Computer advise

[JimmyJack]

Re: Computer advise

Simple? Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't a mac mouse only handle one button at a time?

OK. You're wrong. For several years now the Mac Mouse has four buttons and a scroll ball. You can program them however you want. The scroll ball actually scrolls in every direction, not just up and down. Even before that, the Mac OS supported multi-button, scrolling mice. I had one for literally a decade before Apple started including them with every desktop Mac. That's anti-Mac mythology you're spouting there.

Of course since most computers sold (as of last month) are now laptops, the mouse myth would be less relevant, even if it were true. The new MacBook and MacBook Pro actually have a multi-touch track pad that works like the screen on an iPod Touch. My wife's got one. Pinch two fingers and you zoom into a photo. Spread two fingers and you zoom out. Scroll with two fingers. Three fingers to flip through pages, etc.

By the way, got a high-end mouse you like? Plug it in and it'll work.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Computer advise

I'M beat me to the response on your wrongness, but if nothing else convinces you then look at the creativity in the ads behind Apple and Microsoft. Is it even close which ones are better?

[UTH]

Re: Computer advise

I'M beat me to the response on your wrongness, but if nothing else convinces you then look at the creativity in the ads behind Apple and Microsoft. Is it even close which ones are better?

You mean the same old "let's incessantly bad talk the other guy every chance we get" vs. introducing new products and talking about how great your own offerings are?

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Computer advise

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe almost every "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC." ad has discussed one feature that a Mac had that Windows didn't. I'll correct myself, but you still had to chuckle at the ads. I think one may have inspired a line of ongoing smack about bakesales.

[UTH]

Re: Computer advise

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe almost every "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC." ad has discussed one feature that a Mac had that Windows didn't. I'll correct myself, but you still had to chuckle at the ads. I think one may have inspired a line of ongoing smack about bakesales.

I don't think that's Mac's intent with that campaign. If it were a political campaign, there'd be a unanimous conclusion that it is a negative campaign. If Macs are so great, then why do they try to measure them against the PC Standard?

I'm sure that a huge, vast majority of people who see those ads pay no attention to anything except for the cutesy little "gotcha lines". Kids these days love a good smartass, regardless of the substance of the points that smartass might make. Mac's marketing department knows this and, IMHO, is exploiting the snot out of it.



*don't feel like perpetuating this debate. quietly backing out...

[EQguy]

Re: Computer advise

*don't feel like perpetuating this debate. quietly backing out...

UTH, you make me laugh. This debate is what it is through your perpetuations. Must be too much snow on the ground in beautiful Bismarck, ND.











*P.S I really do mean it about the make me laugh. I always look forward to seeing your posts.

[JimmieTuba]

Re: Computer advise

I love how the myth of no viruses or spyware for Mac keeps going. They are out there and they are nasty if they get into your system. The major difference is that still not enough people use Macs outside of work that there is a 'demand' for them.

That being said I am looking at replacing my seem-to-be-failing desktop with a Mac. I am planning on getting Bootcamp so I can also run Xp and a probably Ubantu.

The bonus side of a PC is the extreme customability of it. You can get exactly what you want and pretty sure it will be cheaper than a Mac.

I also find it interesting that people equate PC with you have to run Windows. Linux kernals out there are great! Especially if you aren't playing games.

[jackmd]

Re: Computer advise

I'm no computer guy and I look at it this way. Those who have a background in programming as part of their training prefer the Mac by a great amount over the PC, its not even close. Guys like me who are barely more than adequate when it comes to operating a system are more comfortable with a PC, that would be the majority of Americans. Gates or the people he associates with recognized that and ran with it. Mac stuck to their guns and they have a great product if you take the time to learn how to use it. I'm too lazy so I'm a Dell/Windows XP guy.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Computer advise

It is true that PCs are more customizable (if that is a word), but there have been many reviews, including in magazines that cover Windows based PCs, that indicate that the cost difference is negligible. Main reason being is that almost everything you want and need is included with a Mac software wise, that is not included with PCs. MicroSoft Office of course is the biggest exception, but as you say in regards to the operating systems, other alternatives are available for that also.

