Why I laugh at the Gophers

[Jacked_Up]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

Why do they have bowl games featuring mediocre teams? TV money has got to have a lot to do with it. Natural drama. Easy programing. And in the case of the Gophers, a level of entertainment comparable to reruns of Gilligan's Island. Almost, anyway.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

really. two six and six teams playing each other. from mediocre season 6-6 to losing season 6-7 or a winning season 7-6. for one team it works out, to the other it doesn't. frankly, leave them both mediocre. instead of thirty plus bowl games let's have thirty days of outdoor Hockey. yea that's the ticket.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

I haven't watched a non-title bowl game for years. I don't watch the third place games in March Madness either. Oh wait, they don't play them because no one cares!

[CCdeville]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

didnt only about 2500 of 10,000 tickets for gophers get used for this bowl game? that alone should give maturi the boot, plus he flat out cannot coach, or make an adjustment. comparing him to bohl isnt right, bohl has won big games, ndsu had 1 miserable year in which they never got blown out, coming off a year 2007 that they underachieved with 6 nfl prospects.
bohl can win, brewster cannot win.

[zooropa]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

the anti-Brewsterism on this board surprises me.

Here's the issue:

Maturi is talking about giving Brewster an extension.

It's not whether or not Brewster should be coaching next year.

It's whether or not Maturi should be pulling a Steve Pederson, and giving an extension to a wildly unpopular coach who hasn't done jack squat--aside from shameless self-promotion.

[Kemo]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

I agree with NovaJack in many things, but not when it comes to Brewster. I'm not a fan of firing a coach after 3 years, but then again, Brewster never should have been hired in the first place. Why would you hire an NFL TE coach as a head coach at a BSC conference school? It makes no sense and suggests that an AD shouldn't have his job in the first place. I say this as a person going to school to become a college athletic director, as hiring coaches might be the most important aspect of an AD's job (winning always breeds more income than any promotional ploy can ever do). If the Gophers' athletic department is smart they try to cut there losses and try and hire a coach who has won as a head coach, but I truly doubt this will happen.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

I agree with NovaJack in many things, but not when it comes to Brewster. I'm not a fan of firing a coach after 3 years, but then again, Brewster never should have been hired in the first place. Why would you hire an NFL TE coach as a head coach at a BSC conference school? It makes no sense and suggests that an AD shouldn't have his job in the first place. I say this as a person going to school to become a college athletic director, as hiring coaches might be the most important aspect of an AD's job (winning always breeds more income than any promotional ploy can ever do). If the Gophers' athletic department is smart they try to cut there losses and try and hire a coach who has won as a head coach, but I truly doubt this will happen.

Kemo; When you speak I listen. But I wonder, do the detractors not like the guy's personality, or his results? Because two bowl games in successive years after a 1-11 disaster (and losing to NDSU, for goodness sakes) is progress. And if self-promotion is anathema to college coaching, well..... good luck on that. I hear Mike Leach is looking for a job.

He may not be beating the Penn States or the Ohio States yet, but you just might consider them established programs with coaches who have been around pretty much since they started turning pig hide into footballs.
The bigger problem in college sports, IMHO, is alumni-inspired impatience, which allows very few to build a program. On the pro level, Bill Belicheck was run out of Cleveland before he had a chance to build a program and now he's everybody's genius. Had the naysayers had their way in Washington, Joe Gibbs wouldn't have gotten beyond his first five games (all ugly losses).
Had Brewmeister gone 4-8 and lost to the Jacks and Syracuse, you'd all have a stonger point. But he's won 13 games in two years in a pretty darned tough conference, and only now does he get to play primarily with players he recruited.
As for the Bohl, I might humbly say that his success was at a lower level than where he's coaching now. What's worse, progress on a stepped-up level, or regression on a stepped-up level?

[filbert]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

Seems like we've strayed from the simple pleasure which is laughing at the gophers.

Ha. Haha. Hahahahaha. Hah.

