USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

[jackmd]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Several of my good friends played on SDSU teams in the late 80's and early 90's. They all feel our skill positions might have less talent than the same positions when they were at SDSU as a DII program. I think Minet may have changed their view a little bit.

Central Arkansas certainly wasn't overwhelmed by all of USD's "skill" and I doubt McNeese will be either, although I could be underestimating USD. I have no intention of seeing for myself.

[Nidaros]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Several of my good friends played on SDSU teams in the late 80's and early 90's. They all feel our skill positions might have less talent than the same positions when they were at SDSU as a DII program. I think Minet may have changed their view a little bit.

Central Arkansas certainly wasn't overwhelmed by all of USD's "skill" and I doubt McNeese will be either, although I could be underestimating USD. I have no intention of seeing for myself.

Maybe we should change the format of our spring game, and make it Alums against the current squad. Would your friends be willing to participate? I think its less than helpful for them to comment in this manner. The reason I think its not helpful as I think they are dead wrong, plus are training program is different. To think some of them got a free education out of it too, and somehow years later its alright to bite the hand that feed them. That does not show me much.

[jackmd]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Maybe we should change the format of our spring game, and make it Alums against the current squad. Would your friends be willing to participate? I think its less than helpful for them to comment in this manner. The reason I think its not helpful as I think they are dead wrong, plus are training program is different. To think some of them got a free education out of it too, and somehow years later its alright to bite the hand that feed them. That does not show me much.

I think you might have taken my comment out of context. They admitted (as best an ex-jock can) that the level of competition on the field is greater and that can affect appearances. I was trying to be subtle in suggesting the same might be the case at USD when comparing players to SDSU (hence the CAU game reference).

As for the free education, these guys are bright in addition to being athletic. None of them needed football to succeed in life and all were committed to their education and to athletics at SDSU. Each of them still supports SDSU so suggesting they are biting the hand that fed them is ludicrous. They are expressing an opinion just as Terry V was. You are entitled to think they are dead wrong just as much as they can think they are right.

I have no doubt most here would recognize the name of the guys who made the comments. They are big SDSU supporters who didn't feel they were causing any harm when they said it. I think Terry feels the same way, just making observations and expressing opinions.

Would anyone argue that the UNI players at the so-called skill positions were not better than SDSU's players at the same positions?

[2002jack]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I look at these young men, Berry, Minnett, Harris, Wagner, Doblar, Steffen, Koenig, etc., etc., I admire their talent and hard work. However, I am pretty sure Stig could have recruited these guys at the DII level as well. I'm not saying they don't have DI-FCS talent, because they obviously do.

I don't think the division between DI-FCS and DII talent is a as large as I once thought.

With that all being said, this is the best SDSU team that I've seen play.

[State_fan]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I look at these young men, Berry, Minnett, Harris, Wagner, Doblar, Steffen, Koenig, etc., etc., I admire their talent and hard work. However, I am pretty sure Stig could have recruited these guys at the DII level as well. I'm not saying they don't have DI-FCS talent, because they obviously do.

I don't think the division between DI-FCS and DII talent is a as large as I once thought.

With that all being said, this is the best SDSU team that I've seen play.

I have to agree about the division between DI-FCS and DII in regards to the talent difference at the skill positions. No doubt that if Josh Ranek were playing now at the DI-FCS level versus the DII level back then, he'd still be plowing over people like a bowling ball. The main difference between these two levels is the scholarship number increases, and now lots of these extra DI-FCS scholarships are given out to the typical 'development' positions at DII (meaning they would take a couple years to get the guys big and stronger, let them grow up a bit, then play them a lot their jr & sr years, as opposed to now where a few more RS freshmen (and probably as time progresses more and more true freshmen) are making impacts). Of course, this added quality depth makes us an overall better team than we were back then.

[Nidaros]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I going to step out of the comparison of SDSU football over the decades because we are playing right into Coyote Fans hands. I do admire the past players and maybe I misunderstood Jackmd. I am not a judge of football skills, but I would agree the best team is probably the one that 1-3, and has had only one complete game this year and will continue to get better. I do think that D1FCS and D2 do have differences in skill. Sure there are upsets, but when Appliacian St can beat mighty Michigan one week and lose to Wofford a couple of weeks later what does that tell you. Upsets and comparative scores are interesting, but you have play at your level week in and week out.

I think USD will have their hands full at McNeese and if you read the Texas State Message board. Who do they fear most that remains on their schedule? It was Mc Neese that I read about. Should not the Coyotes be worried too?

[joeboo22]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I think SDSU and USD have different philosophies.... SDSU is more at raw talent bring them in red-shirt them and form them into what SDSU wants in them.
USD likes to get that rounded athlete and plug them in.

[RodentiaX1]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Playing at home makes a difference, but not a huge difference. If a game wasn't close on the road, it's hard to believe that playing at home would have been enough to make up the difference.

[JimmyJack]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Playing at home makes a difference, but not a huge difference. If a game wasn't close on the road, it's hard to believe that playing at home would have been enough to make up the difference.

But the fact a road game makes any difference at all is why road games don't count. Obviously, USD is better than everybody else if they're playing in the dome. Heck, they're USC when they play in their dome. But on the road, they become Upper Iowa for some reason. Luckily, those games don't count.

[jackmd]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I'm not trying to defend what the former SDSU players said as much as saying it again here. The guys who said it would be happy to discuss it with you. They mean no disrespect to the current players, at least I didn't take it that way. I think its fair to consider the possibility that we have had some talented players at different positions in different years. I think our NFL draft history shows that.

In the end, I'll stick with the guys we have now.

