Ndsu president chapman resigns.

[RabbitObsessed]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Good insights FB. Having gone through a similar situation with the resignation of our athletic director (and the resultant stepping WAY out of bounds on follow up stories by the Argus Leader), I understand where you are coming from. Early stories didn't mention, BTW, that the $900,000 initial projected cost was fully funded by a donor, whom I assume wanted to see the President of the University have a proper house to live in and entertain in. And I know that Chapman was only a couple of years from retiring anyway...so I doubt it was "vanity" on his, or his wife's, part.

What stories went out of bounds?

[Nidaros]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

What stories went out of bounds?

The one about the USD fans being overly nice to our former AD.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Helpful information here from FB. Thanks. My point about 11 years probably being enough still stands, though. New leadership can be a very good thing. Especially when the prior administration has put together such a solid record of accomplishment to build on.

I assume the donors for the president's new home, per Nidaros' comment, were the Marcil family, owners of the Fargo Forum. Good people who have built a chain of media organizations the right way. And yes, I did work for them in the early 1990s.

[SF_Rabbit_Fan]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

$2 million for a house seems pretty extravagant. Yes, he has to entertain, but go on a parade of homes or two and see what $900K will get you, and tell me you can't build a very nice house for that number. I would guess there are less than 50 houses in the entire city of Sioux Falls worth $2 million, and I would guess all of those were built with private money.

For the record, if Chapman wants to use his own money to build a $2 million dollar house, I have no problem with that. But using public funds/foundation funds is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. That extra million would have been put to much better use in the form of scholarships or other campus improvements.

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Problem seems to me that even if Chapman's gone the old boy network remains.

Chapman (or Mrs. Chapman) may have gotten a bit too comfortable with the perks and perquisites of the job, but who's to say whether the next guy won't end up in the same boat---lulled into carelessness by money with too few strings attached.

(which isn't to say that SDSU's 'that's a 95 year old building with 94 years of deferred maintenance' policies have always been best, either).

[Hammersmith]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Just a quick comment*(maybe more tomorrow if I feel like it).

Everyone likes to call it Chapman's or the president's house/home/mansion as if that's all it does. In reality, it's about 2.5 buildings in one. Part of it is the family residence, but it also has to serve as a secondary office and as a place for small, elite university gatherings. In this case, small is between 5 and 25-50. That includes space for meals and outdoor gatherings with occasional live entertainment. These different needs require duplication of services that drive up the cost significantly beyond a standard home. For instance, you need two kitchens. One would be a fairly standard kitchen with regular(if nice) appliances meant for the family. The other kitchen would be filled with commercial-type units meant to be used as a staging area for catering. Probably with small walk-in cooler and some of those big warming ovens, among other things. You'll also have duplication of bathrooms, dining rooms, informal sitting areas, etc. Even the outdoor areas have to be duplicated. A patio area for entertaining a group of 50 functions as a lousy backyard for small children(young president or grandchildren of an older one), and vice versa.

Now some would argue that NDSU doesn't need that complete of a facility and should have just stuck to a family residence. I think that's nuts. This house will have to last NDSU for at least 25 years without major renovations. NDSU will probably hit 15k next year, 17.5k within five years, and might just hit 20k within 10 years(long shot, but quite possible). A university of that size needs a high-end location to wine and dine big donors, senior elected officials, fellow university presidents, and other distinguished visitors. Before now, there was no location on campus that was suitable. They either had to use an off-campus fine restaurant, a facility too large for the group, or a facility the correct size but not nearly nice enough for the purpose. Now, they can do it all in a beautiful facility within a stone's throw of several of the oldest and most attractive buildings on campus.

Sure, one or two million can build an overly lavish home if all the money is used for the private residence. But I bet less than a quarter of it actually went into the interior private spaces. Probably about half went into the indoor and outdoor public spaces, and the rest went into demolition of the old house and other site prep and infrastructure. I thought from day one that $1 million was not going to be nearly enough to do it right. Since NDSU spent about $2 million and UND spent $1.7 million to do the same thing, I suspect I was right.