All of those resources, O high-and-mighty Big 10 school, and you can't even beat little ol' Iowa State ("the high school after high school" -- Joel Robinson, MST3K) in the Who Gives A Darn Bowl.

Hah.

[CatchEmAll]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

didnt only about 2500 of 10,000 tickets for gophers get used for this bowl game? that alone should give maturi the boot, plus he flat out cannot coach, or make an adjustment. comparing him to bohl isnt right, bohl has won big games, ndsu had 1 miserable year in which they never got blown out, coming off a year 2007 that they underachieved with 6 nfl prospects.
bohl can win, brewster cannot win.

The Pioneer Press reported the U of M sold ~1,900 of their ticket alottment, ISU ~8,900 of their alottment. Reported attendance was over 45,000. I just want to know where did those other 34,000 people come from. I know not every fan of a school buys from the ticket alottment, but seriously.

And I don't by for one minute bowl games of this caliber are about recruiting or TV revenues. What recruit in their right mind watched Minnesota lose that game and though, wow, I hope I can play in that second rate game next year and lose to another second rate team. And no one watched the game. These bowl games cost money to put on. Between what the organizers dole out to the schools, promised ticket sales, TV time for the game, etc., there needs to be a LOT of advertiser money coming in, which I cannot believe is happening. Do bowl games ever publicly publish their financials? Can't imagine they would because I'm guessing most are losing money and that's why from year to year so many games have different sponsors.

Back to the Gophers, Brewster has done nothing with what he has. The talent is there, I believe, the coaching is not. Doesn't help that they've had three OC's in three years (or two in three, can't remember which). Settle on a system, stick to it, and be gone in two years. All of college football goes through a five year window of opportunity. Get in, prove yourself, or be gone. Get your own kids in, win, or we'll find someone who can.

Should he get an extension, sure, for 2010 & 2011. Beyond that Minnesota is flushing money away. And yes, Mike Leach is available. He's expensive, but he's a proven winner.

[zooropa]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

And if self-promotion is anathema to college coaching

I didn't say that was a problem. I said that was all he's done.

Yes, he's won with somebody else's players, but that's the bare minimum to be expected from him. It's one of many reasons why I consider RichRod to be a far worse coach.

But you don't hear the Michigan AD squwaking about giving him an extension.

That's the most laughable part of this. The idea that Brewster has done anything to merit an extension. What he's done above what's required of him is try and promote himself to fill any vacancy that comes along, and if Maturi thinks that will stop with a contract extension, well, let's just say his bubble's a bit off plumb......

[zooropa]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

Should he get an extension, sure, for 2010 & 2011.

My recollection of the article is that he's in the middle of a 5 year contract right now, which means 2010 & 2011 are already guaranteed.

The leverage he's using with Maturi is that he's only guaranteed two years, and because of that, it will limit his ability to recruit. Apparently, a big part of Tim's recruiting pitch is, "you'll get to play for me, Tim Brewster!!!" not "you'll get to play for a Big Ten school."

To which I respond, "win and you'll get your extension, Tim."

BTW, Filbert: Did you get that 'high school after high school' line from me, or from the MST3k episode directly..... the 'waffles' episode.....

[yoteforever]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

The Pioneer Press reported the U of M sold ~1,900 of their ticket alottment, ISU ~8,900 of their alottment. Reported attendance was over 45,000. I just want to know where did those other 34,000 people come from. I know not every fan of a school buys from the ticket alottment, but seriously.

And I don't by for one minute bowl games of this caliber are about recruiting or TV revenues. What recruit in their right mind watched Minnesota lose that game and though, wow, I hope I can play in that second rate game next year and lose to another second rate team. And no one watched the game. These bowl games cost money to put on. Between what the organizers dole out to the schools, promised ticket sales, TV time for the game, etc., there needs to be a LOT of advertiser money coming in, which I cannot believe is happening. Do bowl games ever publicly publish their financials? Can't imagine they would because I'm guessing most are losing money and that's why from year to year so many games have different sponsors.

