When a fan's a fan

[JamesJacks]

Re: When a fan's a fan

It's tough when your favorite teams are struggling. I do check the NDSU fan message board from time to time and agree that there is a lot of unhappy Bison fans right now. I am not sad they are struggling. Not at all. Our own message board (as JackJD refers to in their post) has shown some impatient behavior as well. Think back to the men's basketball team the past few years. It was not all that positive at times here. It's ok for fans to get negative as long as things the language is kept in check, which this site does a GREAT job of.

[filbert]

Re: When a fan's a fan

What's that saying? "Adversity doesn't build character. It reveals it."

I think the difficulties of the D-I transition has made quite a few Jacks men's basketball fans sit back and evaluate what's really important to them. Turns out that it's SDSU that's important to most of them, not just the Jackrabbit basketball team.

The Bison faithful are working through that difficult process right now. I agree with comments above that the vast majority of them are good people, and I think they will come to a similar conclusion.

But the process hurts, no doubt about it.

[JamesJacks]

Re: When a fan's a fan

But the process hurts, no doubt about it.

You can say that again.

[JimmyJack]

Re: When a fan's a fan

What's that saying? "Adversity doesn't build character. It reveals it."

I think the difficulties of the D-I transition has made quite a few Jacks men's basketball fans sit back and evaluate what's really important to them. Turns out that it's SDSU that's important to most of them, not just the Jackrabbit basketball team.

The Bison faithful are working through that difficult process right now. I agree with comments above that the vast majority of them are good people, and I think they will come to a similar conclusion.

But the process hurts, no doubt about it.

I think that's dead on. It seems like some NDSU fans derive a good bit of their identity from their football team. Perspective is the key. These are student athletes. They're doing their best. Enjoy it when things are good. But understand that this isn't real life. It's a game.

[Nidaros]

Re: When a fan's a fan

From the old days of the NCC, I don't know who I disliked more, the arrogrant Bison fans or the Sioux Fans, both very annoying at times, but when you visit the campuses without attending an athletic event, you get another take like I did yesterday. UND has a very nice campus and unbelieveable number of buildings and departments. Best of all is a small chapel in the middle of the UND campus suitible for weddings and other gatherings. Thats something SDSU does not have, but should consider doing so for one reason. Something like a wedding chapel will bring people to their campus that might not otherwise take the time to see what their institution is all about. I count myself in that group.

The marriage of the D1 progression with USD was really a forced one as it was not based on similar campuses and buildings, that is certain. It was about hockey, bulking and fighting the D1 move and other things.

I think the entire state of North Dakota has certainly out invested SD for the past century when it comes to higher education, the campuses seem to prove my point. So what am I trying to say?

Lets not kick a sleeping dog, like the Bisonville board. These programs might be down now and their fans might be on suicide watch, but another day dawns and we best take care of our own business and not poke the Bison fans in the eye. Thats my point.

[SturgisJeff]

Re: When a fan's a fan

After consecutive years of going to bowl games, something like 30 in a row, just think how Michigan fans have felt. I believe last year was the first time they didn't go to one. It was Rich Rodriquez first season. There were a few calls for his head, transfers out, etc. but now he is 4-0 and the sky is Maize and Blue in the state of Michigan again. They had their down years but the loyal fans stuck with them and are happy once more.
Why let it eat a hole in your belly when your losing, its just a game. There are more important things to worry about like how you gonna pay the heating bill this winter, especially in Fargo.

