5 more get off the leaking raft

[89rabbit]

Five more schools got off the leaking raft that is the "new" NCAA D-II. From the Forum:

http://in-forum.com/articles/index.c...section=Sports

UND expresses interest in Big Sky
By Heath Hotzler and Jeff Kolpack,The Forum


Five schools said "yes" by the NCAA's Dec. 1 reclassification deadline to move to Division I: the University of North Florida, Kennesaw State (Ga.), Central Arkansas, New Jersey Institute of Technology and Winston-Salem State (N.C.), said Steve Mallonee, NCAA managing director of Division I. Central Arkansas and Winston-Salem will begin their exploratory years next year. . . .


Not to worry they are being replaced by powerhouses, Schools like: Goldey-Beacom College, Green Mountain College, Holy Family College, North Greenville College, and the University of Sciences in Philadelphia.


It is good to be D-I! 8)

[ActionJack]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

Same story line - from ESPN.com

School would play I-AA football

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press

CONWAY, Ark. -- Central Arkansas University has applied to the NCAA to move from Division II to Division I-AA in football and Division I-A in men's and women's basketball.


UCA President Lu Hardin said the move is a logical one, moving up the athletic programs at the Conway campus as academic programs achieve greater status.


"With enrollment over 10,000 and continued academic excellence, the logical next step is an athletic commitment to move to Division I-AA," Hardin said. "At this point, the first few months are strictly exploratory, but the national opportunities of exposure and perception make this move worth examining."


The university has submitted a $15,000 fee to the NCAA so its application can be processed. A six-month period is to follow, with both UCA and the NCAA looking at issues that would be related to the change in status.


UCA is now a member of the Gulf South Conference, a league that includes several other Arkansas schools.


Arkansas-Pine Bluff is the state's only other Division I-AA school. The state's Division I-A schools are Arkansas, Arkansas State and Arkansas-Little Rock.


There is no attendance requirement for Division I-AA programs, while there is for Division I-A programs. The main difference between Division II and Division I is the number of available scholarships.


Division II football allows 36 scholarships, Division I-AA allows 63 and Division I-A allows 85. Division II basketball receives 10 scholarships, while Division I receives 13.


Central Arkansas would not be eligible immediately for tournaments and football playoffs. After an exploratory year, Central Arkansas would have four transitional years before it became a full Division I-AA member.


Central Arkansas must notify the Gulf South Conference that it is withdrawing from the league by June 30. The school's athletic director, Vance Strange, said the school would play Gulf South football in 2005 and basketball in 2005-2006, but would not be eligible for postseason play.


The move will cost the school an extra $1.5 million, $750,000 for the additional scholarships and the rest for raises in coaching salaries and travel expenses. Hardin said that money would have to come from outside sources.

[Mike_H]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

Thread titles like the one you chose makes things a little confusing for the rest of us. I thought this step was about moving forward, not running away from something. And the list of schools that are moving up does not exactly give a ringing endorsement to the move either. Anyone else looking forward to the home and home with New Jersey Institute of Technology? Can you explain the difference to me between Winstom-Salem and Green Mountain? And no, using Earl Monroe does not count. I think you need to change the title of this thread. It does not reflect well on you.

[89rabbit]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

Mike we are on the smack board, just having a little fun with our UNO and USD friends. :

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

I hate to raise (gulp) facts on the smack board, but think way, way back to two years ago and you may recall that the deterioration of DII was part of the rationale for SDSU moving to DI.

As evidence of that continuing deterioration, keep an eye on the proposal, coming from two of the most important conferences in DII to reduce football to 24 scholarships from the current 36. That's not exactly where SDSU wants to be. And every Oklahoma Panhandle State that joins DII makes that sort of reduction in scholarships (costs) more likely in football and other sports. Keep in mind that with every school like SDSU that moves out, the small school, low budget, movement gains more power. Schools with bigger athletic budgets move out. Schools with small athletic budgets move in. Which way do you think the scholarship numbers are going to go?

So I'm not sure where anybody got the idea that SDSU wasn't trying to move away from the deterioration of DII, a trend that has been underway for many years now.

[jackmd]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

Thread titles like the one you chose makes things a little confusing for the rest of us. I thought this step was about moving forward, not running away from something. And the list of schools that are moving up does not exactly give a ringing endorsement to the move either. Anyone else looking forward to the home and home with New Jersey Institute of Technology? Can you explain the difference to me between Winstom-Salem and Green Mountain? And no, using Earl Monroe does not count. I think you need to change the title of this thread. It does not reflect well on you.

Nice try but the title of the thread means little and the defection from DII means a lot.  Read the article from ESPN.com again.  There is no reason for all the DII and lower division sympathizers to be so anxious.  Things are headed in a direction that suits you.  

Not trying to be overly philosophical, but here is my  take.  (this may be painful for some of you, can't say I didn't warn you)

At SDSU there is a desire to emulate the performance of similar institutions throughout our great nation and more recently, our region (aha!!).  Being a land grant university, with a desire to be the flagship, it was therefore necessary for us to make the move to DI.  Why?  It helps protect our honor and reputation while allowing us to set and pursue (and eventually achieve) higher goals.

