Hey Fargo!

[2002jack]

This is not meant to be "smart", but I don't know where else to ask this of our friends up north. The state of North Dakota has like billion dollar surplus, why not use that oil money to build a dike for Fargo and Grand Forks?

[MaddogJack]

Re: Hey Fargo!

I'm not trying to be smart either, but everything they flush in fargo ends up in Grand Forks.They have a long standing mess up there. I've always wondered about Fargo like I did with New Orleans - how long til they move out or truly fix the problem?

[Hammersmith]

Re: Hey Fargo!

This is not meant to be "smart", but I don't know where else to ask this of our friends up north. The state of North Dakota has like billion dollar surplus, why not use that oil money to build a dike for Fargo and Grand Forks?

Grand Forks doesn't need anything; they got a permanent dike/levee system after the flood of '97. A dike system for Fargo is not practical. The Army Corps of Engineers looked into it and all their data shows that a diversion is the only solution that can protect against a 500 year event and be even remotely feasible. The cost of a diversion is currently sitting at about $1.8 billion. While it might be theoretically possible for North Dakota to foot the bill on its own, it's not politically workable on both the state and federal levels.

There's a lot of anti-Fargo sentiment in ND, and it's hard enough getting the state to foot its planned $400-500 million share of the project. Fargo and Cass County seem to be pretty willing to cough up the local share of $100-200 million; that money is already rolling in through sales taxes. But there's a small but extremely vocal group that is opposed to the diversion because of some of its potential side effects. They've been fairly successful in Bismarck putting up roadblocks to the project.

On the federal level, we really need the power of Congress to make this thing happen. The Red River borders three different states(ND, SD & MN) and flows into Canada. If ND were to try to do this completely on our own, it's a safe bet that at least MN and Canada would go ballistic and stall or derail the project in a hundred different ways. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid we're going to have to lose a flood fight before a host of people get their heads out of the asses to actually let a permanent flood control project happen.

In the meantime, we're using a variety of funds to permanently protect the city to 42.5ft(about a 100 year event). I think we're something like 85% finished with the project. It's not a final solution because it's not capable of protecting us in the event of the 500 year flood, and it's iffy for a 100. But it's the best we can do on our own. The modern record is 40.81 ft in 2011. We're looking at 38-41 ft this year depending on temps and rainfall.

[filbert]

Re: Hey Fargo!

As the topic doesn't seem to me to be particularly smack-worthy, I'm moving it to The Lounge.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Hey Fargo!

floods, We're still drying out the basement from a combination of 4 inches of rain in a week and a sump pump that decided to quit in the middle of the night. For some reason in this subdivision when they built the first house the building inspector or whoever does the first inspection efffed up. the contractor dug the foundation and left it a foot and a half above the water table or so. the inspector came and and told him to dig it a foot and a half deeper and put it into the water table or deeper. one contractor didn't do it and built one house a foot above the water table and got into big time trouble. So a bunch of houses had water actually pouring in from cracks in the walls and seepage and of course when the sump pump goes like ours did. my pump runs every 33 seconds. wife wanted to finish the basement but that aint gonna happen till the sump pump quits forever and that aint gonna happen. House built a foot and a half higher. the sump pump rarely turns on.

[rabidrabbit]

Re: Hey Fargo!

Congress and Prez took a BIG (actually a Biggert-Waters) step to make the National Flood Insurance Program more self-supporting. Basically, subsidies, called "grandfathering" is headed to extinction over the next 5 years. All structures will be elevation rated, and actuarial sound premiums will be required. Unfortunately, or fortunately for taxpayers, flood insurance limits heavily what will be paid for in a basement.

Should your house, or business be flooded, make the $$ available to elevate and mitigate. The payback on the flood insurance premium savings alone will be 5-10 years. Even faster if in a Coastal high risk (VE) zone. Those property owners impacted by Sandy coastal storm surges have some REALLY shocking news coming if they just repair the damages, and don't take the steps to elevate above the risk.