[NoVaJack]

Re: When a fan's a fan

Filbert, James Jacks, and others have made valid points on this string... I started this thread after reading a post on Bisonville saying, in essence, they would not stoop to SDSU level and be satisfied with seven-win seasons. That struck me as a pretty telling post.
Yes, there are good Bison fans, as Filbert poitns out, and yes, it is good that the few arrogant fans who believe Bison pies don't stink are having to confront the idea that the football world doesn't turn on their eternal superiority, as james jacks has written. What I think this is all about is the difference between a fan and a fanatic.
A fan sees things as they really are, balancing between hope and honest expectation, knowing that you can enjoy the successes only by enduring the challenges, and that in life you win some and you lose some.
The fanatic believes that anything short of winning is absolute failure, and that your opponent is never better, that you've only allowed them unwarranted success because of your own failure. The vitriol heaved over on Bisonville yesterday came from fanatics, not fans. I really liked Filbert's point on how adversity has allowed all of us fans to understand it's SDSU we like, not the various athletic teams' win and loss records, which, after all, change from year to year anyway.

[jackrabit1]

Re: When a fan's a fan

I think that's a little insulting to say that we're satisfied with 7-win seasons. I think we've all taken SDSU losses pretty hard. I don't like losing, period.

I'm glad that we are competitive in the MVFC and that we've accomplished so much in Division I in so little time, but at the same time, I think we're all of the agreement that we want more. I sure wasn't satisfied last year with a 7-win season, especially since we were so close in several games, especially the McNeese State game. I want us to win the conference, I WANT us to make the playoffs. Hell, I WANT us to win the National Championship!

I can remember when we lost in the "Game that shall not be mentioned". I know some on here were wondering if a change at the top was needed. But I also remember that Coach Stig and the staff righted the ship quickly and we ended up not only with a "7-win season" but we also finished ranked in the top-25 AND were in the running for a conference championship.

NDSU has had a lot of success in the past. And right now, they're in a bit of a funk. It happens to the best programs... Michigan, Notre Dame, Nebraska, Tennessee. But they also get back to form in time and I'm positive that's what will happen in Fargo.

But just because your team is struggling doesn't mean you should be knocking our fans. We're just as passionate, just as dedicated, just as committed to winning as any program around here, including North Dakota State. To say we in Brookings are happy with mediocrity is inaccurate at best, insulting at the worst.

[Chains]

Re: When a fan's a fan

Never, ever be satisfied with a seven win season. That's the mentality of a team in transition. Transition years are tough and fans are willing to accept a loss or a poor season while in transition. In fact fans will accept a lot of things during transition from Dll to Dl. However, the tough times are still coming. If you think transition was difficult (it was) now the real battle starts. Boosters and fans now expect results. No more excuses. I over heard a conversation some time back that went something like this.

If you think the five years of transition are tough - just wait for the next five years when everyone expects you to win.

During transition that Jacks experienced success that normally does not occur during a transition period.

GBGBGJ

[UNDfan]

Re: When a fan's a fan

From the old days of the NCC, I don't know who I disliked more, the arrogrant Bison fans or the Sioux Fans, both very annoying at times, but when you visit the campuses without attending an athletic event, you get another take like I did yesterday. UND has a very nice campus and unbelieveable number of buildings and departments. Best of all is a small chapel in the middle of the UND campus suitible for weddings and other gatherings. Thats something SDSU does not have, but should consider doing so for one reason. Something like a wedding chapel will bring people to their campus that might not otherwise take the time to see what their institution is all about. I count myself in that group.

The marriage of the D1 progression with USD was really a forced one as it was not based on similar campuses and buildings, that is certain. It was about hockey, bulking and fighting the D1 move and other things.

I think the entire state of North Dakota has certainly out invested SD for the past century when it comes to higher education, the campuses seem to prove my point. So what am I trying to say?

Lets not kick a sleeping dog, like the Bisonville board. These programs might be down now and their fans might be on suicide watch, but another day dawns and we best take care of our own business and not poke the Bison fans in the eye. Thats my point.

Let me first congratulate Jack fans on what seems like a masterful transition to FCS football. Seems like most people in ND are shocked at what you have accomplished. Also, your women’s BB program is absolutely incredible. What a high bar that program has placed.