Back to the Gophers, Brewster has done nothing with what he has. The talent is there, I believe, the coaching is not. Doesn't help that they've had three OC's in three years (or two in three, can't remember which). Settle on a system, stick to it, and be gone in two years. All of college football goes through a five year window of opportunity. Get in, prove yourself, or be gone. Get your own kids in, win, or we'll find someone who can.

Should he get an extension, sure, for 2010 & 2011. Beyond that Minnesota is flushing money away. And yes, Mike Leach is available. He's expensive, but he's a proven winner.

Every bowl game but one (the national Championship) serves three purposes. First, it is for the money. The payouts that are made to each school get handled in the following manner. The team going to the bowl deducts all of its expenses from the gross amount it recieves (that amount is audited) and the balance is then sent to the schools conference headquarters. In the Insight.com Bowl as an example, I believe the payoff to each school was in the $1.25M category. From that amount, the costs associated to travel down and stay for whatever duration it is is deducted from that amount. That includes ALL team members, all coaches and their wives, the schools BAND, the traveling press associated with the individual school and all other dignataries (school President, Provost, etc). Let's say it costs $500,000 to do the above, then the remaining amount ($750,000) goes to the Big 10 / Big 12. That happens for each bowl, so the more teams that qualify in a league, the more money the conference collects. Then when it is all done, the conference retains whatever amount is needed to perform their duties, and the balance is distributed to all schoolds on an equal basis.

The second reason for the lower bowls is as a reward to its players, coaches, and fans. Most (not all) are in warm weather climates, and the players are rewarded for having a somewhat successful season (success is defined differently than others). But if you ask the coaches, what really is good is the extra practice time they get in, much like spring ball. Teams that go to a bowl have more practice time with their players than teams that don't, and coaches swear that is hugely important.

The third reason for the bowl game is national exposure. Granted, some bowls have more than others, but nonetheless, playing on national TV has its benefits. Whether anyone watches games like Iowa State/Minnesota is debateable, but to the fans of some of these schools, go bowling is a whole lot of fun. The Iowa State fan base is a large reason that the Cyclones got to the Insight.com Bowl in Tempe (warm weather) as opposed to the Independence Bowl (cool weather) because they travel well and support their team. That equates to spending money. The tourism trade the week of a bowl game is big.

So all in all, this system will always be in place for the above mentioned reasons unless (and I doubt it will ever happen) they put in a playoff system tied to the bowl games. The conferences have become to dependent on the bowl revenue (even for bad teams that don't go). I believe last year that each Big 12 school was sent between $4-5 M of the divided revenue. That is a huge chunk of change.

[1stRowFANatic]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

YF,
That is a good analysis, however there are some things that I think will lead to changes. Minnesota announced that last years bowl game guarantee did not cover there expenses. No money to conference to be split, the AD had to cover the over run. This is happening with more and more of the lower tier bowl games. In addition, several of the lower tier bowls have had to lower their guarantees, which will accelerate this problem. Cumulative ratings for all the bowls (except the BCS title game) are going down so advertising revenue and exposure is reduced. Less money is also available from the corporate sponsors of these games because the money spent to have your name in front of smaller audiences doesn't continue to make sense.

As this begins to happen with more of the lower level bowl games, how long until the Presidents and AD's decide that maybe instead of having agreement for our top 7 teams, we go to 6 or 5 or 4? It would have no impact on league wide revenue and would save the lower finishers money.

IMO, the BCS system is going to be the end of the bowl system given enough time. I can't begin to count the number of people that used to set aside New Year's eve (early evening) & day for bowls, plus a few others between Christmas and NY's eve that now only focus on the BCS title game. I checked the ESPN ticker a couple of times, but have not watched any of the games. The BCS is a 2-team tournament right now with a multitude of consolation games. To me, that is dumb and won't last the test of time. They just did another 4 year contract for the BCS, I give them maybe one more contract, but I think it will be a transitional one.