Fargo, with their repetitive losses will be impacted by the Biggert-Waters Act of 2012 also. Even if they had flood insurance.

This is my other area of passion besides Jackrabbit sports, and FCS football, so my apologizes for pontificating. (Steps off Soap Box)

[Nidaros]

Re: Hey Fargo!

Grand Forks doesn't need anything; they got a permanent dike/levee system after the flood of '97. A dike system for Fargo is not practical. The Army Corps of Engineers looked into it and all their data shows that a diversion is the only solution that can protect against a 500 year event and be even remotely feasible. The cost of a diversion is currently sitting at about $1.8 billion. While it might be theoretically possible for North Dakota to foot the bill on its own, it's not politically workable on both the state and federal levels.

There's a lot of anti-Fargo sentiment in ND, and it's hard enough getting the state to foot its planned $400-500 million share of the project. Fargo and Cass County seem to be pretty willing to cough up the local share of $100-200 million; that money is already rolling in through sales taxes. But there's a small but extremely vocal group that is opposed to the diversion because of some of its potential side effects. They've been fairly successful in Bismarck putting up roadblocks to the project.

On the federal level, we really need the power of Congress to make this thing happen. The Red River borders three different states(ND, SD & MN) and flows into Canada. If ND were to try to do this completely on our own, it's a safe bet that at least MN and Canada would go ballistic and stall or derail the project in a hundred different ways. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid we're going to have to lose a flood fight before a host of people get their heads out of the asses to actually let a permanent flood control project happen.

In the meantime, we're using a variety of funds to permanently protect the city to 42.5ft(about a 100 year event). I think we're something like 85% finished with the project. It's not a final solution because it's not capable of protecting us in the event of the 500 year flood, and it's iffy for a 100. But it's the best we can do on our own. The modern record is 40.81 ft in 2011. We're looking at 38-41 ft this year depending on temps and rainfall.

Boy 2002Jack, you opened the biggest bag of worms around in 50 states and Canada. Hammersmith has it right as to why the diversion project is not happening. Politics at its best. Hammer did not mention, ND Majority Leader Al Carlsen, who is from Fargo who basically took all the state money out of this project and said until the Fed pitches in, nothing will happen in Bismarck. This is the same guy who introduced the "Save the Sioux Logo", a couple years back. Its amazing how people in south Fargo who risk the flood every year seem to think Al can do no wrong, and they continue to re-elect him to the ND House of Representatives. Some one should write a book about Al Carlsen. He is amazing and has somewhat liberal talk show host Joel Heitkamp eating out of his hands. Joel, brother to US Senator Heidi Heitkamp, does not always agree with Carlsen but gives him a ton of air time.

[goon]

Re: Hey Fargo!

floods, We're still drying out the basement from a combination of 4 inches of rain in a week and a sump pump that decided to quit in the middle of the night. For some reason in this subdivision when they built the first house the building inspector or whoever does the first inspection efffed up. the contractor dug the foundation and left it a foot and a half above the water table or so. the inspector came and and told him to dig it a foot and a half deeper and put it into the water table or deeper. one contractor didn't do it and built one house a foot above the water table and got into big time trouble. So a bunch of houses had water actually pouring in from cracks in the walls and seepage and of course when the sump pump goes like ours did. my pump runs every 33 seconds. wife wanted to finish the basement but that aint gonna happen till the sump pump quits forever and that aint gonna happen. House built a foot and a half higher. the sump pump rarely turns on.

We had problems in sf with getting flooding in the basement when others wouldn't. We are at the bottom of a hill a block from the big sioux river. We get a lot of water flowing our way. 3 things helped a little. Built a catch basin in the back yard with a dicharge at the street in the front. Went from a sump pump to a seweage ejector which pumps a 2 inch hose and can run non stop unlike sump pumps that can't run as long. And finally got a back up gas generator that connects right into the gas like on the house. A few years ago when the big sioux flooded we lost power like 3 times that year getting the basement soaked. Now the sewage ejector has non stop power if elecricity goes out. That back up generator was nice to have when our power went out last week with that ice storm that went through. Haven't had a water issue since. Our only problem now would be if water actually comes up threw the floor drain in the basement if the actual sewage system gets overloaded with rain water seeping in. Thankfully that's never happened. And getting a manuel shut off valve should be a huge cost and dig up the basement so we haven't gone that far yet.