[Jacks#1Fan]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I'm not trying to defend what the former SDSU players said as much as saying it again here. The guys who said it would be happy to discuss it with you. They mean no disrespect to the current players, at least I didn't take it that way. I think its fair to consider the possibility that we have had some talented players at different positions in different years. I think our NFL draft history shows that.

In the end, I'll stick with the guys we have now.

Might as well throw in my two cents on the subject. I get a kick out of a lot of the posts, so I'll try to provide a few you might get a kick out of:

1) Meierkort may be God almight for all I know, but I would point out that perennial NCC winners North Dakota State and Northern Colorado don't play at that level any more, and neither does SDSU. So USD has only UND and UNO programs to compete with in the last year of the NCC, which should make their season a lot easier.

2) I don't understand the people who would say that we aren't better now than we were five to ten years ago. Look at the schedule we play. So the three losses were to #4, #7 and #19 (with two of those on the road) in the FCS but we were surely competitive and I don't think we were even that competitive in D-II football. (I carry the same beef with some basketball fans who were against D-I and late in the last season were still insisting that our National Championship team was a better team. Sure they were GREAT at our level at that time. But this year's team beat Minnesota, Kansas, Indiana, Middle Tennessee, just to name a few, and gets invited to the WNIT, and has our first WNBA draftee. Same argument: different level of competition. Comparing a Coyote team that scored four touchdowns against a sub-par D-II team in the first half, and didn't score at all in the second half, against our schedule is just plain foolish.

Finally, I believe Terry V has done a great service for SDSU in his energetic coverage of our program. I think he could have left the comment at home, if that is the way he felt, as I don't think the logic he used will stand scrutiny. I would have at least cautioned him to wait until a little later in the season to see how if his judgment is valid. I don't fault him one bit on picking Texas State to win, as I think a lot of our fans might have thought they would win. But I noticed the "average" football team we have didn't agree!!

Go JACKS!!!

[Nidaros]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

I owe Jackmd an apology as I re-read his prior posts, and I now realize I read into these posts something he did not imply nor he said. I sure we have a ton of former players that are proud of their career at SDSU and are gratitful for the assistance they received. I must confess I was having kind of a bad day yesterday and felt the need to strike out, and for that too I apologize. It might have been a better day if I had stayed off this message board. LOL.

I wish,just to settle this arguement, that we could play USD. It sure would settle a bunch of doubts and claims about skilled positions.

[MilwaukeeJacksAlum]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Finally, I believe Terry V has done a great service for SDSU in his energetic coverage of our program. I think he could have left the comment at home, if that is the way he felt, as I don't think the logic he used will stand scrutiny. I would have at least cautioned him to wait until a little later in the season to see how if his judgment is valid. I don't fault him one bit on picking Texas State to win, as I think a lot of our fans might have thought they would win. But I noticed the "average" football team we have didn't agree!!

Go JACKS!!!

I just stumbled onto this thread as I usually stick to the Football and Basketball threads due to a lack of time to peruse the rest. I made a comment on the Texas St. football thread about Terry's comments and pick against us and feel similarly to Jacks#1Fan. I think he does an excellent job with most of his articles. I think he has absolutely transformed the sports section, at least the online offerings, at the Argus. He is a sportswriter who was taught in the blog and ESPN.com generation and has the internet savy as a result. I likened his comments and request for maturity from his readers to a wife asking "do these jeans make me look fat?" to her husband. You know the results if you tell your wife anything other than "you look great". Terry is married with kids, so he knows how that works. It's no different than talking to people about their favorite sports team. Especially when you're comparing them to what many would consider their bitter rival. He may believe he's 100% accurate in his assessment and prediction, but he needs to remember his audience.

On the old "good old days" portion of this thread. I'd say there are players who could fall into both sides of the argument. Hard to argue that Steve Heiden wouldn't dominate at any level. Same for Ranek or even some of the non-NFL players who have passed through. SDSU has had some talented football players run through here. The difference, as I see it, is the overall level of talent.

It's not that Jaron Harris or whomever is so much more talented than his predecessors. It's that the 4th string WR is more talented than his predecessors. Stig employs a system (or at least used to) on D where he rotates his starters and 2nd string to keep them fresh and prevent the problem of having a starter go down and the backup coming in with no game experience. In years past, the rotation with the 2nd string linebackers, or Dline, or whatever, was generally a pretty sharp contrast in talent. That contrast or talent line has been blurred to the point where there is hardly a drop-off in talent at all with the rotation. I spent a great deal of this past game watching the D-line because they were absolutely dominating the game. They rotated players in and out on almost every play. If there was a change in talent level I didn't see it. That's the difference.

In years past, what prevented many SDSU teams from getting over the hump was injuries to key players. In the DII days, when a starter was lost, the general talent level for whatever unit he was on took a big hit. Now, it's not so catastrophic to lose someone like Hohn because Minette is waiting in the wings. That's a huge advantage. That's the primary difference in the talent level from teams of old and now, as I see it. Depth.

[Nidaros]

Re: USD Skilled Players Better Than SDSU's

Milwaukee Jack:

Good post, and depth no doubt is a key difference. I tend to think we have found a bit better talent by going to Arizona and California. We seem to have gotten into areas that before would not give the recruting coaches a chance. i.e Danny Batten and Rogers. Also what is helping is the personality of Coach Stig.

So no, the current squad talentwise is not leaps and bounds ahead of where we were in 1997, but slowly we are getting to a higher level. Takes time.

It will be interesting if USD Meirkort keeps taking chances on people who others have passed over. The McNeese board was talking about the USD roster. They seemed think that USD had smaller players who in the Southland Conference would have been passed over. It will be an interesting game this Saturday not only the Hobo Day game but the McNeese-USD.