Ndsu president chapman resigns.

[Nidaros]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Please see my previous post, I think that this was internal NDSU issue and two or three UND grads were simply used as a good cover story. I am not sure that we will ever get the real story. But, I find it hard to believe that Chapman and power that he had in the community of Fargo and the good will he had at NDSU and across the state would simply retire because a house was over budget. We are talking about a million dollars that is peanuts compared to what he had control over as the president at NDSU. It is a simple slap on the wrist and move on unless he lost his power base at NDSU ie the Foundation.

In all fairness to Dr Chapman, he is 67 years old. He has put in two more years than what most of us would normally do. I believe I read he had planned to retire this coming spring and moving it up considering the mess that is going on, maybe helps NDSU by letting the auditors and accountants count the dead bodies. A bunch of decisions have been made that no one can now take back. Its like calling plays for a football coach. Once the signal goes to the guy on the field, it either works or it does not and you as a coach are either a hero or a goat. I am not denying that Chapman will in the end be found to be a goat on a number of issues and for his sake I hope he will be remembered for his accompolishments. The people in the foundation and in the adminstration of Chapman clearly did not fully understand the limits of the 900k authorization. Also when it became clear, that the authorization was insufficent, Chapman and staff should have been back at the table of SBHE asking for more authorization. Why these things that may now appear simple to you and I were not realized at the time action was taken to implement the construction is beyond me. I fear some hardworking staff people in the Foundation staff may lose their jobs over this mess. Thats unfortunate especially if they were aware of the facts and were not listened too.

I will say this as an interested South Dakotan who spends time in North Dakota, the UND-NDSU rivalry is not dead by any means. Both institutions seem to be large and kind of all by themselves in terms of competition amongst the State Assisted instittuions. For the best interest of each institution they should work together rather than having a pissing match every week or month or whenever an issue arises. With 8 or 9 lesser institutions in ND, the other got be smiling about this mess and hope something likewise happens at UND. These over publicized incidents certainly dont hurt Minot State nor Dickenson State.

In South Daktoa, its somewhat the same situation, SDSU-USD right now have two presidents who known each other for years and have a very civil respect for each other. In fact when David Chicoine took over as president of SDSU, he offered the help of all the SDSU athletic department staff to USD in their transitiion move to D1. I sure that this offer helped USD some although those from USD would say they were modeling UNI more than SDSU in the move to D1.

What SDSU-USD need to do is work with our State Board of Regents to allow multi year contracts for coaches such as Aaron Johnston and others. The state law does not permit multiyear contracts and I suspect some of the Bison Faithful wish ND had that law in dealing with the retention of Craig Bohl since some have said NDSU can not afford to buy out Bohl's contract.

I am sure there are other issues too where everyone could work together. Its regrettal that the President's home project is turning out to be a sort of a rivalry thing when it should not be.

[NorCalJack]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Also, UND bought ad space in the NDSU student newspaper touting their online engineering programs(an NDSU strength).

The thing that pissed off the NDSU administration more than anything was that UND had given NDSU no warning that this ad campaign was coming.

If UND was buying ad space in the NDSU student paper, how come the NDSU admin was not aware of this? It just seems a little off base to claim that UND gave NDSU no warning, when they must have contacted someone to place an ad in the paper.

Sounds like someone has an axe to grind with UND.

[FargoBison]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

I have no idea why Chapman and the Foundation got into it or anything about his pending retirement.. but as I read this thread for the first time yesterday. I was very frustrated by the anti UND tone and that UND was somehow the primary source of the problem. My overall point is that UND had nothing to do with this and it is a internal NDSU issue. I wish NDSU the best and leave UND out of it.

I never said UND had anything to do with, Heitkamp going after Chapman had little or nothing to do with where he went to school and everything to do with personal issues. I was just saying there was a lot of ripping of NDSU and little about UND. There are at least a few hypocrites in the state legislature that were running around saying NDSU committed crimes but haven't said a peep about the school they attended that did basically the same thing.

This entire issue does center around the fact that NDSU Foundation didn't know how to manage their money. Chapman resigning had some to do with that, some to do with the media circus that was going on, and probably some to do with the fact that his career was coming to an end so it just wasn't worth it anymore.