An unfortunate but necessary consequence of this emulation has been the resultant jealousy as expressed by those who are worried about what they might lose or what they might not have the opportunity to gain.

Look at it this way, if we had not made the decision to embark on this noble journey we would be back on the "raft" with those institutions and their supporters who now must exhaust their collective resources to protect what they have (this leads to jealousy) as opposed to pursuing what we desire.  Our aggression in this matter has elicited the expected result, jealousy from some, envy from others, and a desire to emulate us from those who recognize the potential benefits.

Progress and change in all areas of society is met with a nearly similar response in almost all instances.  Early on the jealousy and envy from those with limited good dominates.  This is okay.  After all, its the recognition of these limits the eventually leads to emulation.  As those who feel "left behind" by this progress have further opportunities to recognize what they currently have and what they can gain from it, that emotion of jealousy, envy and emulation will be converted to accomplishment.

Sorry for the discourse, but this is how I look at this move to DI.  Some of you may ridicule me for calling the move noble or honorable, but I see it that way.  The opportunity to send my children, their children, your children, etc.. to a DI university; the increase in scholarship dollars and faculty salaries; the improvement in quality of life that follows the move to DI athletics; all of these are noble pursuits and will eventually be added to the honorable traits that make SDSU the eventual true flagship university in SD.

(some of you may recognize this as Arestotelian, blame that on my philosophy instructors at SDSU)

Next we can discuss the major paradigm shifts in society and science and try to compare them to SDSU's move to DI, sound like fun?

[Mike_H]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

"So I'm not sure where anybody got the idea that SDSU wasn't trying to move away from the deterioration of DII, a trend that has been underway for many years now. "

Quotes from the Athletic Director and the President of the Univeristy.

Holy crap, jackmd, that was your most self rightous quote yet! Nice job!

[goyotes]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

And I was thinking some more football coaches resigned. My bad.

[jackmd]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

And I was thinking some more football coaches resigned.  My bad.

This is good, nice reply, tough to beat.

[jackmd]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

Holy crap, jackmd, that was your most self rightous quote yet! Nice job!  

You could have called me worse, others have. Instead, this is exactly what I would expect from you.  I look forward to meeting you face-to-face.  We'll have a ball. It will be the old adage, agree to disagree.

[OK_Jackrabbit]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

"So I'm not sure where anybody got the idea that SDSU wasn't trying to move away from the deterioration of DII, a trend that has been underway for many years now. "

Quotes from the Athletic Director and the President of the Univeristy.

You're kidding, aren't you Mike_H? You never heard anyone involved in this decision say anything about the deterioration of DII before today on this bulletin board. Seriously?

I don't live in South Dakota (but I wish I did). I spent a weekend in Brookings during the debate over this issue. During 48 hours on the ground, I managed to a) talk to Fred Oien about this at a game; b) read a column in the Brookings paper that dealt with this very issue, and; c) ask other people about what I had read and had them explain it to me further.

Now that may be the only column anyone wrote about the deterioration of DII. That may be the only time Fred Oien spoke in a public place about it. It could be the only time those professors, donors, athletic department officials, alumni and others I spoke to mentioned the problems with DII and the role they played in the decision to go to DI. But I seriously doubt it.

By the way, here's a little more information about the DII schools that were mentioned as having decided to move up. I just looked up their enrollments.

Central Arkansas: 10,071
Kennesaw State: 18,000 (DII MBB national champs 2004)
U of N Florida: 14,120
New Jersey Inst. of Tech: 9,000
Winston-Salem State: 4,805

Two of those schools have larger enrollment than SDSU. All but one is bigger than USD. Kennesaw won a national championship in DII last year.

[jackmd]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

As an aside, we beat Kennasaw St last year.  The problem, we beat them in the first week of the season instead of the last.

Oh yeah, as for "jumping off the raft", Mike didn't hear that part earlier because he didn't want to. Now that the raft is at least half full (of water that is) his ears are wide-open .

[89rabbit]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

By the way, here's a little more information about the DII schools that were mentioned as having decided to move up. I just looked up their enrollments.

Central Arkansas: 10,071
Kennesaw State: 18,000 (DII MBB national champs 2004)
U of N Florida: 14,120
New Jersey Inst. of Tech: 9,000
Winston-Salem State: 4,805

Two of those schools have larger enrollment than SDSU. All but one is bigger than USD. Kennesaw won a national championship in DII last year.

Here is the enrollment of the schools that are moving in to replace them.

Golden Beacom College 1,700
Green Mountain College 700
Holy Family University 2,530 (they are the "Big" one)
North Greenville College 1,501
University of Science in Philadelphia 2,004

[89rabbit]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

Can you explain the difference to me between Winstom-Salem and Green Mountain? And no, using Earl Monroe does not count.

I guess the quick answer is that one is public, good sized and moving to D-I. The other is private, small and moving to D-II.

Winston-Salam State: Enrollment 4,895

Green Mountain: Enrollment 700

[Mike_H]

Re: 5 more get off the leaking raft

OK: Of course it has been discussed, but always quickly followed by something along the lines of "...but this is a move TOWARD the future..." or "..really what happens in D1 is what we are focusing on..". It's all been part of the sales job they are doing.

It sure has been fun to watch you guys get all fired up about this again, though!