*okay, maybe not quite so quick

[gojacksgo]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Excellent information Hammer. When did UND build their president's house? Has it been in the recent years?

[FargoBison]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Excellent information Hammer. When did UND build their president's house? Has it been in the recent years?

They just finished their home as well. The owner of Forum Communications donated $1 million to both campuses to build new houses.

Both originally had budgets of just under $1 million.

[FargoBison]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

This is what makes me mad, NDSU has been ripped apart for this and a certain school up North has basically been given a pass.....

All in all, UND spent $263,800 in public funds, 42 percent of which came from state appropriations and tuition. The rest came from locally-generated revenue, such as leases and royalty income. NDSU spent $574,000 in public funds, none of which came from appropriations or tuition. Nearly all came from local revenue.

Heitkamp and the UND grads in the state legislature don't even acknowledge what happened over at their beloved alma mater.

[gojacksgo]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

This is what makes me mad, NDSU has been ripped apart for this and a certain school up North has basically been given a pass.....



Heitkamp and the UND grads in the state legislature don't even acknowledge what happened over at their beloved alma mater.

Interesting as well. Seems there is a bias because on bisonville another poster had several quotes from many regents members and legislatures, and a couple went as far as to say that the house was the only reason he was fired.

Here is just one of them:

North Dakota Rep. Bob Skarphol, R-Tioga, said he’d like to see a new NDSU president “more grounded in North Dakota tradition.”

In the wake of Chapman’s resignation, Skarphol said it’s clear that higher education needs to be more transparent. He said the state’s universities have about 5,400 fiscal accounts, more than 5,000 more than the rest of state government combined.

“Any auditor will have extreme difficulty finding the path of the money,” said Skarphol, chairman of the House Higher Education Committee, adding about Chapman’s recent controversy: “A $1 million house was excessive in my mind; a $2 million house is grossly excessive.”

Taken from Bisonville

Link: http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18009

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

The other kitchen would be filled with commercial-type units meant to be used as a staging area for catering. Probably with small walk-in cooler and some of those big warming ovens, among other things. You'll also have duplication of bathrooms, dining rooms, informal sitting areas, etc. Even the outdoor areas have to be duplicated. A patio area for entertaining a group of 50 functions as a lousy backyard for small children(young president or grandchildren of an older one), and vice versa.

Compare the new & old governor's mansions in Pierre for a similar example.

At SDSU, Tompkins Alumni Center can provide similar services, and SDSU may opt to improve Tompkins to provide hospitality services on the level of the president's residence in Fargo. I don't see SDSU ever tearing down Woodbine Cottage, it's not readily repurposed for any other use, and it's just been invested in. The Alvilda Myre Sorenson/UPD building would probably go first...

[Nidaros]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

Just a quick comment*(maybe more tomorrow if I feel like it).

Everyone likes to call it Chapman's or the president's house/home/mansion as if that's all it does. In reality, it's about 2.5 buildings in one. Part of it is the family residence, but it also has to serve as a secondary office and as a place for small, elite university gatherings. In this case, small is between 5 and 25-50. That includes space for meals and outdoor gatherings with occasional live entertainment. These different needs require duplication of services that drive up the cost significantly beyond a standard home. For instance, you need two kitchens. One would be a fairly standard kitchen with regular(if nice) appliances meant for the family. The other kitchen would be filled with commercial-type units meant to be used as a staging area for catering. Probably with small walk-in cooler and some of those big warming ovens, among other things. You'll also have duplication of bathrooms, dining rooms, informal sitting areas, etc. Even the outdoor areas have to be duplicated. A patio area for entertaining a group of 50 functions as a lousy backyard for small children(young president or grandchildren of an older one), and vice versa.

Now some would argue that NDSU doesn't need that complete of a facility and should have just stuck to a family residence. I think that's nuts. This house will have to last NDSU for at least 25 years without major renovations. NDSU will probably hit 15k next year, 17.5k within five years, and might just hit 20k within 10 years(long shot, but quite possible). A university of that size needs a high-end location to wine and dine big donors, senior elected officials, fellow university presidents, and other distinguished visitors. Before now, there was no location on campus that was suitable. They either had to use an off-campus fine restaurant, a facility too large for the group, or a facility the correct size but not nearly nice enough for the purpose. Now, they can do it all in a beautiful facility within a stone's throw of several of the oldest and most attractive buildings on campus.