[slosho]

Re: Hey Fargo!

We had problems in sf with getting flooding in the basement when others wouldn't. We are at the bottom of a hill a block from the big sioux river. We get a lot of water flowing our way. 3 things helped a little. Built a catch basin in the back yard with a dicharge at the street in the front. Went from a sump pump to a seweage ejector which pumps a 2 inch hose and can run non stop unlike sump pumps that can't run as long. And finally got a back up gas generator that connects right into the gas like on the house. A few years ago when the big sioux flooded we lost power like 3 times that year getting the basement soaked. Now the sewage ejector has non stop power if elecricity goes out. That back up generator was nice to have when our power went out last week with that ice storm that went through. Haven't had a water issue since. Our only problem now would be if water actually comes up threw the floor drain in the basement if the actual sewage system gets overloaded with rain water seeping in. Thankfully that's never happened. And getting a manuel shut off valve should be a huge cost and dig up the basement so we haven't gone that far yet.

Menard's sell's check valves that can bee placed in the drains, then you only have to be higher than your neighbors drain. I used to work in the plumbing dept. there, and one of the guys in our area did this somewhat preemptively. when his neighborhood (Kingswood)had issues he was dry and every one around him had sewage in the basement. he said it got close to coming out of the toilet down there. and that he ran to the store to by a plug for the toilet, just in case. may be a good investment for you.

[goon]

Re: Hey Fargo!

Menard's sell's check valves that can bee placed in the drains, then you only have to be higher than your neighbors drain. I used to work in the plumbing dept. there, and one of the guys in our area did this somewhat preemptively. when his neighborhood (Kingswood)had issues he was dry and every one around him had sewage in the basement. he said it got close to coming out of the toilet down there. and that he ran to the store to by a plug for the toilet, just in case. may be a good investment for you.

What's a check valve like? A plumber we talked to mentions a flow valve but couldn't garuntee it would workk 100% so the only way to be sure was a manual shut off valve on the line as it leaves the house. Just we wouldn't be able to use any water obviously when the vlave would be shut. I will have to look into that.

[MaddogJack]

Re: Hey Fargo!

In the meantime, we're using a variety of funds to permanently protect the city to 42.5ft(about a 100 year event). I think we're something like 85% finished with the project. It's not a final solution because it's not capable of protecting us in the event of the 500 year flood, and it's iffy for a 100. But it's the best we can do on our own. The modern record is 40.81 ft in 2011. We're looking at 38-41 ft this year depending on temps and rainfall.

How are things looking this week/end with the weather warming up? Are they beginning to sandbag? (Too lazy to research it - but thinking about you guys)

[MaddogJack]

Re: Hey Fargo!

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/397408/

There you go - that wasn't that difficult. Good luck Fargo-ites, - thinking about you. I would guess the water level at the lake is going to be high again this summer?

[HoboJack]

Re: Hey Fargo!

This is the NWS/NOAA Hydrogragh data page discussed in the Forum article:
http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydro...fgf&gage=fgon8

Long range forcast for 4/23 to 7/22: 98% chance of major flooding (above 38'), > 30% chance of record flood level (above 40.84')
http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/perio...fgf&gage=fgon8

I referenced this site quite a bit last spring to see the various levels for the rivers for the area: http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/index.php?wfo=fsd

[tjbison]

Re: Hey Fargo!

How are things looking this week/end with the weather warming up? Are they beginning to sandbag? (Too lazy to research it - but thinking about you guys)

laying bags, but the crest prediction has dropped, typical areas that would have standing water are dry, this IMO is going to go by without issues if the weather holds