It will be interesting to see if Apple continues with this model. I would not be surprised if during this downturn in the economy, Apple makes some concessions on how it offers it lower end computers. I think however that they had half of the top ten selling computers on eBay during the Christmas season and only one was priced below $1000; while all the others were in the $500 range or lower.

Interesting times for the tech world for sure, but don't be surprised if the medical world comes to their rescue again. After the HIPAA requirements basically required most everyone to update their entire systems to meet the security requirements, a leading group on electronic records just recommended that facilities do not invest in any more technology as the best way to integrate e-records is to start from scratch.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Computer advise

I love how the myth of no viruses or spyware for Mac keeps going. They are out there and they are nasty if they get into your system. The major difference is that still not enough people use Macs outside of work that there is a 'demand' for them.

That being said I am looking at replacing my seem-to-be-failing desktop with a Mac. I am planning on getting Bootcamp so I can also run Xp and a probably Ubantu.

The bonus side of a PC is the extreme customability of it. You can get exactly what you want and pretty sure it will be cheaper than a Mac.

I also find it interesting that people equate PC with you have to run Windows. Linux kernals out there are great! Especially if you aren't playing games.

I administer Macs as part of my job, so I know I'm right here. Most virus databases include more than 236,000 Windows viruses. How many Mac viruses have been created, according to security experts? 24. None have caused any infections. And there are two or three trojans created by the virus software companies, but as you know, trojans are different in that they require the stupidity of the user to actually activate them. As I mentioned, we have 100 Macs running on the MCOM floor, and have never had any kind of security issue. Never. Put 100 PCs online without virus and spyware software and see how long they last.

Why are Macs more secure? One reason is the one you mentioned. Macs are a small percentage of the total computers on the planet. It's harder to spread something when they're not everywhere. But the second reason is more important. Macs are inherently more secure because they're based on the UNIX operating system. Unlike Windows, Mac users aren't running as "root" users of their computers. In other words, the heart of the system, the parts that viruses need to do their thing, is off-limits, requiring a password to even access it. Any virus or spyware would have to ask the user's permission to access any of the system files. Vista has added this kind of protection (in a cumbersome way that seems to be very annoying since it's so indiscriminate). XP has grafted on a security protocol that is less effective since it's based on earlier versions of Windows that lacked multi-user capability. So you have to add virus and spyware software to be more protected.

Unix (and Linux) are inherently more secure because of their design. Unlike Windows, Unix was originally designed as a multi-user operating system, while Windows has grafted that kind of stuff on. On the Mac, files susceptible to exploit are walled off and inaccessible. XP lacks that kind of discrimination between file types. Vista added a much more effective security model. On the Mac, programs and affiliated files all go in one place, off limits to outsiders. In Windows, programs and their files, along with registry keys, are spread all over the disk.

I could go on. But I've heard all of this before from people on campuses who have tried to take our Macs away. Confronted with facts, they have a hard time making their argument. We've been fighting these battles for years. So we've armed ourselves with facts.

Bottom line: I don't want to take anyone's Windows PC away, so why are they so interested in taking my Mac away? Might have something to do with IT staffs made up of Microsoft Certified techs who derive their living patching all the holes in Windows.

I should add that any operating system can be compromised, so users need to be careful. Turn on firewalls. If you're on Windows, keep your virus and spyware software up to date. Don't click on suspicious files. Browse wisely on the Web. It's just easier to be secure on a Mac. But that could change at any moment.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Computer advise

I'm no computer guy and I look at it this way. Those who have a background in programming as part of their training prefer the Mac by a great amount over the PC, its not even close. Guys like me who are barely more than adequate when it comes to operating a system are more comfortable with a PC, that would be the majority of Americans. Gates or the people he associates with recognized that and ran with it. Mac stuck to their guns and they have a great product if you take the time to learn how to use it. I'm too lazy so I'm a Dell/Windows XP guy.