[NoVaJack]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

I didn't say that was a problem. I said that was all he's done.

Yes, he's won with somebody else's players, but that's the bare minimum to be expected from him. It's one of many reasons why I consider RichRod to be a far worse coach.

But you don't hear the Michigan AD squwaking about giving him an extension.

That's the most laughable part of this. The idea that Brewster has done anything to merit an extension. What he's done above what's required of him is try and promote himself to fill any vacancy that comes along, and if Maturi thinks that will stop with a contract extension, well, let's just say his bubble's a bit off plumb......

Apples and Oranges. Rodriguez signed a 6-year deal with a bazillion dollar buyout. He won't need an extension until 2014 or 2015. And he had a worse year. Brewster is under contract only through the RS Freshman year of current recruits. Hard to promise kids stuff under those circumstances, but even at that, he's gotten good reviews for his recruiting classes.

This passage from ESPN is precisely my point. It's not about Brewster per se, it's about the program! Believe me, I got no dog in this hunt except a bias against constant program switching from alumni pressure. (I do find it ironic that some folks who have argued to hang with Coach Nagy for five tough transition years would cut Brewster off even before he got to play with his recruits). If you hangmen can make the case that he has been given a fair chance to back up his promises, then I'd be with you. And then you could call for the next coach's head after a couple of middlin' season.
I just happen to disagree.
Anyway, here's the ESPN passage:

"We need some stability," Maturi said. "We've proven that just changing coaches at Minnesota isn't the answer. We need stability. I'm excited about the recruits that are here and those who are coming and coach Brewster deserves the right to coach those recruits."

Brewster also will be in a better position to lure more top-level recruits to Minnesota if he receives an extension. Despite his struggles in Big Ten play (6-18), in November games and against Minnesota's top rivals, Brewster continues to recruit well to Minnesota. He would be in a tough spot for recruiting with just two years left on his contract and no extension on the horizon.

There will undoubtedly be a lot of pressure on Brewster next fall, but he deserves the chance to coach his own recruits in key roles. For the first time in Brewster's tenure, Minnesota could retain both of its coordinators, creating some much needed continuity.

[bigticket1]

Re: Why I laugh at the Gophers

The Pioneer Press reported the U of M sold ~1,900 of their ticket alottment, ISU ~8,900 of their alottment. Reported attendance was over 45,000. I just want to know where did those other 34,000 people come from. I know not every fan of a school buys from the ticket alottment, but seriously.

And I don't by for one minute bowl games of this caliber are about recruiting or TV revenues. What recruit in their right mind watched Minnesota lose that game and though, wow, I hope I can play in that second rate game next year and lose to another second rate team. And no one watched the game. These bowl games cost money to put on. Between what the organizers dole out to the schools, promised ticket sales, TV time for the game, etc., there needs to be a LOT of advertiser money coming in, which I cannot believe is happening. Do bowl games ever publicly publish their financials? Can't imagine they would because I'm guessing most are losing money and that's why from year to year so many games have different sponsors.

Back to the Gophers, Brewster has done nothing with what he has. The talent is there, I believe, the coaching is not. Doesn't help that they've had three OC's in three years (or two in three, can't remember which). Settle on a system, stick to it, and be gone in two years. All of college football goes through a five year window of opportunity. Get in, prove yourself, or be gone. Get your own kids in, win, or we'll find someone who can.

Should he get an extension, sure, for 2010 & 2011. Beyond that Minnesota is flushing money away. And yes, Mike Leach is available. He's expensive, but he's a proven winner.

From what I understand,there is little or no extra buy-out money for the extension. As for Mike Leach,would you want him as a replacement for the high-character coach SDSU currently has ? Clem Haskins and John Calipari are also proven winners that vacated trips to the Final Four. Would you want them to coach at SDSU ?