to sell on adding BOTH U Daks

If it came to going to 10 and adding just USD they may be more receptive, but a couple weeks ago Patty was on WDAY in Fargo and it pretty much sounded like the expansion issue was dead in the water unless some outside influences forced them to. I just can't figure out why some fans believe the Valley schools should really care what happens to UND and USD, and I believe Douple and Patty found out their opinions quickly when brought up.

[zooropa]

Re: Two more Teams??

unless some outside influences forced them to

Here's the outside source: Summit instability leading to the xDSUs joining up with the UxDs and UNC for a western division of the Big Sky. Bye bye MVFC stability.

The MVFC's stability is, at this point, dependent on both a stable Summit and a stable Valley. 8 of its 9 members are from those conferences. And an 8 member Summit is not stable.

And if the Valley presidents were unequivocally opposed to adding USD and/or UND, then I'm pretty sure one or both schools would've already signed up for the BSC.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Two more Teams??

Map is about 2 years out of date.

A member that the Summit needs to be wooing is EIU. They're already an associate member in 3 sports. What a solid addition they would be into the Summit, as well as as a combined MVFC/Summit 12 team football league.

Campbell (North Carolina?) not shown.

Savannah St. joins the MEAC in 2011.
NC Central joined this year.
Winston-Salem stopped in D-I and returned to D-II.

Presbyterian is a member of the Big South.

Hofstra and Northeastern dropped football after 2009.

Ga St (ATL) and Old Dominion (Hampton Roads, VA) will become members of the CAA football conference (already members in CAA, other sports.

Lamar is starting FB, and will be a Southland member.

UTSA starts FB next year, but are going FBS, so are about to get booted out of Southland.

IMHO a
SUMMIT /MVC football conference would be good.

Summit - EIU, WIU, NDSU, SDSU, USD, UND
MVC - UNI, SIU, IL St., In St., Mo St, and Horizon member YSU

would work very well. Could also split west/east.

East - YSU, InSt, EIU, ILSt, SIU, WIU
West - 4 Dakotas, UNI, Mo St.