[FargoBison]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

If UND was buying ad space in the NDSU student paper, how come the NDSU admin was not aware of this? It just seems a little off base to claim that UND gave NDSU no warning, when they must have contacted someone to place an ad in the paper.

Sounds like someone has an axe to grind with UND.

The NDSU student newspaper handles its own advertising, I wouldn't be at all surprised if NDSU admin didn't know about it until they saw it when the paper was printed.

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

The UND/NDSU thing really is hard for me to fathom..... The depth of the bitterness really amazes me.

Take MBAs for instance, USD undoubtedly keeps SDSU from having an MBA program. SDSU all but has the faculty and coursework in place for an MBA program. But, does SD really need two MBA programs? A question, IMO, that can legitimately be asked about North Dakota as well.

If the growth of the NDSU business program has been, basically, at the expense of the established UND business program, then, IMO, UND has a legitimate complaint. The SBoHE has basically funded a competitor to a program that it's already funding.

It does irk me that SDSU's liberal arts offerings are somewhat hamstrung by USD's prior claims in that area, but that's about the only area where I think SDSU is being done a disservice by USD. From the USD side, I couldn't possibly figure out an area where SDSU is stepping on their toes. Chemistry, maybe?

[Hammersmith]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

It depends on a lot of factors. Where are the existing resources? Where are the students? How many students are interested in a given program? What campus(es) have the best fit with a given program? Are there local industries that want to support a program? To say we just can't have duplicates is one of those easy things to say that might not work out in real life.

If we're going to have six distinct campuses in our system (a questionable assumption, I would say) we have to give them some autonomy to create programs that make them viable options for students. A hard-and-fast "no duplicates" rule (and I'm not even sure that's what you mean here) limits local campus options and means that as times change, they cannot remain viable.

We're not stupid people. Nobody wants to create another medical school. But should we shut down one nationally accredited journalism program (for example) because there is another nationally accredited journalism program in the state? What if both programs are stable, viable, and successful?

Exactly. Many of the grad programs that NDSU wished to start were either new to the state or were programs that had waiting lists at UND. I remember one in particular because it was in my field. UND had a doctorate in education that had a long waiting list and they had no plans to expand the program. NDSU documented this when they went to the SBoHE with their request for a similar program. The board granted the request over UND's objections and, several years later, both programs are healthy and running at capacity. In general, minimizing duplication is good thing. But there are specific areas where duplication is the healthy position.

Why did I write that previous post? It wasn't because of bitterness or anything of the like. Other posters had brought up half-remembered stories that were inaccurate to the point of reversal. If discussion were to continue, I wanted everyone to be working off of the correct facts. Also, the events I described were really the beginning of the horrible relationship between the administrations of the two schools for the past decade. Chapman and Kupchella were hired at the same time(1999) and they did not get along at all. All the stories came from the first few years of their tenures. Things didn't improve until Kupchella retired last year and Kelley was hired to replace him. All reports since then seem to indicate that Chapman and Kelley were getting along very well and several new cooperative programs were on the drawing boards.

I never disliked UND the institution, but I did dislike several individuals in leadership positions there. I've always felt that Kupchella was a very bad fit for UND. I think Kuppy would have excelled as the president of a 5,000-10,000 student DIII private school that focused solely on academics, or as the provost of a larger state school like U of MN, U of MI, Ohio State, etc. Kuppy had a tendency to focus on academics to the point of neglecting other areas(athletics, research, outreach, alumni connections). You can do that at certain schools, but not at schools like ours(SDSU/NDSU/UND). Chapman's predecessor at NDSU(Plough) was one of these types, and we are forever grateful that he left after only a few years. It's still early, but Kelley has been saying and doing the right things so far. Hopefully he's a good fit for the long run(Kelley's last job was as dean of a med school, so we've got no track record to work from). We(NDSU supporters) also hope that our next president is far more like Chapman than Plough or Kupchella.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

The UND/NDSU thing really is hard for me to fathom..... The depth of the bitterness really amazes me.