We have a laptop requirement in our department. Many of our students are new to the Mac. It typically takes them about a week to figure out that the Mac's Finder is just the Windows desktop turned upside down (or rather, the Windows desktop is the Mac Finder turned upside down, since the Mac was here first.) We are phasing the laptop program in and have about 150 of our students carrying MacBooks and MacBook Pros. We haven't heard a single complaint. Most are thrilled with their computers.

[jackmd]

Re: Computer advise

We have a laptop requirement in our department. Many of our students are new to the Mac. It typically takes them about a week to figure out that the Mac's Finder is just the Windows desktop turned upside down (or rather, the Windows desktop is the Mac Finder turned upside down, since the Mac was here first.) We are phasing the laptop program in and have about 150 of our students carrying MacBooks and MacBook Pros. We haven't heard a single complaint. Most are overjoyed.

I should have prefaced things by saying that PC's get crammed down your throat as well and that makes it tough to be "that guy with a Mac". When I spoke to my colleagues at my previous job all the guys who were savy with computers advised that I get a Mac. I spoke to my wife about it and she refused to make the mental investment to learn the different system. The hospital here uses PC, our clinic uses PC, etc....

So, my opinion, probably a few more headaches up front when learning to use a Mac but much less likely to have problems in the long run. That said, I haven't had any real trouble with my PC's except my own stupidity getting my into trouble once in awhile.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Computer advise

I spoke to my wife about it and she refused to make the mental investment to learn the different system.

First off, BE A MAN AND TELL YOUR WIFE WHAT KIND OF COMPUTER YOU WILL HAVE!

But as to the point, I have heard that from the some of the IT people at the places I have worked. "The Mac might be a better system for us, but I don't want to learn it so I am not going to recommend it." To me that is short-sighted, but what you going to do.

I am with JJ, I don't think anyone should have to give up either system, if that is the best one for them. When my wife's school system switched from Macs to PCs, it was done primarily for two reasons; pressure to support a local manufacturer and IT dep't wanted uniformity. Both good reasons, however the elementary schools were given virtually no notice of the change or any funding to get software to go with the change. My wife shows up one day and the Macs are gone and Gateways are in their place. Result, no computer time for about a month because NO software to run on the new computers. That was a dumb way to make the switch. When they did get some software, it was not very good because they quickly bought programs that indicated they could be used at all levels. Computer programs for kindergartners aren't the same as 5th graders. But IT could solve their problems and proudly announced that the number of service calls in the first month of the transition were way down when they expected them to go up because of the transition. This lead them to believe that the move was quite successful.

[JimmyJack]

Re: Computer advise

Absolutely. In computers, choice is good. I've got Windows XP, Vista, and Ubuntu Linux (and Mac OS X 10.5, of course) running on my Mac. All have good and bad features. I'd like to think that having multiple options forces all of the companies (and in the case of Linux, the programmers) to do better. Heaven forbid we were all forced to have Windows machines. It'd be Windows 95 forever.

[State_fan]

Re: Computer advise

Absolutely. In computers, choice is good. I've got Windows XP, Vista, and Ubuntu Linux (and Mac OS X 10.5, of course) running on my Mac. All have good and bad features. I'd like to think that having multiple options forces all of the companies (and in the case of Linux, the programmers) to do better. Heaven forbid we were all forced to have Windows machines. It'd be Windows 95 forever.

Question for you... I'm not familiar with MACs at all, but have a pretty good amount of experience with the Windows line. When you run Windows XP on your MAC hardware, do you open yourself back up to XP viruses? Disclaimer: I'm expecting this to be a stupid question with an obvious answer. Just wanted to check for sure.