Fargo Flood

[BitsTD]

Re: Fargo Flood

I might get whacked about this but I think it needs to be said. I believe what the people of Fargo and Moorhead have done should serve as a model to the rest of America. Rather than whine in front of a CNN microphone about the lack of government help, those folks up north rolled up their sleeves and got busy. The work was hard and the conditions miserable. Yet you didn't hear anybody complaining. Instead of putting their hands out for assistance those people put their hands out to grab another sandbag. Damn proud...damn proud of all of you.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, Cowbell. I have been saying this for years about the upper Midwest. People in the upper Midwest don't know how not to help.

[tjbison]

Re: Fargo Flood

I might get whacked about this but I think it needs to be said. I believe what the people of Fargo and Moorhead have done should serve as a model to the rest of America. Rather than whine in front of a CNN microphone about the lack of government help, those folks up north rolled up their sleeves and got busy. The work was hard and the conditions miserable. Yet you didn't hear anybody complaining. Instead of putting their hands out for assistance those people put their hands out to grab another sandbag. Damn proud...damn proud of all of you.

Thank you all very much!!! I passed a SD highway Patrol on on I-94 this morning doing about 80 by 25th st and flashed him my contractor badge he just waved!!! BTW that was really fun

But your post hit it on the head, been building levees in the backyards of some VERY expensive homes and non are giving up or complaining!!

[Hammersmith]

Re: Fargo Flood

A question for some of you South Dakota guys:

Growing up in Wahpeton, I know that the Red River doesn't actually begin until about 200 yards north of the Dakota/Minnesota Ave bridge in Wahpeton/Breckenridge, where the Otter Tail River joins with the Bois de Sioux. Even though it's not technically correct, most people living south of Wahpeton call it the Red River and rarely use the Bois de Sioux name in general usage. I'm wondering what the usage is closer to Lake Traverse. Do South Dakotans in that area use the Bois de Sioux name, or do they also call it the Red River?

[JackJD]

Re: Fargo Flood

I've lived in the Watertown area my entire life but have spent some time close to Lakes Traverse and Big Stone. I had always heard the name Red River and never the Bois de Sioux. I think the first time I became aware ofthe name Bois de Sioux was when I saw it on a map many years ago.

[Roy]

Re: Fargo Flood

A question for some of you South Dakota guys:

Growing up in Wahpeton, I know that the Red River doesn't actually begin until about 200 yards north of the Dakota/Minnesota Ave bridge in Wahpeton/Breckenridge, where the Otter Tail River joins with the Bois de Sioux. Even though it's not technically correct, most people living south of Wahpeton call it the Red River and rarely use the Bois de Sioux name in general usage. I'm wondering what the usage is closer to Lake Traverse. Do South Dakotans in that area use the Bois de Sioux name, or do they also call it the Red River?

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My Grandparents homesteaded on Lake Traverse. Some time after the dirty and dry 1930s a weir was installed at the north end of the lake to maintain a water level in Traverse. Immediately down stream of the wier (north) is Mud Lake which, most of the time is just a giant area of cat tails. Up by White Rock, east of Rosholt, it flows into the Bois de Sioux with a bit more of a defined watercourse. It's still the Bois de Sioux when it flows into ND. The continental devide is at Browns Valley, MN with water falling to the south of there flowing into Big Stone Lake and on to the Minnesota/Mississippi Rivers.

[Nidaros]

Re: Fargo Flood

\

My Grandparents homesteaded on Lake Traverse. Some time after the dirty and dry 1930s a weir was installed at the north end of the lake to maintain a water level in Traverse. Immediately down stream of the wier (north) is Mud Lake which, most of the time is just a giant area of cat tails. Up by White Rock, east of Rosholt, it flows into the Bois de Sioux with a bit more of a defined watercourse. It's still the Bois de Sioux when it flows into ND. The continental devide is at Browns Valley, MN with water falling to the south of there flowing into Big Stone Lake and on to the Minnesota/Mississippi Rivers.

Roy:
This is very interesting and helpful.

I wish I had the opportunity to major in geography but the major got started after 1965 which was when I left. I am in the area, so could still major in it, if I had the time and money. I might have the answer to my own question if I did this.