Sure, one or two million can build an overly lavish home if all the money is used for the private residence. But I bet less than a quarter of it actually went into the interior private spaces. Probably about half went into the indoor and outdoor public spaces, and the rest went into demolition of the old house and other site prep and infrastructure. I thought from day one that $1 million was not going to be nearly enough to do it right. Since NDSU spent about $2 million and UND spent $1.7 million to do the same thing, I suspect I was right.


*okay, maybe not quite so quick

As usual Hammer comes here with thoughtful posts and I feel more enlighten by what he has said. I was surprised that Chapman gave up so easy on this media frenzy, but if you are one year in age less than I am (68) and are about to retire why not sooner than later.

I suspect that a thorough explanation will be forthcoming and when all the details are known its likely to be more about NDSU-UND forces clashing in places other than the athletic field. The two institutions do have their differences and affect the Board of Higher Education, the legislature and even the Governor, who also is a UND grad but has been rather silent about the whole matter and perhaps no one has asked him.

It does make you think about SDSU and its current set up. I would agree with Zoorpa in that because of historical reasons, Woodbine Cottage will exist well into the future. What the next president after Chicoine wants for a residence could be an issue. I do recall Peggy Miller was allergic to cats and this was a problem for her since the Wagners had pets that included cats. Peggy could not live at Woodbine and she lived in a motel for a few weeks while Woodbine was fumegated. As SDSU grows along with NDSU in student enrollment and research, future presidents are going to want a new residence or something other than Woodbine. Right now Tompkins is kind of small and works for some events, but not what a President would want or need so who knows what is in SDSU's future. I do know we need to fix CAS.

[JackJD]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

I haven't paid a great deal of attention to the politics of higher education in North Dakota. Perhaps I have some bias for our fellow travelers in transition, NDSU, but it appears quite clear that people aligned with UND really go out of their way to hurt NDSU. Even in some of the darkest days of the SDSU and USD rivalry, the nastiness didn't come close to what goes on north of our border. Things are going on now that can be harmful to the educational institutions themselves and that's not good for the state's taxpayers.

[zooropa]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

it appears quite clear that people aligned with UND really go out of their way to hurt NDSU

I think that's because NDSU has been better run over the last decade or so, and has grown much more dramatically, surpassing UND in enrollment and (probably) endowment, etc.

UND has basically seen its role as 'flagship' called into question, and I don't think that sits well with UND boosters, UND 'lifers', UND alums, etc.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Ndsu president chapman resigns.

NDSU isn't the only campus with a president house problem. This happened a few years back at Eastern Michigan Univ.

Fallon firing just latest chapter in EMU turmoil

By Steve Pepple

July 16, 2007, 7:38AM

Ann Arbor News file photoThe University House was the center of a statewide scandal in 2004 after then-EMU President Samuel Kirkpatrick spend more than $6 million to build it.


John Fallon's exit as president of Eastern Michigan University marks the latest chapter at an institution plagued by conflict and short-term leaders in recent years.

Three years earlier, EMU faced a statewide firestorm when construction of a new president's house went far above budget, prompting a state investigation and the exit of the then-university president.

Next came Samuel Kirkpatrick, a name now synonymous with the University House scandal. After his hiring in 2000, Kirkpatrick said he needed a larger university-owned home for fundraising events and gatherings.
By 2004, Kirkpatrick was at the center of criticism over construction of the $6 million house - built on Hewitt Road near Rynearson Stadium - which a state investigation determined cost $2.5 million more than originally announced.
Kirkpatrick resigned in June 2004 with a departure package totaling $514,000. The resignation and buyout - which included a clause preventing regents or Kirkpatrick from criticizing each other - drew intense criticism. He left to take a job as a senior fellow with the American Association of State Colleges and Universities in Washington, D.C., the same organization he worked for before coming to EMU.