Take MBAs for instance, USD undoubtedly keeps SDSU from having an MBA program. SDSU all but has the faculty and coursework in place for an MBA program. But, does SD really need two MBA programs? A question, IMO, that can legitimately be asked about North Dakota as well.

If the growth of the NDSU business program has been, basically, at the expense of the established UND business program, then, IMO, UND has a legitimate complaint. The SBoHE has basically funded a competitor to a program that it's already funding.

It does irk me that SDSU's liberal arts offerings are somewhat hamstrung by USD's prior claims in that area, but that's about the only area where I think SDSU is being done a disservice by USD. From the USD side, I couldn't possibly figure out an area where SDSU is stepping on their toes. Chemistry, maybe?

Most of this was in my previous post, but I want to reinforce it a bit. In the case of business at NDSU, there was more demand than UND was filling and UND was unwilling or unable to expand their program. I agree that one program shouldn't be started at the expense of another, but sometimes there's room for a duplicate program if the demand is great enough. In this case it was. NDSU's business program is growing dramatically and I don't believe UND has felt any major repercussions. There may come a time when the two programs will compete for the best students(UND has a clear lead in this area), but that might actually benefit both institutions as well as the students as long as there are enough quality students to keep both programs full.

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Most of this was in my previous post, but I want to reinforce it a bit. In the case of business at NDSU, there was more demand than UND was filling and UND was unwilling or unable to expand their program. I agree that one program shouldn't be started at the expense of another, but sometimes there's room for a duplicate program if the demand is great enough. In this case it was. NDSU's business program is growing dramatically and I don't believe UND has felt any major repercussions. There may come a time when the two programs will compete for the best students(UND has a clear lead in this area), but that might actually benefit both institutions as well as the students as long as there are enough quality students to keep both programs full.

Curious. Sioux Falls has an unaccredited business program at USF (at least, last I knew it wasn't accredited by the AACSB--correct me if I'm wrong, somebody), and variously accredited business programs offered by Colorado Tech and Globe University--

Are there similar offerings in Fargo/Grand Forks?

AFAIK, the USD business school is pretty responsive to the community and doesn't really need another public entity competing with it. They've got a few different degree tracks, including a majority online track with Sioux Falls classroom time.

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SDSU's chemistry Ph.D is offered in conjunction with USD.

[Hammersmith]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Curious. Sioux Falls has an unaccredited business program at USF (at least, last I knew it wasn't accredited by the AACSB--correct me if I'm wrong, somebody), and variously accredited business programs offered by Colorado Tech and Globe University--

Are there similar offerings in Fargo/Grand Forks?

AFAIK, the USD business school is pretty responsive to the community and doesn't really need another public entity competing with it. They've got a few different degree tracks, including a majority online track with Sioux Falls classroom time.

-----

SDSU's chemistry Ph.D is offered in conjunction with USD.

According to the AACSB website, USD is the only accredited business program in SD and NDSU & UND are the only ones in ND. There are several private 2-year schools in Fargo & GF that offer business degrees. Also, Mayville State(halfway between F & GF), Moorhead State, and Valley City State(40mi west of Fargo) all have non-accredited four year business programs. UND's MBA and applied econ masters programs have online versions, and I know NDSU was pushing some new online offerings pretty hard here in Fargo(lots of billboards about a year back).

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

According to the AACSB website, USD is the only accredited business program in SD and NDSU & UND are the only ones in ND. There are several private 2-year schools in Fargo & GF that offer business degrees. Also, Mayville State(halfway between F & GF), Moorhead State, and Valley City State(40mi west of Fargo) all have non-accredited four year business programs. UND's MBA and applied econ masters programs have online versions, and I know NDSU was pushing some new online offerings pretty hard here in Fargo(lots of billboards about a year back).

That might explain why there was more of a demand for an MBA in ND than in SD. USF, Colorado Tech, and the Minnesota School of Business will all give you an MBA in SF, and USF really flogs their business program in the local media--it's probably their most well known offering.....

[SDSF]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Why would the foundation hurt NDSU to get rid of Chapman? They are the fundraising arm of NDSU and they came out of this looking like a bunch of idiots who don't know how to manage their money. What you are saying they did would only hurt their ability to raise money.