I understand the continential divide concept and its marked on I-29 etc. What I don't understand is that the Missouri in North Dakota is parellel with the Big Red and why does the Missouri flow south instead of north as the Red does? Is it about gravity or are there other factors? The reason I mentioned gravity was that I was under the impression that the earth curved at this point and this caused the flow to the north on the Red, but is it the nearby lakes and their flows that cause the Red to flow north?

[Roy]

Re: Fargo Flood

Roy:
This is very interesting and helpful.

I wish I had the opportunity to major in geography but the major got started after 1965 which was when I left. I am in the area, so could still major in it, if I had the time and money. I might have the answer to my own question if I did this.

I understand the continential divide concept and its marked on I-29 etc. What I don't understand is that the Missouri in North Dakota is parellel with the Big Red and why does the Missouri flow south instead of north as the Red does? Is it about gravity or are there other factors? The reason I mentioned gravity was that I was under the impression that the earth curved at this point and this caused the flow to the north on the Red, but is it the nearby lakes and their flows that cause the Red to flow north?

Its the topography and gravity. There is a ridge of high ground between the Missouri Basin and the Red River Basin. With a topographic map you can draw a line from high spot to high spot. That line is the continental divide. Probably the glaciers had an effect on the location of that line. Its just like a big golf green depending on where the ball lands it will head for a lower elevation (away from the hole in my case!). A foot either way and it may roll off the other side of the green (continent).

[Hammersmith]

Re: Fargo Flood

In the case of the Red River, it flows north due to a couple factors. First, during the last ice age, massive glaciers covered the area and compressed the soil. The further north you go, the heavier the glaciers were and the longer they were in place. A second major factor is what happened as the glaciers melted and receded. Due to the overall shape of the surrounding area, there was nowhere for the melting ice to go, so it pooled and became a virtual inland sea(Lake Agassiz) that was larger than all the modern Great Lakes combined. The southern finger of Lake Agassiz encompassed all of the Red River Valley down to Lake Traverse(you can see the very tip of the ancient shoreline as you drive along I-29, north of Summit). Over 5,000-10,000 years, sedimentary deposits and plant and animal remains settled on the lake bed, flattening it even further and creating the rich soil the Red River Valley is known for. After draining for the final time into Hudson Bay, the remaining drainage basin did not carry enough moisture to gouge a deep river channel into the clay of the former lake bed. As such, the Red meanders greatly along an almost perfectly flat plain. From Wahpeton to the Canadian border, the elevation only drops about 200 feet; a 1:5000 gradient.

Over the last 10,000 years, the soil has slowly been recovering from the glacial pressures. While unlikely, there is a chance that the land will rebound to the point where the Red reverses direction and flows into Traverse rather than out. Of course, this would be in the neighborhood of 50,000-200,000 years from now, so it's not as if we'll be around to see it.

[Nidaros]

Re: Fargo Flood

Thanks those were good explanations. It seems to be surprise, even to my self that when a flood relating the Big Red River occurs in ND, that dah, it flows north and not south. Thanks again.

[tjbison]

Re: Fargo Flood

Roy:
This is very interesting and helpful.

I wish I had the opportunity to major in geography but the major got started after 1965 which was when I left. I am in the area, so could still major in it, if I had the time and money. I might have the answer to my own question if I did this.

I understand the continential divide concept and its marked on I-29 etc. What I don't understand is that the Missouri in North Dakota is parellel with the Big Red and why does the Missouri flow south instead of north as the Red does? Is it about gravity or are there other factors? The reason I mentioned gravity was that I was under the impression that the earth curved at this point and this caused the flow to the north on the Red, but is it the nearby lakes and their flows that cause the Red to flow north?

If you drive west on I-94 from Fargo to the Montana line you will increase in elevation 1,000 to 1,500 ft depending on where you stop between SD and Canada, even driving to just Valley City is a huge (unoticable to the naked eye) increase in elevation thus the "Valley" Fargo sits in, going east you only have to go roughly 20 miles and you will see a major topographical difference in hills and Lakes in MN hence the "lakes country" part on MN

[NorCalJack]

Re: Fargo Flood

If you drive west on I-94 from Fargo to the Montana line you will increase in elevation 1,000 to 1,500 ft depending on where you stop between SD and Canada, even driving to just Valley City is a huge (unoticable to the naked eye) increase in elevation thus the "Valley" Fargo sits in, going east you only have to go roughly 20 miles and you will see a major topographical difference in hills and Lakes in MN hence the "lakes country" part on MN

Well you know the old saying, "Crap runs down hill". From Fargo it heads to Grand Forks and from Brookings it heads to Vermillion. That is why Grand Forks and Vermillion are refered to as "The Outhouse".