Just curious how SDSU fans perceive UND fans? NDSU fans have portrayed your two fan bases as sort of married at the hip; do you perceive that? Now that many of your programs have exceeded NDSU’s, it seems as if the Bison fan base is more than a little envious and may file for separation papers. Our hockey fans are always considered the most aggressive of our fan bases, while our basketball and football fans, although passionate, are not “in your face” type. Just curious about SDSU fan’s opinions? From stories of traveling Sioux fans, other than NDSU, their worst fan experiences have been at USD basketball games. It seems SDSU fans view UND as USD’s brother. UND and USD were never really partners in this DI move (USD had to move up when UND chose to).

Thanks for the comments on the UND campus. With the English Coulee setting, it truly is beautiful and so unexpected for eastern ND. The chapel you mentioned was bequeathed in a will from a California alum who hadn’t visited the campus in almost 60 years. She left like $10 million, which also went to scholarships and part of the student wellness center. The ND legislature hasn’t budgeted capital money for UND or other ND campuses for years. It’s because of generosity of alums plus bonding capacity that the UND campus continues to expand. Much of the recent changes have to due to the increased research and associated spinoffs. Have heard SDSU and Brookings are also moving along that path.

As far as the delay in UND’s move up, a lot of that had to do with the business community in Grand Forks. After the flood of 1997, most businesses had to take out huge amounts of loans that are only being paid off now. That couples with a quarter billion dollar dike assessment starting in 2003 or so, and the GF business community was in no mood for digging deeper into pockets to support a DI move. Because of their own interests, NDSU fans refuse to even ponder the $1 billion consequences of what the flood meant to UND and Grand Forks, and why DI would have been financially irresponsible at the time.

[JackJD]

Re: When a fan's a fan

First, a comment with my Moderator's hat on my head: If the UNDfan post causes the UND/NDSU flame war to erupt on this message board like it so often does on many other message boards, then this thread will be locked.

Okay, now I'll take off the Moderator's hat for a few comments.

Just curious how SDSU fans perceive UND fans? NDSU fans have portrayed your two fan bases as sort of married at the hip; do you perceive that? Now that many of your programs have exceeded NDSU’s, it seems as if the Bison fan base is more than a little envious and may file for separation papers. Our hockey fans are always considered the most aggressive of our fan bases, while our basketball and football fans, although passionate, are not “in your face” type. Just curious about SDSU fan’s opinions?

I'm sure UNDfan understands no one can speak authoritatively for SDSU fans. From my perspective which is influenced by what I pick up here and there, I'd say we're essentially 'neutral' on UND fans. We have no connection with hockey and accept that's the dominant sport at UND.

It's not in the nature of many SDSU fans to think that "many of our programs have exceeded NDSU's...." The records speak for themselves and people can draw their own conclusions. As a group, we tend to be a little modest and practice cautious optimism, taking it a game-at-a-time etc. I don't perceive NDSU is envious. NDSU fans have been uniformly complimentary of the SDSU women's BB and they know that its just a matter of time and the men's BB team will be back. The two schools have been excellent traveling partners on the transition to DI.

UNDfan commented that UND basketball and football fans are not as "in your face"...that's probably a fair comment on SDSU fans generally: I don't think we're as in-your-face as fans from other schools although I can see us becoming a little more "in your face" in football.

From stories of traveling Sioux fans, other than NDSU, their worst fan experiences have been at USD basketball games.

Many Jacks fans will say the same.

It seems SDSU fans view UND as USD’s brother. UND and USD were never really partners in this DI move (USD had to move up when UND chose to).

Honestly, I don't think many SDSU fans have spent much time thinking about any connection between UND and USD. Since SDSU and NDSU presented themselves as a package deal and it worked well, it seems to have a certain logic that UND and USD should have considered being similar joint venturers. There are differences, however, not the least of which is the complication of the UND nickname which has already caused a separation: USD is confirmed to join the Summit League but UND's conference affiliation is undetermined.

The ND legislature hasn’t budgeted capital money for UND or other ND campuses for years. It’s because of generosity of alums plus bonding capacity that the UND campus continues to expand. Much of the recent changes have to due to the increased research and associated spinoffs. Have heard SDSU and Brookings are also moving along that path.