This all came after they limited some of the money they gave Chapman and put into place measures that would better control what was spent.

It would have been far easier to just tell Chapman to retire in peace at the end of the year if they had a problem with the guy. My guess is the press got a piece of info somehow(maybe a disgruntled foundation member) and the Foundation had to cave or look like they were hiding something.

That lead to a media feeding frenzy that Heitkamp had been stoking for months. It was all kind of perfect storm.

I do believe Chapman was going to retire, his state of the university address seemed to hint of him looking back instead of looking forward.

You raise fair points and only people with the detailed information really know. At this point, it is pure speculation on my part. But, I agree somebody at the Foundation or the Foundation itself that was leaking information. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out..

[SDSF]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

It depends on a lot of factors. Where are the existing resources? Where are the students? How many students are interested in a given program? What campus(es) have the best fit with a given program? Are there local industries that want to support a program? To say we just can't have duplicates is one of those easy things to say that might not work out in real life.

If we're going to have six distinct campuses in our system (a questionable assumption, I would say) we have to give them some autonomy to create programs that make them viable options for students. A hard-and-fast "no duplicates" rule (and I'm not even sure that's what you mean here) limits local campus options and means that as times change, they cannot remain viable.

We're not stupid people. Nobody wants to create another medical school. But should we shut down one nationally accredited journalism program (for example) because there is another nationally accredited journalism program in the state? What if both programs are stable, viable, and successful?

I agree with all of your points, but the system of the higher education system should be carefully managed. I am not sure that all schools in North Dakota agree with this type of approach and tend to play more of a zero sum game with public dollars. Again, I am not an insider. But, I try to say current on topics. When I read these types of articles, I recognize that the true is somewhere in the middle. But, when you have a state official coming out with these types of comments in public, I get very concerned about the general public welfare and are we being served in an appropriate manner. You couple that with recent activities and you start to see a trend. Who was the person that was difficult to work with?

http://chronicle.com/article/North-D...ancellor/37175

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

somebody at the Foundation or the Foundation itself that was leaking information

IMO, that doesn't necessarily lead to a conclusion that the whole Foundation, or even a majority of board members, or even a minor faction, wanted to boot Chapman.

It could be as simple as a single employee, disgruntled with perceived abuses. And that employee could even be working at the accounting firm that handles the Foundation's books, not necessarily the foundation itself.

[SDSF]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

I never said UND had anything to do with, Heitkamp going after Chapman had little or nothing to do with where he went to school and everything to do with personal issues. I was just saying there was a lot of ripping of NDSU and little about UND. There are at least a few hypocrites in the state legislature that were running around saying NDSU committed crimes but haven't said a peep about the school they attended that did basically the same thing.

This entire issue does center around the fact that NDSU Foundation didn't know how to manage their money. Chapman resigning had some to do with that, some to do with the media circus that was going on, and probably some to do with the fact that his career was coming to an end so it just wasn't worth it anymore.

Peace, I may have read too much into your post. I think the primary difference between the heat that NDSU received and versus UND comes down to two things. UND's house issues are associated with the previous president and as noted in this blog.

With just the home alone, NDSU chose to go over the $900,000 limit, hoping to get in-kind contributions, meaning donated goods and services to make up the shortfall. In-kind contributions, because they don't involve money, would not have to be authorized by the SBHE.

UND tried to hit the mark and thought it had until it discovered that $23,000 in expenses had been mistakenly coded as another project. So now it's over by $19,600.

Basically, NDSU took a calculated risk and the economy turned south.

LINK: http://www.areavoices.com/gfhcitybeat/

[SDSF]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

IMO, that doesn't necessarily lead to a conclusion that the whole Foundation, or even a majority of board members, or even a minor faction, wanted to boot Chapman.

It could be as simple as a single employee, disgruntled with perceived abuses. And that employee could even be working at the accounting firm that handles the Foundation's books, not necessarily the foundation itself.

Yes all of the cases that you have mentioned above could be true... my comment is pure speculation on my part.