[JackJD]

Re: Fargo Flood

Lets avoid smack in a non-smack thread.

I'm concerned about the situation in Fargo with this new storm moving in. It sounds like the levees are high enough but blizzard conditions means wind and more snow. Everyone's praying the levees hold!

Is this weather ever going to get better? (I'm reminded that in the middle of last April, I was sitting in 60-degree, sunny weather watching the Drake Relays when a horrible blizzard was raging in NE South Dakota. So, I have to remind myself that warmer days are ahead.)

[Hammersmith]

Re: Fargo Flood

Yeah, we've got one winter storm moving in now, and another possibly hitting a week from now. On the good side, the Red is dropping at an increasingly rapid rate here in Fargo. As long as temps stay near freezing or below, the river should drop to the point where the coming moisture will have no real effect, even if it all melts at once. On the negative, Mayor Walaker is predicting a cleanup of at least two months and is asking for some of the National Guard/Corps of Engineers forces to be kept activated and in town to help with the heavy equipment work.

With the presidential disaster declaration, the feds may reimburse up to 90% of the flood preparation and cleanup costs. I'm hoping a few thousand of that will go toward cleaning and repainting parts of the Fargodome. The rafters haven't been cleaned since it opened, and a decade and a half of rodeos, monster truck events and circuses have left a coat of dust so thick that parts of the metalwork appear brown instead of green. Using the Fargodome as a sandbagging facility has added to that. Also, the railings and the yellow caution strips on the steps need a new coat of paint. It would be nice to combine the projects and spiff up the place.

[Cowbell]

Re: Fargo Flood

Hammersmith, I've really enjoyed what you've brought to this board. But, I have to tell you, your thoughts about using taxpayer's money (federal) to spruce up the FargoDome doesn't set well with me. Maybe it's just me ...

[Hammersmith]

Re: Fargo Flood

Hammersmith, I've really enjoyed what you've brought to this board. But, I have to tell you, your thoughts about using taxpayer's money (federal) to spruce up the FargoDome doesn't set well with me. Maybe it's just me ...

I'm mostly joking because I doubt it would ever happen, but I'm mainly talking about a pressure washing, not any type of remodeling or anything. The sandbagging has created quite a mess in the Fargodome and that will have to be cleaned up at somebody's expense. Stuff like that is exactly what disaster relief is for in situations like this(preparing for and cleaning up after a disaster). Look at it this way: Due to the efforts of the citizens of Fargo, Moorhead and the surrounding areas, the cities were almost completely saved from damage. Think of how much federal money would have been spent if we failed. Again, I doubt federal money would actually be used, but I've wanted that place cleaned from top to bottom for a couple years now, and this seems like a good time.

I hope I'm not coming across as angry or defensive; I don't mean to be. The amount of money I was thinking about was rather insignificant and not worthy of getting worked up over. If my tone is a bit upset, it mainly because I just watched a youtube video of some dumbf--k in Louisiana talking about how us lily-whites in North Dakota are given all the help we need from the feds and how we care less about any blacks in New Orleans. The idiot talks about the 3 million sandbags that were given to us and how the National Guard and the CoE are doing all this work that they didn't do for NO. Bullcrap. Almost all the sandbags were filled and the dikes were built before the feds got here. The Guard and the CoE have been wonderful, but their main contributions have been in rescue, maintaining the dikes, and building some of the contingency dikes(local contractors even did most of that). It also rankles a bit that the Dept of Homeland Security is still pressuring Walaker to order a complete evacuation of the city. I'm normally not into conspiracies, but it feels like the feds want an evac just to show they're doing something. I think they have so much egg on their face after Katrina, they want to use us as a success story, even though they had nothing to do with it(I'm not counting the Guard in that last statement).

youtube video: MIC MARAUDER STRONGPOINT 09 NEW ORLEANS VS NORTH DAKOTA FARGO