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MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

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  • MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

    http://www.d2messageboard.com/showthread.php?t=86333

    I always like these what-if subjects. This started out is a comparison between the MIAA vs. MVFC but quickly centered on whether Northwest Missouri could compete in the MVFC. I remember being on a cruise with a guy from Frisco TX who followed the Big 12 closely but saw each of NDSU's national championships. His take was that NDSU would have finished from fifth to eighth in the Big 12, but the quality of the teams from year to year made very little difference in that whether they good or fair on a FBS basis they were always better than anything else in FCS. I think the same thing applys here.

    If you don't want to hit the link, here's the most cogent evaluation of NW Missouri on this thread:

    "I think this is an excellent post, and that leads me to a point that i wish I had made in my first post.
    The best teams in the MIAA are filled with FCS level talent. But even NW would not have the depth of talent to compete with the top half of that conference. Starters for starters they could match up well, but backups and depth is a huge difference. As elite as NW's dline is/was, there is a drop off when the two's come in. A drive gets to play 6 or 7 and the starters need a breather, then big plays break.

    I think athlete for athlete position it isn't as huge of discrepancy as it is with line play. Interior OL in the MIAA conference are probably made up of lower scholarship, sometimes undersized guys. I think they'd get worn down or exposed more against waves of FCS DT's. I also think the size and Athleticism of an FCS TE/OT nullifies the NW ends ability to beat every dbl team like they pretty much did last year."

    I think this describes what would happen to the Bearcats in FCS and also what would happen to the Bizon in FBS.

    I asked this same question of Jed Stugart and his take was although the Coo beat UND during transition they could never do it today and no D2 team could get close to NDSU. I do think Northwest would beat the crap out of Missouri State however. I think Stugart will also find there's quite a difference in quality between the MIAA and the Northern Sun, at least until they ramp up their schollys.

    I saw the MU-SDSU game a couple of years ago and the Jacks hung with them for a half and then wore down. Think Northwest could knock some teams off but the talent would quickly thin out and they'd have about a .500 season.

  • #2
    Re: MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

    Realistically is they probably would be closer to a USD type of season if they went the distance. 2-3 wins, maybe knock if someone they weren't supposed to, but their depth would kill them. They would likely have a bunch of close games and would rarely get blown out. The difference between FCS and DII scholarships is huge compared to the difference between FCS and FBS. It's pretty close to only half of FCS. That's a big deal.

    The overall answer to this is pretty easy though. In a one off game, they have a punchers chance against most of the teams, just like in FCS vs FBS matchups. Full season though? Not great. Now if they picked a conference like the OVC or the Southland, that's probably a different story. Picking the MVFC is like asking how SDSU or NDSU would do in the B1G East or the ACC/SEC West instead of the MAC or CUSA.

    After reading the thread I'm fairly surprised at how pessimistic they are about moving up to FCS. It sounds like they have a similar budget to what we had before the move up. But I don't have much in depth knowledge into their situation, just surprised they don't see what the XDSUs have done and wondered why they could be similar. Hell, if I saw App State or someone moved to FBS like they did, then get into the ACC and be perennial natty contenders I wouldn't have the super negative outlook on moving to FBS. Which is part of why FCS is awesome and FBS sucks.


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    • #3
      Re: MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

      I do think there are are FCS conferences Northwest Mo would win. The Northeast, for example. I also think they're probably the best D2 program ever, including NDSU in the day. Had a long conversation with a UNO fan at the Jacks-Omaha game and he thought they dropped football because of a realization that the program was too weak to compete against NWMSU. But .500 at best in the Valley and badly beat up in the process.

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      • #4
        Re: MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

        So why does Mo St. Continue to struggle?

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        • #5
          Re: MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

          I think they would compete just fine if they moved up...as long as they stepped up the funding to be on par with what they want their peer institutions to be. Winning programs win. These people that talk about NDSU (and NW Missouri St) not being able to hang around for a whole season act like the programs would keep their same scholarship level. If NDSU and NW Missouri St upped their scholarship totals to league max there is no reason to think they would not compete. I would say it would be quite a bit easier for NW Missouri St to be successful in the MVFC than it would be for NDSU to be successful in the Big 12, though. Northern Colorado won two titles in DII before moving up, but I would argue they weren't a winning program (mindset of the powers that be) and they fell apart (like the majority do). Right now Georgia Southern is really suffering in FBS...money problems are forcing them to think small. That is the biggest problem that I see for programs looking to move up...that and not getting successful coaches poached (huge problem for Georgia Southern).

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          • #6
            Re: MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

            Originally posted by slosho View Post
            So why does Mo St. Continue to struggle?

            Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk
            Coaching turnover has a great deal to do with it and luke warm support from admin. An In dept interview with former coach Terry Allen would tell us more.

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            • #7
              Re: MIAA vs. MVFC (or really Northwest Missouri against MVFC)

              Debate on these boards about whether SDSU is football or basketball school. You don't have to ask that question in Springfield. Terry Allen had a pretty good reputation that got wrecked there. Students clear out at halftime-- I mean totally and that was homecoming "let's see who's queen". Horrible game day experience. Admission is cheap though, think I got a seniors ticket for about $10.

              NWMSU can compete on the field and court, at least in the last few years, but doubt if it's large enough to compete a full D1 program. Too small and sits on the same footprint as Missouri Western. Thank you Gov. Warren Hearnes for upgrading junior colleges and further diluting higher ed in Missouri. And, the regional colleges have agricultural programs to go along with two separate land grants. That can't be cheap.

              The obvious school to make a full D1 move would be Central Missouri which has the enrollment and facilities to fit, plus the best logo. Love that red badass mule. KC media may give them a bit more PR than marginal programs like SIUE get in St. Louis (or IUPUI in Indy-- good riddance).

              Lindenwood is the only football school in Metro St. Louis and I'm sure Stugart got a huge increase from his Coo salary. They historically pay very well. Nice facilities but too small for D1 although they almost bought the 10,000+ seat Family Arena a few years ago. International enrollment is down on Trump Scare so they may not be rolling in as much money in the future. Think they have the conference's second largest athletic budget. St Charles County has half the population of South Dakota so if he can build interest there's some potential even if the rest of St Louis ignores him--and it's better than competing with ten programs in South Dakota.

              They're on the outside of the MIAA footprint, travel partners with Lincoln which might present problems if Lincoln bolts to the GLVC in basketball. Lincoln sure couldn't compete in football. I'd say if Stugart doesn't turn it around there's a chance they might drop football and try to join the Summit. Stugart does have a 430 lb. DEFENSIVE lineman however and that's surely a sight to see. Put up almost 700 yeards on Northeastern State last week but that's like putting up 700 yards on Crookston. Have a feeling he'll find out that the MIAA isn't the Northern Sun as the year progresses.

              Lindenwood also has more than half of their students in athletics of one sort or another, they feature a bewildering array of stuff. Very dynamic AD who is a vice president.
              Last edited by Grizzled_Jack; 09-13-2017, 02:45 PM. Reason: iclarification

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