Seems to be the case at most public institutions including SDSU.

Because of their own interests, NDSU fans refuse to even ponder the $1 billion consequences of what the flood meant to UND and Grand Forks, and why DI would have been financially irresponsible at the time.

There may be some reasons that appear valid to UND and/or NDSU fans for the cat-fight but I think most SDSU fans -- or at least this SDSU fan and those I hang with -- haven't taken the time, and don't care to take the time, to try to figure that out. With that said, I'll admit to a bias in favor of the NDSU side of the fight. I remember official UND comments (e.g. Roger Thomas) hyper-critical of NDSU's announcement to move to DI, a move SDSU was making at the same time. To compare: USD did not officially attack SDSU when SDSU announced it was moving up (I know, I know, some SDSU fans think there was an official, negative response but, in my opinion, there is no evidence of that).

[Nidaros]

Re: When a fan's a fan

JackJD:
I think UNDfan has been relatively civil and also informative as it crossed my mind where UND got the money to build this beautiful chapel, that has nearly every religious symbol on a boarder etched in stone. The chapel is very non sectarian for a state assisted institution and a great facility for weddings and other ceremonies. It has to be a source of revenue for UND Foundation. Though UND has a beautiful campus, many of the buildings are beginning to show their age. Their fund raising is not done by any means which might have been a big reason for delaying the move to D1.

I would agree I see more commonality with NDSU than UND, but have always thought the UND campus was more impressive than that at USD. We can only thank our tight fisted legislature for that gap. Historically its interesting to note how curriculms in both states were split as they are in Agriculture and Engineering driving one institutions SDSU and NDSU while the professional schools drive USD and UND.

My point is that the fans from both NDSU and UND take winning seriously in football particularly and maybe we should too. I repeat again don't kick a sleeping dog. (NDSU 1-3).

[JackJD]

Re: When a fan's a fan

I agree UNDFan post was very civil. There seems to be a propensity by some NDSU and UND fans to start lobbing bombs at one another on other message boards and I don't want to see that happen here. Certainly UNDfan did nothing inappropriate and its good to see he participating on this board.

[UNDfan]

Re: When a fan's a fan

JackJD: I would agree I see more commonality with NDSU than UND, but have always thought the UND campus was more impressive than that at USD. We can only thank our tight fisted legislature for that gap. Historically its interesting to note how curriculms in both states were split as they are in Agriculture and Engineering driving one institutions SDSU and NDSU while the professional schools drive USD and UND.

My point is that the fans from both NDSU and UND take winning seriously in football particularly and maybe we should too. I repeat again don't kick a sleeping dog. (NDSU 1-3).

Agree that ND has historically emphasized higher education much more than SD. Only is the last 10 years or so have NDSU and UND research capabilities been built up sufficiently to function as a growth engine.

As far as a UND - USD comparison, UND is more extensive in scope. USD + SD School of Mines + 1/2 of Embry-Riddle = UND. The ND constitution requires that there be a school of mines located in Grand Forks, which just happens to be co-located with UND.

[Nidaros]

Re: When a fan's a fan

Agree that ND has historically emphasized higher education much more than SD. Only is the last 10 years or so have NDSU and UND research capabilities been built up sufficiently to function as a growth engine.

As far as a UND - USD comparison, UND is more extensive in scope. USD + SD School of Mines + 1/2 of Embry-Riddle = UND. The ND constitution requires that there be a school of mines located in Grand Forks, which just happens to be co-located with UND.

Thanks I had never thought about the School of Mines being in GF. That seems to be a major diffeence in set of between SD and ND. SDSU has had its battles over the years defending their turf relating to the location of the College of Engineering since SD Tech is in Rapid City. The most famous quotation out the controversial move to relocate School of Engineering in Rapid City was made by our then President H.M Briggs, a very agrarian Iowa farm boy, who said "that the move of the Engineering school from Brookings to Rapid City made about as much sense as a farmer casterating his prize championship bull."